Shock! Horror! Religious people believe their religion!

Half of British Muslims want gay sex to be made illegal, according to a new poll.

The survey for Channel 4 found there was a “chasm” between views among the British Muslim community and mainstream opinion in this country.

It found 52 per cent of Muslims said homosexuality should not be legal in Britain.

Of more than 1,000 British Muslims polled by ICM, 39 per cent agreed “wives should always obey their husbands”, and 31 per cent said it was acceptable for a man to have more than one wife.

I’m pretty sure that all flavours of Islam believe the following three things:

1) Homosexuality should be illegal.

2) Wives should obey their husbands.

3) A man may have more than one wife.

The finding is thus that people who believe in a religion believe in a religion.

As to what we do about it we ignore them. Just as we do the Jews about not mixing meat and dairy, the Jehovah’s Witnesses about not having a blood transfusion and so on.

41 thoughts on “Shock! Horror! Religious people believe their religion!”

  1. The difference being, is that if these guys reach a sufficient demographic they will ban/allow all that shit.

    Cheeseburgers are legal and available (albeit not wildly popular) in Israel, blood transfusions are legal almost everywhere, it would never occur to the JWs to call for them to be banned to non-JWs, and it’s been some time since Christianity was widely practising its method of execution of choice on heretics, witches, and so on.

    It’s about the way a religion projects its power on to the culture, and islam does that power projection, political and legal aspect, to a far greater extent than any other religion that is widespread in the west. Perhaps you have to live in/around a western muslim ghetto to appreciate that islam is about far more than freely enjoying the private practice of your own irrational belief system.

  2. Sitting watching the impending Armageddon of media-led promotion of LGBT meeting media-encouraged ‘Anti-islamophobia’ would be worth buying popcorn for if it weren’t about to happen in a place very near us.

    This impending car-crash says everything you need to know about the shipwreck that is ‘multiculturalism’.

    All cultures are not equal. And if they are, why are you trying to ban FGM in Backwardstan?

  3. BiG Has it. These same people want homosexuality made illegal – that means they want to force their beliefs on the rest of us. That’s what illegal means. The JWs don’t, nor do the Jews.

  4. They failed to poll on the truly nasty stuff like:
    All apostates should be killed as should disobedient women and homosexuals.
    The kufaar owe them a living and their laws can be ignored.
    It is legitimate to lie and cheat people not of the approved sect
    The kufaar are cattle, and Jews are monkeys and dogs.
    Women, girls ask to be raped if unescorted and exposing flesh.
    No, I don’t think society can magnanimously overlook these views as they undermine it.

  5. When people say “Islam is a religion of peace”, what they really mean is that lots of Muslims ignore large parts of the Qu’ran. And yes, the Torah and the Bible are similar. We don’t have Jews stoning Rabbis daughters that go on the game.

    And you can make all your “in context” statements you like. When it’s written in black and white in a holy book and without context, that’s the word of your god.

  6. The difference is that the Koran is the exact word of God, according to every Muslim everywhere as far as I can tell, and therefore is perfect in every way, whereas the Jewish and Christian texts are written by humans, albeit perhaps inspired by God, and therefore have plenty of wiggle room.

  7. We are already ignoring them and that will be our downfall.

    When there are 40 million of them their bullshit will rule.

    You can ignore them but they aren’t going to ignore you.

  8. The Catholic Church is against abortion and against homosexuality. In many countries they work(ed) to keep these things banned. The muscular (African) bit of Anglicanism is against homosexuality and works to Keep (get) it banned. Up until recently a Catholic could not become monarch.

    What we really mean is the Muslims in Britain are a step or two behind the modern belief system.

  9. I seem to recall reading a stat that 12% believed that blasphemers should be put to death. I don’t recall anything similar amongst other religions.

  10. Imagine the Guardian had a poll suggested 52% of whites want homosexuality banned. Twitter would meltdown.

  11. So Much For Subtlety

    Rob – “Imagine the Guardian had a poll suggested 52% of whites want homosexuality banned. Twitter would meltdown.”

    I would imagine that 52% of them probably do. Or something close to it. Thatcher’s ban on promoting homosexuality in the classroom wasn’t exactly unpopular.

    In fact I would think all three of those propositions are not far off majority support in the UK. Maybe even the four wives bit – assuming anyone is dumb enough.

    The difference is that the majority of Christians accept that the SJWs elites, posing as the voice of the nation, will treat them with contempt and vote to oppose their beliefs while a significant percentage of Muslims do not.

    Who are the bigger idiots?

  12. Haven’t seen any gangs of Jehovah’s Witnesses patrolling Tower Hamlets lately, beating people up for drinking alcohol or harassing women for being “inappropriately” dressed. I’ll happily ignore them and their beliefs so long as they reciprocate.

  13. So Much For Subtlety

    Bloke in Germany – “The difference being, is that if these guys reach a sufficient demographic they will ban/allow all that shit.”

    You mean like the Left? Tell me what Brendan Eich is doing these days?

    “it’s been some time since Christianity was widely practising its method of execution of choice on heretics, witches, and so on. ”

    Actually as a formerly-Christian secular society we tend not to notice when Christianity imposes itself on us. Once the Christian part is silenced anyway. Take monogamy. We only insist on it because of the Christians – and it is unlikely it will survive another generation. But it is part of the warp and weft of British society even if it is not obviously in-your-face Christian.

  14. @SMFS,

    Yes, largely agreed. Hence the gay stuff until quite recently, laws against blasphemy (still with us), laws against the practice of witchcraft, Sunday closing laws and so on. Monogamy as practised today is Roman in origin and would likely have become the norm even if Constantine had chosen differently. Post-Christian (nonemphasised) is a great place to be. There aren’t yet any Post-Anything elses for comparison, but I suspect Post-Hindu would be pretty cool as well, and Post-Islamic at least an improvement on what went before.

    I don’t know who Brendan Eich is and I’m not going to look him up on Wikipedia.

  15. I’d be interested to know who was surveyed here. My experience of the ragheads from the boonies, which is much the same as saying the traditionalists, are they’re Pakis who just happen to be living in that part of Pakistan, happens to have a London postal code. Chances of getting one give you the time of day, let alone a coherent answer to a serious question’s remote. Chances even understood you’ve asked the question, equally poor..

  16. Islam like Christianity and Buddhism wants its followers to follow the teachings of its founders.
    Jesus and Buddha did not kill or rape anyone and I am not saying anymore on the subject.

  17. Thatcher’s ban on promoting homosexuality in the classroom wasn’t exactly unpopular.

    I’m as staunchly liberal as they come, and I cannot see any valid reason why homosexuality should be promoted in a classroom. I’m not entirely sure why a ban is necessary, but the implication that lifting of the ban would mean homosexuality would be promoted in classrooms didn’t sit well with me.

  18. People will insist on misusing the “religion of peace” saying. Put it in context ! Effectively what is meant is that when the whole world has been converted to islam, then there will be peace. before that though, it is war and religiously sanctioned war at that includes using any form of deception you wish to carry out…against non-believers.

    And Islam isn’t just a religion, it is a form of fascist theocracy with a religion tacked on.

  19. “when the whole world has been converted to islam, then there will be peace.”

    Except for the Sunnis killing the Shias and vice versa. And both killing the Almadis.

    Of all the stupid pathetic deceits which are common in public life today, I think the “Religion of Peace” one is the worst.

  20. Yeah, I know you’re a cunt, Paul, you don’t have to keep reminding me.

    Writing that script was the best decision I’ve ever made.

  21. Actually, point 3 is: After a time of war where lots of men have been killed and there are lots of unsupported widows, men who can support more than one woman should marry those widows along with their existing wife in order to support said widow.

    You have to be already married
    You have to be able to support more than one woman
    You have to marry a war widow

  22. Can’t you support widows without expecting them to put out?

    The point of polygamy in warlike, tribal societies is well understood. Practise it or die out.

    The point of monogamy is that even those couples in which occasional straying or outright open-relationships are tolerated or three/more-somes indulged in, you aren’t likely to get the consent of all three parties for a “death do us part” marriage. For those that really do want to go that way, good luck to them, but they are so few that we don’t need a legal definition or structure for such relationships (just as the legal structure for traditional one of each sex relationships is falling into disuse).

  23. Bloke in Germany
    April 11, 2016 at 7:53 am

    The difference being, is that if these guys reach a sufficient demographic they will ban/allow all that shit.

    It’s about the way a religion projects its power on to the culture, and islam does that power projection, political and legal aspect, to a far greater extent than any other religion that is widespread in the west. Perhaps you have to live in/around a western muslim ghetto to appreciate that islam is about far more than freely enjoying the private practice of your own irrational belief system.”

    Christians try to *force* their views on others all the time – and others try to force back – abortion, gay marriage, homosexuality is a sin, you may *not* have more than one wife (we fought a small genocidal war over this in the US), divorce, tithing (in the UK), prayer in school (in the US). Our broadcast industry has a state censor – something that should, by a strict reading of the Constitution, be *illegal*. Try walking down a Hasidic neighborhood in a short skirt. Hell, there are *Buddhist* countries that repress non-Buddhist religions. Hell, *atheism* has had a pretty bloody history in the 20th century.

    Islam is not unique in the modern world. Its dangerous *right now*, it wasn’t in the not so distant past (and Christianity was – residential schools anyone? – and then it was in the further distant past.

    There is absolutely nothing unique about Islam. Its got the exact same violent tenants as Christianity. The problem right now is a confluence of events that acerbate the normal tendency to violence that is inherent in humanity in general.

    We’ve got to figure out how to deal with *that* and its not got an easy solution. Bombing the shit out of them isn’t working and it doesn’t look like letting them in to do whatever the hell they want is going to either. Maybe some middle area? Like let some in and when they misbehave smack the fuck out of the noses – the same as any nation would do to its own citizens.

  24. “anon
    April 11, 2016 at 10:51 am

    Islam like Christianity and Buddhism wants its followers to follow the teachings of its founders.
    Jesus and Buddha did not kill or rape anyone and I am not saying anymore on the subject.”

    *God’s* the founder of Christianity and he’s killed a ton of people directly. He even directed the death of his own kid.

    Job was no picnic either.

  25. ‘We’ve got to figure out how to deal with *that* and its not got an easy solution.’

    Of course it is easy. Don’t allow them in the country.

    Every one carries a book that says they should kill you. When one does, the entire lot should be charged with conspiracy.

    The West has lost its will to live.

  26. Haven’t seen any gangs of Jehovah’s Witnesses patrolling Tower Hamlets lately

    No, but they man guard posts outside Glaswegian stations.

    I don’t know who Brendan Eich is

    Founder of Mozilla: yay! Inventor of JavaScript: boo (hiss)! Founder of Brave, the ad-blocking browser: yay!

    Contributed money to the California Prop 8 campaign against legalising gay marriage: sack the witch!

  27. Tim W

    As to what we do about it we ignore them.

    Your assumption often seems to be that we should ignore any problem if the solution is likely to involve state action and expenditure. Just as Chris Snowdon tries to deny that added sugar is harmful, you here seem to deny that there’s a problem with muslim non-integration – because an inveterate statist like Trevor Phillips wants action. Bizarrely — such are the convolutions of libertarianism — you align yourself here with the do-nothing multi-culturalists!

    I am all for limiting and reducing state expenditure and action, but not if it potentially involves national suicide. Moreover, ‘investment’ in programmes to encourage muslim integration are unlikely to succeed. So the best thing we can do with muslims in the UK is to provide significant financial incentives for them to re-settle in muslim jurisdictions. More expensive than doing nothing, but far better than the alternatives.

  28. ‘And my Quaker mother should be charged with conspiracy with the Branch Davidians?’

    The government murdered the Branch Davidians. If your Quaker mother (or any of your mothers) is a Democrat, then the charge might be valid.

  29. “The difference is that the Koran is the exact word of God, according to every Muslim everywhere as far as I can tell, and therefore is perfect in every way, whereas the Jewish and Christian texts are written by humans, albeit perhaps inspired by God, and therefore have plenty of wiggle room.”

    There are plenty of Christians within a stone’s throw from me that disprove that statement. Since personal knowledge isn’t good enough for some people then they can simply look into how many people believe the Earth is 6000 years old because God says so in the Bible.

    As to the cultural values being different I’m seeing a lot of bad suggestions. Split your immigrants up and have them integrate into society. The adults might not abandon their ideals but the children will move toward the mainstream British views.

    Or, we could actually try to come up with a solution to the Syrian mess that doesn’t involve more bombs. Then they can go home and no one has to integrate.

  30. Integration is significantly slowed down though when they keep going back to their original country to bring back brides.
    Usually 2nd and 3rd generations become increasingly westernised, but that process is being broken by a bringing over more people from the old country.

  31. BniC,

    That will indeed be a short term problem. In the long term shouldn’t we expect these immigrants to become just as British as the Anglos or the Saxons?

  32. Agammamon,

    We’ve got to figure out how to deal with *that* and its not got an easy solution. Bombing the shit out of them isn’t working and it doesn’t look like letting them in to do whatever the hell they want is going to either. Maybe some middle area? Like let some in and when they misbehave smack the fuck out of the noses – the same as any nation would do to its own citizens.

    The answer is industrialisation. Look at the bits of the world that behave like Europe did in the 14th century and the difference is industrialisation. Back then, the way you got richer was stealing the land of the guy next door. Then we industrialised and eventually ended up competing by making the best gin, lingerie or motor cars. We’ve stopped fighting each other in Europe because arable land just isn’t worth the blood and treasure any longer.

    What connects Afghanistan and Iraq is that they are not particularly industrialised. One grows crops, the other, oil. The way you get richer in Iraq is stealing oil fields. It’s why the Iraq and Afghanistan war didn’t work for “nation building”. The idea was based on how we dealt with Germany, but Germany had been in that messy state of transition for decades beforehand, with the post-war Weimar Republic. It was at a level of industrialisation where democracy could thrive. And Japan was roughly the same. Both of these countries built aircraft, cars and tanks. Germany had a car and film industry after WW1. How many cars have the Saudis designed?

    When people complain about how we turn a blind eye to what happens in Bahrain, that’s because we should. Whoever is in charge in most of these places is going to be a cunt. So, you can either have a cunt that likes us, or a cunt that doesn’t. They’re going to do things like the Spanish Inquisition, because their economies are like those under the Spanish Inquisition.

  33. @Liberal Yank, the youth go the other way – they are more conservative than their parents. Hanif Kureishi somewhat prophetically pointed this out about 20 years ago.

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