Well, not so much actually

This morning Ken Livingstone said “Hitler was supporting Zionism… Let’s remember when Hitler won his election in 1932, his policy then was that Jews should be moved to Israel”.

Just reading Timothy Snyder’s book about this and no, it wasn’t Israel.

It was “anywhere other than Europe” really, with Madagascar and Siberia both talked about. It was the Poles who were arguing that it should be Israel.

26 thoughts on “Well, not so much actually”

  1. Good. So now it’s been cleared up that Hitler should be taken at his 1933 word.

    Glad we’ve finally been able to clear up the whole non-Marxist Socialist thing then, after 80-odd years.

  2. So Much For Subtlety

    Richard – “I did like the comment over at Guido’s, that Mel Brooks should make a movie of the Labour party.”

    Blazing Saddles or Young Frankenstein?

  3. @smfs – I think that he and others have just convinced themselves that saying something that could be right out of Der Sturmer but replacing “jew” with “zionist” is not anti-semitic. Which isn’t racism anyway, cos judaism is a religion not a race, apparently. However, criticism of Islam is, of course, racist, because reasons (and votes).

    Logic by Pretzel…

  4. Its absolutely fantastic watching London/Westminster Labour (now without its most proficient political operators) fall apart like an university debating team.

  5. @Rhyds, it’s also fascinating watching this happen in a post-Guido environment.

    Guido seems to be smelling a touch of newt blood in the water this afternoon 🙂

  6. Yes, Guido seems to be sitting on top of a mountain of evence of Labour being anti-semitic, and it seems that the party has no clue how to deal with it

  7. @rhyds, I love the way he feeds it into the news cycle to keep it floating on top.

    Particularly releasing juicy bits on Tuesdays so that CallmeDave can have fun at PMQ’s

  8. Love to see a survey of London residents. “Have the accusations of anti-Semitism against the Labour party made you more or less likely to vote for their candidate in the London Mayoral Election?”

  9. Not got much to add to the chatter here other than I deeply, deeply, deeply dislike Ken Livingstone.

    And he’s pig ignorant too. The madagascar plan was never seriously considered by the Nazis. It was just one of their wheezes they came up, like the invasion of Britain.

    Tim – Is Bloodlands the Snyder book you’re referring too?

  10. I hope Brillo gets to interview the Newt and ask him questions such as “So on what other points do you agree with Hitler?”… and if he answers “none”, “So, you’re no longer into the State control of industry?”.

  11. No, read that a bit back. This is more about the politics of the various attitudes toward Jews and slavs etc.

  12. Bloke in Costa Rica

    So essentially we can conclude that the Left is OK with ethnic cleansing as long as it’s Yids. OK, duly noted.

  13. Strange that our totally corrupt Establishment which TW himself declared was being anti Semitic over Philip Green and BHS has revved up this fairly localised row about anti-semitic remarks (which has, in fact, been due processed by the Labour Party fairly quickly) just when it became clear that the Establishment had allowed disgusting class warfare remarks about dead Liverpool football supporters to be perpetuated over nearly three decades.

  14. Bloke in Costa Rica

    SJW: Livingstone’s been allowed to get away with his toxic Jew-hatred for years. That he’s finally overstepped the mark during a period of enhanced scrutiny does not mean he’s suffered any real consequences in the past. And unless they’re going to kick him out entirely he’ll be slinking back.

  15. So Much For Subtlety

    abacab – “I think that he and others have just convinced themselves that saying something that could be right out of Der Sturmer but replacing “jew” with “zionist” is not anti-semitic.”

    Well sure. But if he had three brain cells wouldn’t he realise that this is not the way to convince people? What is the point of being so idiotic? Is he really that stupid or is he just so alienated from normal people he does not realise how it sounds?

  16. It seems like everyone his misunderstood this.

    Livingstone was countering the argument that opposing Israel or Zionism makes you a racist. He was saying that Hitler (history’s greatest racist) supported the idea of Israel himself for a time. If you look at the policies of white supremacy groups (such as the BNP) you’ll see a common theme that they all support keeping the Jewish people in the state of Israel rather than having to live with them.

    I suppose it’s a bit of a complicated argument to make in a radio phone in – it would have been better to not bother and just accept that the suggestion that Israel’s population should be deported to another continent is pretty much as racist and anti-semitic as you can get.

  17. “it would have been better to not bother and just accept that the suggestion that Israel’s population should be deported to another continent is pretty much as racist and anti-semitic as you can get.”

    Yes, but he can’t do that can he, because he no doubt agrees with Naz Shah on that point, if truth be told. Plus of course Naz Shah is a Muslim so by definition can’t be racist or anti-semitic one jot. So he has to defend her, and thats were you start getting into trouble.

    The whole thing is a delightful case of a million Leftist Anti-Semitic pigeons coming home to roost. Couldn’t happen to a nicer bunch of arseholes.

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