Well, yes, obviously

Britain is “obliged” to accept European Union laws and judgments, according to an official report slipped out by ministers ahead of the formal start of the referendum campaign.

The 96-page paper, which was published without fanfare, was described by Brexit campaigners as the “Government report No.10 does not want you to read”.

The document highlights the fact that Britain has to adopt EU law and accept the rulings of the European Court of Justice.

Want to be in a club you’ve got to agree to the rules of the club.

The question is, do you want to be in any club which elects a fat German socialist as its President? Obviously not, so we’re leaving, right?

97 thoughts on “Well, yes, obviously”

  1. Q: Who is the president of the EU?
    A: There isn’t one. You getting confused with the head of the civil service.

  2. Indeed the EU currently has 3 presidents: the Commission, Council & Parliament all have Presidents none of which are elected by universal suffrage.

    However you are mistaken to equate the Commission with the Civil Services. The former is a body of equal status with the Council and the Parliament unlike the latter which is merely the servant of the executive

  3. Presumably this is the same ‘obligation’ France has, which is why the French authorities shrug when farmers burn British lambs or wine producers attack tankers carrying wine from Spain.

  4. The speaker of the UK parliament, the head of the UK civil service, nor the prime minister are elected by universal suffrage. The UK is still a democracy.

    The Commission gets its power from decisions taken by the Council of Ministers and MEPs. All of whom are elected.

    The EU is under democratic control – it does not seek to become a democratic state, a democracy

  5. Rob, those quarrels get sorted out quite quickly now. Would they be quelled so easily if the UK wasn’t in the EU?

  6. So Much For Subtlety

    The question is, do you want to be in any club which elects a fat German socialist as its President?

    Depends. Is his surname Hapsburg or is he a member of the Hell’s Angels?

  7. The Steve impersonator returns once again sans the wit and sense.

    The E-Spew is under democratic control? I hope they are paying you well to make so big an idiot of yourself.

    I wonder if this clown IS an EU paid troll? The have a huge anti-Brexit budget. Hiring some evil little twerp who works cheap for a few lines of low-key treason sounds feasible to me. The creep reads a few columns and tries his pitch.

    He could be a BluLab hireling but all their spare cash will have to go the the Post Office to cover the EU propaganda being sent back to them “Freepost”.

  8. Sorry, I know the anti-EU faith can be strong. Just thought I’d through a few facts your way. The EU is the worst way to run European affairs except the alternatives.

  9. Every act of conscious learning requires the willingness to suffer an injury to one’s self-esteem. That is why young children, before they are aware of their own self-importance, learn so easily; and why older persons, especially if vain or important, cannot learn at all. -Thomas Szasz, author, professor of psychiatry (15 Apr 1920-2012)

  10. Another one they clearly aren’t paying by the word.

    If you really believe what you say above you probably need time for your brain cells to recharge between postings.

    All govts are scum and the EU are uber-scum. Go sniff one of their mandated mercury-filled light-bulbs.

  11. Hey–he sneaked in a philosophical quote.

    So Szasz–an outspoken enemy of institutional tyranny –would be on the side of you and your EU paymasters?

    You don’t need to worry about learning chum–you got nothing to learn with.

  12. The Commission is an EQUAL partner in EU governance structures, it is not subservient to either Council or Parliament and of course is unelected. It is also the only body that can initiate or remove legislation in the EU.

  13. “The EU is the worst way to run European affairs except the alternatives.”
    Ah, so it’s better than free negotiations between sovereign states? Pretty much the way the rest of the world works?
    So that’ll be why it has faster growth and lower unemployment then. Oh, wait….

  14. Steve said: “The EU is the worst way to run European affairs except the alternatives.”

    Only if the organisation has designs on becoming a nation.

    Independent nation states would be worse?
    Free trade area would be worse?

  15. Alex – the UK has low unemployment and is not in the euro. What’s the problem?

    Gareth – “ever closer union between the *peoples* of Europe” – the isnt and will never be a superstate

  16. False Steve – now I know why the real deal had to change his moniker – Choose another identity rather than besmirch one of the finest commentators this blog has yet seen, forsooth!

    I think the also excellent Mr Ecks makes the point far more forcefully than I ever could – you don’t truly believe this shit do you?

  17. False Steve

    ‘The EU is under democratic control – it does not seek to become a democratic state, a democracy’

    What does this mean – it’s under democratic control? What component – the Parliament? The Commission? The Council?

    ‘The EU is the worst way to run European affairs except the alternatives.’

    Really? The EU is a demographic and economic disaster zone, enfeebled and vulnerable to attack from terrorists and sovereign states, enmeshed in cumbersome bureaucracy which serves noone’s interest svae the nomenklatura introducing it – utterly unable to respond to the weight of crises engulfing it and led by people who would scarcely be recognised by 1 in a million Europeans – not sure what they have sold you but you need to seriously consider a refund…..

    Even if parts of it are nominally democratic, it’s modus operandi is far from it – although I can see what you are saying – the closest state in terms of political structure to it, the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea, might be viewed as a democracy from your perspective as well.

  18. The Council sets the agenda and is the fulcrum of policy. All members are elected.

    Many EU economies are a mess. But the UK is the most vibrant. Why fix what ain’t broke

  19. Here’s some homework.

    Name one instance where the Commission has over ruled the Council of Ministers

    Name one thing Jean-Claude Juncker has done.

    As this goes to the heart of what the EU is, these should be easy for anyone who gets angry about the EU

  20. Steve said: “Gareth – “ever closer union between the *peoples* of Europe” – the isnt and will never be a superstate”

    [Citation needed]

    Perhaps you could provide me with a roadmap showing when and where EU integration ends.

  21. What’s the wage rate Steve? Are they still paying in silver these days?

    Thanks to the net at least we don’t have to walk to the door and find out why you are there before telling you to piss off

  22. Ersatz Steve: Name one thing Jean-Claude Juncker has done.

    He appears to do fuck all. So why do we need him again?

  23. Ersatz Steve: Name one thing Jean-Claude Juncker has done.

    As this goes to the heart of what the EU is, these should be easy for anyone who gets angry about the EU.

    He appears to do fuck all. So why do we need him again?

    Brexiteers think he’s a dictator with unchecked powers who does nothing.

    And which doesn’t answer the question.

  24. Ersatz Steve, so why do we need to be members of a club where we pay people to do fuck all?

    Best off out of it all together and use the 55m quid per day for something more worthwhile.

  25. Brexiteers Steve, think you are a paid hack whose lackluster collection of half-witted helpful hints stink.

    “Why tinpot tyranny is a good thing” by the half-awake pundit.

    At least try to earn your money you loafing deadbeat. Guardian writers have more sense of shame and a better work ethic than you.

  26. Steve the Invincible

    Henry.

    -Advantages of the EU-
    Deep free trade backed up with a strong, relatively quick moving court
    Rules banning harmful stuff like state subsidies, picking winners, skewed public procurement
    An affirmation of liberal democracy and economics that helps calm passions in places like the Balkans
    Leading the world on climate change
    A policy on migration (sadly this policy was broken by Merkel acting unilaterally)
    European arrest warrant
    A stronger voice at the WTO and G20

    -Downsides-
    CAP
    Regional policy
    Some corruption
    Overpaid MEPs

    – Beside the point because not part of the EU-
    The euro

    On balance, a good deal. Could be better if the UK had ever engaged properly

  27. EAW, Climate Change, the Balkans..?!!

    I was about to suggest total imbecile rather than invincible but – OK, the penny drops: nice one – good trolling…:)

  28. Steve the conquerable

    ‘Deep free trade backed up with a strong, relatively quick moving court’ – Partially true – I’d query for many of the businesses that have no export dimension and no plans to export into Europe whether the weight of regulations is worth the bother but concede you have at least a vaguely cogent point here

    Rules banning harmful stuff like state subsidies, picking winners, skewed public procurement’ – Rules which are flouted every day, both on the subsidies side and the procurement side, as even the most cursory analysis of news on either procurement or subsidy would reveal. Having rules which only you and maybe a couple of others regard while half the club flagrantly flout them is not really a recommendation.

    ‘An affirmation of liberal democracy and economics that helps calm passions in places like the Balkans’

    This argument is arguably the most grotesque of them all – I would not mention the EU in conjunction with the Balkans lest the ghost of one of the victims of Srebrenica comes up and murders you, as they were murdered with the Uu’s explicit approval…..

    ‘Leading the world on climate change’ – destroying our industry by loading costs on to it that our major competitors don’t – effectively deindustrialising the continent – this by you is a good thing?

    ‘A stronger voice at the WTO and G20’ – we don’t have an independent voice – unlike it should be said Norway and Switzerland who both have independent representation at these forums…..

    I find your arguments less than compelling – ironically given it is likely to collapse anyway in two to three decades time under its own sclerosis I think we should stay in because we will be in a position to link up with some other sensible countries in a smaller, looser Union (Finland, Denmark, Austria, Germany and some other, mainly the Scandinavian and Eastern ones) and we also avoid being scapegoated for its failure by the Europhiles….

  29. Ersatz, mentally-ill Steve (Dickie, Trent or whatever your name is)

    Deep free trade backed up with a strong, relatively quick moving court
    Britain quite capable of this outside the EU

    Rules banning harmful stuff like state subsidies, picking winners, skewed public procurement
    Bwahahahahahaaaaaa! Pull the other one.

    An affirmation of liberal democracy and economics that helps calm passions in places like the Balkans
    Suggest you go an read up on what a clusterfuck the Bosnian/Serbian/Croatian war was. Oh, and Kosovo?
    Now EU imperialism looks east towards Ukraine.

    Leading the world on climate change
    A fucking hoax and a con.

    A policy on migration (sadly this policy was broken by Merkel acting unilaterally)
    Yer, right! The policy seems to consist of let ’em all in then pay the Turks to take ’em back after which they can just walk across the borders because Turkey will be included in Schengen area. Great idea that one.

    European arrest warrant
    Another clusterfuck of an agreement. Don’t go taking photos of airplanes near Greek airports or take your kid out of an NHS hospital for better treatment elsewhere. And this: http://annaraccoon.com/2012/03/21/portuguese-trial-by-media-graham-mitchell-and-the-eaw/

    A stronger voice at the WTO and G20 Bollocks on stilts.

    A good deal you say. Could be better if the UK had engaged properly, you say. All the rest have “engaged” and look how that has turned out. Billy Smart could have done a better job than the bunch of clowns in Brussels/Strasbourg.

  30. Steve the Invincible

    Broken_Van

    Yes the single market could go further, especially on services. We agree, more EU needed on this.

    So you think the EU should have more power to curb state subsidy etc. Good idea. But some is better than nothing right?

    Of course European countries screwed up the military side of the Balkans in the 90s. But as the EU has no army or foreign policy I don’t see how that’s the EU’s fault. But now, the EU’s soft power is working.

    Question, why does Brexit and climate change denial go together? Our host Tim is an exception, but he is are rarity. It’s a mindset I guess.

    Switzerland is in Schengen, contributes to the EU budget, adopts EU directives without any means of influence. Is that what you want?

    Ah, the kicker, you want to stay in to reform the EU. Well, me too. If only the UK had been engaged over the last 43 years, imagine how much better the EU could have been. Maybe we could have prevented the euro from happening.

  31. Brazen lies and bullshit.

    Shamed into action Steve-o?

    “Deep free trade backed up with a strong, relatively quick moving court”

    Grotesque protectionism outside Europe damaging developing countries and everyone wanting their products. An ossified, tyrannical system of courts and laws who will try to force their Roman –“guilty unless you prove yourself innocent” shit on us–with the assistance of domestic scum and weasels like you–assuming you are British rather than a euro-trash special who can speak English.

    ” Rules banning harmful stuff like state subsidies, picking winners, skewed public procurement”

    Rules that aren’t worth shit and are ignored across the south of Europe with the classic Gallic shrug. EU rules are applied as various political porkers want them. The EU rules prob mean that the UK handgun ban is EU-illegal. But the UK says nothing about that and neither do the EU zealots in Islamtown. Funny that. You God-damned shifty liar.

    “An affirmation of liberal democracy and economics that helps calm passions in places like the Balkans”

    Brazen lies and bullshit. As has been pointed out several times you 2nd eleven con-man the EU doesn’t give a shit for democracy. And the EU certainly has helped calm the Ukraine never mind the Balkans you Numb-Nut clown.

    ” Leading the world on climate change”

    Leading the world on lying leftist eco-freakery and expensive, unless windmill wanking with ordinary peoples stolen money. You are a paid hack who prob never read this blog until you clocked on to your very temporary job as a paid peddler of lies.

    ” A policy on migration (sadly this policy was broken by Merkel acting unilaterally)”

    Oh Dear–so one stupid marxist cow can drag us all down to Hell. What an advert for “co-operation” eh–Steve the Fuckwit.

    ” European arrest warrant”

    Open tyranny paraded as a positive. Piss on the EAW and on you Stevie-boy. Lets hope your masters use it on you regardless of where you are in Europe to punish you for your lacklustre show and your ripping them off for their 30 pieces. Even Judas actually tried to give value for money by pointing Jesus out. You would have just taken the cash, said “He’s over there somewhere” and done a runner.

    “A stronger voice at the WTO and G20”

    Utter deceit. Piss on most of those international fixers and if a stronger voice is needed ours alone is worth 1000 diluted EU squarks –mostly emerging from French or German arse anyway.

    -Downsides-
    “CAP”
    Colossal waste–impossible to be free of. So long as we are in the EU.

    “Regional policy”

    Open tyranny. A plan to balkanise ancient nations by regionalising them. Cool the Balkans you scummy cunt? Between regions and migrants you are planning to turn us into the fucking Balkans.

    ” Some corruption”

    Some corruption you lying SOB? Enough corruption to sink both fleets at Jutland and every other sea battle of the 20th Century. Accounts not signed for 15 years –that ring a bell?

    ” Overpaid MEPs”

    The bunch of vagrants who migrate across Europe every six months. No not the Roma–who we can also thank the EU for–but MEPS to and fro to Strasbourg. Their wages should be cut but you can be sure if the EU do it it will only be UKIP and the rest of the anti -Euros who get the cut. Because that is how the corrupt dictatorial scum of the EU roll.

    “– Beside the point because not part of the EU-
    The euro”

    Think they won’t try to force us in again?. They prob won’t get the chance before the shit hits the fan economically tho.

    “On balance, a good deal. Could be better if the UK had ever engaged properly”

    On balance you are a lying con-man puke who has been paid to read off an EU crib-sheet .Piss up your leg and play with the steam Steve. If you never heard that before–English being your second language–look it up in your dictionary. And don’t forget to put it on the EU invoice.

    They wouldn’t.

  32. Steve the Invincible

    Brazen

    “Grotesque protectionism outside Europe” – I agree. Let’s work to change it. It would get worse without free trade minded UK

    State aid rules “ignored across the south of Europe” – what we have is decent and much better than nothing. And could be improved. Let’s engage and reform.

    The current state of migration in Europe is what you get when member states do what they like. That’s what you want. I want rules, agreement, some attempt at coherence.

    I can’t be bothered to wade through the rest, strewn as it is with puerile swearing.

    Two pieces of advice:
    Grow up
    Vote yes and campaign for the UK to engage with the EU for the first time ever

  33. Steve the Beatable

    Rumbled – you wouldn’t be from the Channel Islands by any chance – nice change of identit/moniker – I do enjoy the original abusive persona though!

  34. Steve the Invincible

    People seem more interested in me than my arguments.

    I am here to help Brexiteers. I don’t think they’re happy howling at the moon, so I want to take the pain away

  35. Steve whatever

    No offence, but aren’t you just pissing in the wind here?

    You’ve wandered over to a part of the internet where – if you had ever bothered to follow any of the threads here you would know that – (pretty much) no one is going to fall for the nonsense you are coming out with. And those that are already sympathetic to what you are saying are way ahead of you (based on what you’ve contributed so far)?

    I know the EU has cavernously deep pockets – but if you want to persuade gullible people that Vote Remain is the way to go, then wouldn’t it be better “value for money” to your employers if you spouted this nonsense somewhere where people might actually fall for it? Seriously?

    Vote yes and campaign for the UK to engage with the EU for the first time ever

    This just beggars all belief. Do you honestly think for one second that decades of pro EU British civil servants and politicians have not engaged with the EU in Brussels and contributed pretty fully? You really haven’t got the first clue!

  36. I don’t think they’re happy howling at the moon, so I want to take the pain away

    That’s the real Steve, isn’t it..?! It’s a Friday afternoon and we’re being played, aren’t we…

  37. It isn’t Arnold.

    The twat is reading/typing from a prepared script. Engage lightly at first. Keep repeating the same lies over and over–don’t try to reason or argue. Don’t answer arguments–keep repeating the same soundbites again and again. Stay “reasonable” sounding at all times (or you won’t get your cash Steve-o).He’s been told to peddle the “what we have isn’t so bad and we can work to make it better” cock-rot so he keeps working his way back to it. He obviously doesn’t have a long familiarity with this blog or its various commenters. He will have been given this particular assignment by whoever he is reporting to. He has pick the name of a well-known commentator and then set off without making it clear he was A N Other. Probably also a tactic given him by his owners.

    Its going to be a pleasure to vote you and your masters to Hell come June Steve-o.

  38. Steve the Invincible

    I love PF’s comment. “Don’t come here with your facts trying to change our minds, we’re happy with our prejudices, so go away”

  39. Mr Ecks

    I thought he might be the Dr Jekyll to Arnald’s Mr. Hyde – in fairness what you say, albeit expressed more forcefully than I would do, sounds reasonable – does beg the question – do you really think the EU is devious/ spendthrift enough to send a remain campaigner into the comments section here – Holy cow!

  40. It’s definitely not Arnald!

    I’m no big fan of Arnald’s viewpoint, but he’s a million times smarter than this Stevie immitant.

    Although I can’t help thinking that this got to be a Friday afternoon spoof..:)

  41. “The Council sets the agenda and is the fulcrum of policy” Really where and when does this happen. There are certainly Commission policies and agendas which drive the legislative agenda of the Union. There are few examples of Commission overriding the Council policy because that’s not the sequenece of events the Commission proposes and if it can’t get the Council to agree it will queitly drop the policy for a bit and then bring it back, often in a slightly different form until it gets its way.

    Do note that Timmermans withdrew and then rewrote a policy on the Circular Economy that the Council had approved in principle much to the EPs impotent anger.

    The debate is currently going on predictable lines just like 1974. All the advantages are about trade and that is all that the remainers talk about. But those who want their country back are interested in stopping the integration rachet (racket). We will soon no longer have any say in foreign policy, the eurozone countries will eventually demand and get control of taxation policies, we will see a vast expansion of citizens with further Balkan states, Turkey and eventually Ukraine being added to the EU Empire. The EU Army is already under discussion, people have forgotton the Angl French discussions at St Malo which started this off.

    I think the trade is worth having but not at the cost of submerging our national identity into a Europan Empire. Note: we are not talking about a United States of Europe any more. That sort of federal structure might be tolerable with sufficient safeguards, but we are now moving towards an elitocratic empire, with some passing references to democracy

  42. Steve the Invincible

    I’ve been following Tim on Twitter for ages. I like and agree with his stuff on tax avoidance, but have ignored his stuff on the EU.

    Until now. I’m getting worried (or should I say fucking cunting shitting my cunting bastard self) about this Brexit nonsense and want to try anything to wake people up. I do that on Twitter, and all I get are…. professional Russian trolls

    Yeah maybe I’m wasting my time, but what else can I do?

  43. It’s not their money VP–in fact a lot of it is ours.

    Why should they care about the cost of hiring some tit off the dole or some leftist Euro -Uni prick –maybe his first and quite possibly only job, the way the “Mighty Continent” is going.

    The way he writes has an artificial scripted ring to it. Like the script for an evil version of Blue Peter.

    If he was smart he’d wouldn’t be wasting his time here. He’d be preparing for life in what will be left of the EU after we escape.He’d be learning to speak a RoP language and asking his girlfriend to shag a migrant. Cos that way he’ll be used to the rejection when Merkel arranges that for real.

  44. Steve the Invincible

    Arthur

    Indeed, the ministers get what they want. That was the whole stuff about Santer getting the chop in 1999. It was the ministers cutting the Commission down to size after Delors has built it up somewhat.

    And you said “We will soon no longer have any say in foreign policy…”

    Brexiteers have to stop guessing what is going to happen and assuming the worst. There is no EU foreign policy, driving on the right, etc etc etc and it wont change without treaty change

  45. I’m getting worried (or should I say fucking cunting shitting my cunting bastard self)

    Obvious question – as you raise it – why?

  46. and want to try anything to wake people up.

    So, you’ve read what people on here write, and you honestly think people need “waking up”… Srsly…

  47. Steve

    Echoing PF – why are you worried? If it does happen there will certainly be issues but The UK will still be here – we may suffer economic impact for sure – we may not, but what personal stake do you have in ensuring we stay in?

  48. Steve the Invincible

    PF – because an EU without the UK would be more protectionist, more statist, less reform minded, less Atlanticist, less able to project soft power around the continent…

    in short, Europe and the UK would be poorer and less safe

  49. “I’ve been following Tim on Twitter for ages. I like and agree with his stuff on tax avoidance, but have ignored his stuff on the EU.”

    Ok a nice little story. He agrees with part of Tim’s stuff–classic astroturf ploy–and he reads Twitter but not the blog. Which is why we never heard of him until the EU caper kicked off.Why not? ADHD? Autism? Can’t read sentences that are too long for his phone screen?

    “now. I’m getting worried (or should I say fucking cunting shitting my cunting bastard self) about this Brexit nonsense and want to try anything to wake people up”

    And why should you care Numpty? Your “analysis” of the EU and its “benefits” is sound-bite bullshit. Perhaps you have done enough homework to realise Tim supports free markets (which the EU is the arch-enemy of) so you pitch yourself as in sync with that BUT you support the EU. yOU ARE A PAID HACK.

    He could just be a young dumb dickhead who reads Twitter cos its trendy. His superficial analysis of the EU is so dumb that it doesn’t ring true. If young people –esp one who implies he is not a leftist– really are that dumb we are all finished. The only bright side is that treasonous young snot will suffer the longest and thus the most.

  50. VP: ” but what personal stake do you have in ensuring we stay in?”

    Because he’ll get a bonus if the traitors and morons win.

  51. Steve the Invincible

    Again, you are attacking me and not my arguments. Whatever I say you’ll think I’m a troll.

    Stop being lazy and think for yourselves for once.

    Btw, you forgot your homework
    Name one thing the Commission has done that the Council of Minsters disagreed with

    And you have to decide is Juncker a dictator or powerless. If the former, what has he done you don’t like, if the latter, stop howling at that moon

    Anyway, I’m off for pasta and bratwurst topped off with roquefort and paella. Night night.

  52. Enjoy them while you can Chump. Cos you and your EU buddies will be eating Cous-cous and sheep’s -eyes soon enough.

    Note again. All he does is repeat the points he has been given by his bosses. He has no understanding of ANY of these matters. Which is why I say again he is drawing from a script. He doesn’t care about this stuff. It is just a job.

  53. PF/Ecks

    Arnald mangles my handle albeit, as you mention with far greater panache than this guy (Assuming it is a guy – could be a QWERTYUIOLP type) – desperate stuff though – the UK could be headed for the door…..

  54. Steve,

    The end game for the EU was always (from the earliest days) a USE.

    The Euro and Schengen are precursors on that route. The UK is not part of either.

    Ultimately, the eurozone (or maybe an inner core) and the UK (and maybe an outer ring) will have to re-arrange themselves in some useful and constructive way. If we vote to remain in come June, we send the wrong message – we would be hiding our heads in the sand and avoiding the issue.

    No one has to feel less safe (no offence, but you risk sounding like one of these University students clinging to their teddy bear at the thought of losing your safe space?).

    If the UK leaves the EU, we still have masses of existing EU law in place and it will take some considerable time to come up with a new arrangement that benefits us all (and if our EU partners don’t want to enable that process, then what the hell do we think we are doing being in any sort of closely shared sovereignty partnership).

    We need a new arrangement, and which works – it is clear to anyone that the current EU is not working efficiently (neither the Euro nor Schengen currently for example).

    If you are scared of what might that might be, then that’s fine and understandable. You’ll vote Remain, and hope you’re safe.

    But a lot of what you posted earlier on here “in favour” was not dealing at all with the bigger picture, hence, given what you now say about your fears, it looks like you were trying to mislead people.

    more protectionist, more statist, less reform minded, less Atlanticist,

    and which would be the challenge for what followed.

    Europe and the UK would be poorer and less safe

    And you talked about “facts”… Successful currency zones would make us richer. NATO hasn’t done too badly (to date).

  55. Juncker’s a drunk. That’s good enough for me: any organisation that actively chooses a piss artist to head it can fuck off. Same with the Fat German Socialist. I have actually been to Brussels, stood in the Parliament, the Council of Ministers, looked around and thought “I don’t want my country run by these cunts”.

    And that’s it really.

  56. Ecks

    “script”

    i sense you’re right, though I was hoping it was all a lot more interesting than that, ie a jolly good wind up!

  57. Piss on all keyboards.

    I dunno, I thought “Brazen lies and bullshit” was a great handle 🙂

  58. VP–I see the creep as a positive development.

    Look at the way he doesn’t really answer the points scored against him. He just keeps going back to the same crap about Junker and the fucking commission. How he maintains the super-reasonable tone. There’s no blood in him. Cos its a job. And he swallows and spews as his employer dictates. You can hear the training “Now keep your cool. If they call you a cocksucker remember its two nouns combined to elicit a proscribed response . Its nothing personal” (Yeah–I bet they are the kind of “trainers” who would pinch lines from “Roadhouse”)

    That is because he has no skin in the game so to speak. His crap isn’t from someone who–however misguidedly–thinks the EU is important for their future. Typical bullshit:

    “because an EU without the UK would be more protectionist, more statist, less reform minded, less Atlanticist, less able to project soft power around the continent”

    –is that something written with passion for his future? .”Project soft power” FFS…. who fucking talks like that apart from EU apparatchiks?

    Its been written for him and others and he is trying to earn the pennies promised.

    Remember the fact that the EU pukes–as with Trump in the USA –are pulling out all the stops means they are SCARED–shit-scared.

    The idiot’s appearance on here is a GOOD sign.

  59. Ecks

    “positive development / GOOD sign.”

    What’s that saying – “when you start seeing flak, you know you’re over the target” or something like that? I think you’re right..:)

    “pulling out all the stops” – this is early days?

  60. Steve Winning Here

    I see a lot of emotion. I can’t see any substantial arguments.

    Tim. Churchill was a drunk. I rate him. But juncker is just a gopher. Largely irelevant

    Ask me a simple clear question

  61. Steve Winning Here

    Tim If by sharing power with neighbours it makes us richer and safer we should do it. Anyway in a globalised world foreigners have power over the UK anyway

    Ecks €965,4777,9765,09.09 per character

  62. Steve Wanking Here: You aren’t worth it son.

    Sharing power has made us richer ? How is that Junior Softpower –since you are in such an expansive victorious mood– explain that. We pay out 11 bill more than we get. So lets have some real argument instead of your soundbite shite. We’ll wait while you call your boss.

  63. Steve Winning Here

    UK was a basket case in 1973 .now has most vibrant economy in Europe. And you want to change?

  64. Flared trousers were in in 1973 and now they’re not. That down to the EU as well you fuckwit?

    You are not even a lightweight son. Maybe you aren’t a paid troll after all. Who would pay you for dumb bollocks like that? Does your Dad know you are still on the computer?

  65. Steve Winning Here

    Is the UK economy doing OK? Productivity poor but that’s schools. Otherwise it’s fine.

    Anyway keep it up. Jean Claude won’t let me out of the cellar in the Brussels lubyanka until I get my word count over 100000. He’s a bâtarde but I love him

  66. The UK economy–as with the rest of the West–isn’t doing OK.

    The scum of the state owe fortunes beyond what can ever be repaid. Private debt is colossal. The state has promised to support legions of people that it can’t sustain. It steals 500 billion a year and still has to borrow billions more and print still more billions. It drains most of the capital–that should finance new business– out of the economy. The banks are talking about negative interest rates.

    Enough.

    Yes the country has more wealth, more stuff than in 73–despite vast numbers of industries vanishing. Some of that is real goods that didn’t exist and weren’t possible in 73. Much of it is inflated currency. In 73 ( and more so in the 60s) a man could house feed and look after a family from one wage. Whereas today most struggle to raise a family with two wages.

    The UK is not fine numb-nuts –nor is the EU or the Yanks or Japan. Try a few of these:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-ibcORs4I4

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZ-fQmmgtDo

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYkl3XlEneA

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHZqXmTvojE

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_lDIZshVXs

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYtbEJfQtDI

  67. @ Steve winning here
    “UK was a basket case in 1973” LIAR
    The UK was in decline from 1973 to 1979 but it wasn’t too bad in 1973.

  68. Stevie the wonder horse

    John77
    3 day week, british Leyland, Joe Gormley, it was a nightmare. I remember the power cuts and dad finding a camping gas stove so we could eat by candlelight

    Yep 1973 was great

  69. Stevé MC Queen jumping the brexit BS barbed wire

    Yo moon howlers.

    It’s past midnight in euro land and literally the best arguments I’ve had all day are “‘s foreigners innit” and “1973 was good”

    Is that all you’ve got?

    Answer. Yes

    Caio bambini!

  70. Clocking off again Stevie-boy?

    After your vast fact-filled refutation of the two links you have had so far (both dynamiting your EU fantasy prosperity bollocks) you must be tired. You are the top man with facts after all. So you keep telling everybody.

    Your naming is getting weirder. Been smoking some weed to kill the cheat-sheet boredom? Better open the window so yer Mam doesn’t find out.

    Don’t forget to fill-in your time sheet. Your EU pals only like cheating others. They won’t like to be cheated.

  71. Steve One Nil Up After Day One

    Ecks. I’m not watching videos. Argue like a man/woman/gender-fluid.

    Keep the questions/points short: +/- 140 characters is good guide. IMO, waffling betrays clouded thoughts.

  72. Pseudo Steve

    I like the idea that having been utterly destroyed you nevertheless declare ‘I’ve won’ – I think The excellent Mr Ecks is correct – they have to be paying you for this – if you could google ‘Tax Research UK’ you might find a more sympathetic audience and one where you might have a chance of actually winning an argument rather than proclaiming victory when you have been utterly routed!

  73. How about answering my point about how the French were able to flout EU law for over 3 years to the UK’s detriment with zero penalty? Or does the fact that didn’t happen within your goldfish capacity memory mean it never happened?

  74. Steve Heading for Two Nil

    Jim, Yes, in 2002 the French did flout EU law. Disgraceful but I would say:

    a/ there was a law to break. Without the EU there would be no redress
    b/ this was an isolated incident, it was cleared up eventually, and there hasn’t been much behaviour like this since
    c/ the French do this kind of thing all the time domestically. The UK being in the EU helps educate other electorates that there are better ways of carrying on
    d/ Bet your life if the UK does leave this will happen a lot more often, and it will be much harder to get redress.

  75. “Bet your life if the UK does leave this will happen a lot more often”

    I’m overwhelmed by the number of Remain arguments that amount to: we’re locked in to this strange political structure for ever, because the structure and actions will be even worse if we leave but if we stay they will be so impressed by our example, they will copy it (but only if we stay).

  76. Stevé MC Queen jumping the brexit BS barbed wire

    CHF. That’s a caracture. We arrived late to the EU and have been sulky members ever since. Of course it’s not how we want. But recently the northern countries are starting to win the argument.

    A UK Germany axis backed with scandis and Dutch could work wonders

  77. ” Bet your life if the UK does leave this will happen a lot more often, and it will be much harder to get redress.”

    Not really – imagine post Brexit a French government bans UK beef again due to some health scare. Fair enough there might be no World Trade law that we could use to get them to open up again. But being outside the EU we could retaliate. No more French wine or cheese allowed into the UK until they lift the ban on our beef. I think there might be a re-evaluation of their policy quite rapidly.

    While in the EU we can only ask the Commission take action against other countries who break the rules, not do anything ourselves. And as we have seen, they will not take action against countries like France, who can get away with murder. On our own we could retaliate immediately. Not have to sit there for 3 years while the EU Commission decide exactly what to do, if anything.

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