Well, yes, seems reasonable

He replied: ‘Call me old-fashioned, but I tend to think of people with penises as men.

Ian McEwan

Especially those who have sired 6 children….

39 thoughts on “Well, yes, seems reasonable”

  1. “McEwan is not the first high profile personality to offer controversial views on transgenderism.”

    They were all correct too.

  2. Personally, I think of men who have had their penises removed as men without penises. Eunuchs, in the old language.

    Now, some of them may be transexuals, probably most of them (bobbiting not having taken off as revenge for abusive relationships), but that doesn’t make them women.

    Vice versa, too for F to M transexuals.

    These views probably aren’t officially sanctioned but I’ve got another dose of diversity training to sleep through at the end of the month.

  3. It is most unwise to consider the load of vile socialist shite that is identity-politics as just another annoyance of life like the weather.

    It is the evil of socialism in action working to undermine and destroy our society at its root.

    It –along with all the rest of the lefts antics–must be smashed.

    Purging the Unis and the scum of the SCS is only a start. Defunding and crushing the “3rd sector” vermin must happen also. The MSM is dying anyway but there is no reason why that can’t be helped by a 1 week BBC shutdown and an end of state job advertising in the Guardian* . And an end to the kind of state jobs that have been advertised there anyway.

    That would only leave local councils and state education awaiting the chop.

    *(as was promised and,of course, never delivered by Mr Pig-Fuck, Hell none of his Guardian journo buddies would ever accept a dinner invite from Strap-on Sam again if he’d done that).

  4. Ecks,

    You are turning this into an art form.

    That was quite spectacular and had a certain kind of aesthetic value.

  5. ‘Controversial’ – what a fucking godawful weasel word that has become.

    His view is not ‘controversial’ at all if you’ve an ounce of common sense.

  6. I have to say, I don’t give a tinker’s damn whether Bruce Jenner wants to be called Caitlyn, or “identifies” as a woman, or has expensive plastic surgery (however much the latter makes me cringe). I don’t particularly care if he wants to be called “she”.

    But …

    I understand why some women do not want to share public bathroom facilities or changing rooms with a bloke.

    And I object to being forcibly required to deny reality. It’s a not a woman. It’s a bloke with some serious mental issues who has (or hasn’t – I don’t know or care) paid to have his meat and two veg chopped off and now dresses in women’s clothes.

  7. My view on these things is rather live and let live. If we are going to live in an increasingly “genderfluid” or “nonbinary” world I guess we are just going to have to get on with unisex toilets.

  8. @Steve

    That’s because having an opinion about gender *isn’t* the same as burning people alive

  9. Dr Cromarty – Call me old fashioned, but I think I should get off with paying weregild for burning witches.

  10. Dr Cromarty – medical chaps are so literal minded.

    I had a blood test recently and the doc said “hmm… you have unusually high levels of testosterone”.

    So I punched him and shagged his receptionist.

    True story. Apart from the lies.

  11. “I guess we are just going to have to get on with unisex toilets.”

    O/T, but the French seem easy with those. And even to the point where both boys and girls walk past the stand up urinals to get to the cubicles…

  12. No, we’re not

    Pendants an’ all.

    Bloody doctors.

    MBE – If we are going to live in an increasingly “genderfluid” or “nonbinary” world I guess we are just going to have to get on with unisex toilets.

    Nah. They’ll just shift the Overton window left again and decry your bigotry against paedos or polyamorists or people who fuck hedgehogs.

    There’s no live and let live with social justice warriors.

    Ecksy is basically right.

  13. So Much For Subtlety

    Steve – “Call me old fashioned, but I think we should burn witches.”

    It is amazing how society is moving in such a way that this seems more and more like a sensible mainstream position.

    After all, think what sensible mainstream people think of as sensible and mainstream these days.

  14. PF

    …the French seem easy with those. And even to the point where both boys and girls walk past the stand up urinals to get to the cubicles…

    That’s probably only because the French male regards the world as his pissoir, so French women are used to seeing men pissing. If the French have unisex loos, that’s a reason for us not to.

    All you need to know about the French is summed up in two facts: they have the lowest per capita consumption of body soap and gels in the EU, and the highest per capita consumption of anal pessaries in the world.

  15. You cannot make peace or come to an accord with those whose aim is your destruction. Destroy them or they will destroy you.

    Bad enough if these people were spewing leftist evil as a result of something terrible happening to them. But when it is mostly middle-class young snot who have never had a day’s financial hardship in their worthless lives and have got some cobb on with Mummy/Daddy, their own (well-deserved) inferiority complex or whatever, it is a piss-boiling outrage

    The vermin are everywhere. A relative of mine reads “Starburst” magazine (it is for fans of SF, Fantasy etc). It seems that the Fantasy Society of America or whoever have stopped awarding the “H P Lovecraft prize ” for best fantasy writing because of Lovecraft’s “racism”. Presumably they mean his laughably OTT decrials of “hordes of loathsome Leventines” he claimed to be oppressed by during his time in NYC.( If he’d said “Israeli” instead of the L-word he would be right at home with most of the Corbyn gang).
    The cunt writing the article said that there had been the “expected backlash” but “most people were happy with the decision”. Most of the G-reading shite you mix with maybe son.

    That is how widespread and insidious these scum are. We can’t just sit back and treat it as if it was a minor matter. If we don’t destroy them, they will destroy us.

    And to die by self-neglect when faced with an opposition composed of useless drones and weaselling liars is truly disgraceful.

  16. Theo: To my astonishment I am 100% in agreement with you.

    Although I have been thro’ northern France on a bus trip I have only met five French people socially in my life and all of them smelled very bad. Bad breath (such that at 4 feet away it was hard not to turn my head or retch) or BO or both.

    We want nothing aping French habits of any sort.

  17. So Much For Subtlety

    Surreptitious Evil – “And I object to being forcibly required to deny reality.”

    How do you feel about IQ tests?

  18. “Call me old fashioned, but I think we should burn witches.”

    Lol.

    The history of the human race demonstrates that if enough people hold a lunatic position, rational thought becomes ‘controversial’.

  19. ‘Call me old-fashioned, but I tend to think of people with penises as men.’

    I suppose it depends upon how many penises the individual has and how many are attached (rather than pickled in a jar).

    How about we just treat people as people irrespective of appendages, that means multi-sex single occupant loos, changing rooms etc. with doors wide enough to get a wheelchair in, door dampers strong enough to close firmly but not too strong for those too weak etc.

    Just design stuff to be inclusive from the ground up.

    Toilet, a private cubicle marked toilet that contains a sink, a loo and a urinal that anybody (of any description) can use.

    Same for Shower, same for Changing room

    (As to the seat left up argument (in the age of the soft close lid), make it so when you press the flush button, the lid closes and then it flushes.)

  20. a private cubicle .. that contains a sink, a loo … that anybody (of any description) can use.

    What – you mean, like you get in houses? Nah, it’ll never catch on…

  21. Bloke in Costa Rica

    Some family friends many years did one of those student exchanges where their daughter went off to France and they got a teenage Frogess in return. They said she was a nice enough girl, but after about ten days they basically had to bundle her in the shower and turn the taps on. I seem to recall that the per-capita soap consumption figures were something like: UK 25 bars per year, France 2. I’m not sure how many I get through in a year but I would guess about 40.

  22. “It is the evil of socialism in action working to undermine and destroy our society at its root.”

    Carried out in this case by a Tea Party-supporting Republican… You sickos do talk a lot of shit.

    “I understand why some women do not want to share public bathroom facilities or changing rooms with a bloke.”

    I don’t want to share a bathroom with people like you. Seriously. Are you saying I should be able to have you banned from them?

    Have you lot all gone Muslim or something?

  23. BiCR

    40 bars per year per head seems obsessive.

    If you had to use proper frog soap then 2 half bricks of carbolic with added sharp grit per year would be more than enough for anybody.

    French women, whilst on the whole being stunningly attractive, have very short legs in relation to their height.

  24. How outrageous that women might want to have men excluded from their toilets. What a are they, fascists or something? Or, gasp, Zionists?

  25. “How outrageous that women might want to have men excluded from their toilets.”

    Yeah. Men are evil.

    “What a are they, fascists or something? Or, gasp, Zionists?”

    No. Men are worse. No-one every tried to ban fascists from a toilet.

  26. So Much For Subtlety

    BobRocket – “How about we just treat people as people irrespective of appendages”

    That is not what is being offered. You have to take from the available options and that is not one of them. Ask the people whose careers Trans activists have destroyed for perfectly harmless research.

    “Just design stuff to be inclusive from the ground up.”

    And troughs for the otherkin too?

  27. NiB: Right-wingers invented the trannie craze? You must have been overcome by the fumes in your own unisex khazi.

  28. While a transgender person might technically be a man. I would expect basic manners to induce us to refer to them as a woman or “she” if that person has asked to be referred to in that way.

    I had several friends with given names that were more than a little old fashioned and so chose to go by another. I don’t really see this as being much different until you start asking where to go and pee. (even then the ladies is all cubicles anyway so it shouldn’t matter)

  29. So Much For Subtlety

    LJAR – “While a transgender person might technically be a man. I would expect basic manners to induce us to refer to them as a woman or “she” if that person has asked to be referred to in that way.”

    We should only respect the polite wishes of those who respect the rights of others. That is, not the Transsexuals.

    We do not insist that people who think they are Napoleon are referred to as “Your Imperial Majesty”. Nor should we.

    Luckily I *am* the world’s greatest lover. And I am so secure in this I don’t need you to constantly refer to it.

  30. I would expect basic manners to induce us to refer to them as a woman or “she” if that person has asked to be referred to in that way.

    When Bruce Jenner phones me personally and requests that I call him ‘she’, then maybe I’ll consider it.

  31. “Right-wingers invented the trannie craze?”

    Nope. I explained this before.

    The SJWs pick groups that they think the public are sympathetic with and conservatives don’t like, then offer ‘support’ for their rights to stir up trouble. The idiot conservatives fall straight into the trap and kick up about how letting this group out of their ghetto will inevitably erode the moral fabric of society, which the SJWs then use to paint them as bigots and bullies, justifying their use of authoritarian legislation to support the move since asking nicely so obviously didn’t work.

    They did it with the poor, initially, and painted the conservatives as greedy selfish fat cats who used destitute orphans as boot-scrapers. They did it with women, portraying conservatives as mysogynistic dinosaurs who beat their wives. They did it with blacks, presenting conservatives as hillbilly rednecks one step away from slavers. They did it with gays, and conservatives became the gay-bashing homophobes hiding their own shameful repressed homosexuality. They did it with the disabled, back to selfishness again, being too cheap to spring for a ramp and wider doors. They use the same tactic again and again, and every single time you fall into the same trap, and lose yet another round in the culture war.

    Trans can no more be identified with SJWs than women, the disabled, or the working classes. Some small number of them I’m sure are, just as there are SJW women and SJW blacks. But 99% of trans are keeping their heads down, just hoping not to get beaten up by the next band of trans-bashing homophobes they hear are running around, and I should think a considerable proportion of them have right-wing inclinations – or at least they would do if they hadn’t heard that right-wingers were evil and wanted to keep them oppressed and frightened.

    All this crap about you’re ‘only fighting the authoritarian left’ is so much lying hypocritical shit. Even when it’s a right-winger doing it (and getting hassled by SJWs for it), you’re still on their case. It’s not about ‘pandering to their illusions’, either. You’ll happily give the (non-Muslim) religious a pass. There are hundreds of things people think and do that other people think is deluded. You show no interest in criticising any of them – nor does Tim show any interest in bringing them up at every opportunity.

    It’s the same impulse that drives the Muslims. They come from societies where railway carriages are segregated. They’re horrified that their wives and daughters might have to share a carriage with men, who being the sinfully perverted lechers they are, will rape them. So they intentionally go into railway carriages and assault the female occupants to make the point, so that you’ll restore things to the way they should be, with men and women separate.

    I’ve heard of conservatives doing the same thing – going into women’s bathrooms and making a pest of themselves, to try to show how allowing TGs in will undermine the foundations of civilisation.

    They’re deluded. Men in European railway carriages are not interested in assaulting the women there, and TGs going to the bathroom just want to use the toilet. It’s not the 1980s, when randy porn-deprived teenagers were driven to desperate lengths for a brief and distant glimpse – you can get high-definition close-ups of (well-paid, willing) ladyparts on the internet, for free. No risk. Whereas any TG caught trying to sneak a peek in the ladies (how?) is at risk of their lives. They’re too scared of getting into trouble as it is.

    As Tim has pointed out several times with respect to porn and prostitution, greater exposure doesn’t cause men to want to assault women, it actually has the reverse effect, giving men a safe alternative. It’s the same principle as with drugs – ban something that people want, erect a barrier to trade, and you just raise the price paid to circumvent it. The profits you make available attract organised crime, and the desperation of the customers to raise enough to pay the inflated prices causes lots of disorganised crime too. It causes more trouble in the end.

    Segregation of the sexes and strict policing of rigidly defined gender roles is the same. The higher you raise the barriers, the harder they’ll fall when they do. The younger generation simply don’t care about that stuff any more. But the SJWs are now working to swing the pendulum to the other end of the scale, and have homophobic and transphobic right-wingers policed the same way.

    So give them an excuse, why don’t you.

  32. The Inimitable Steve

    I had several friends with given names that were more than a little old fashioned and so chose to go by another.

    This is why my mate Æthelred the Unready asks people to call him “Dave”.

  33. “They use the same tactic again and again, and every single time you fall into the same trap, and lose yet another round in the culture war.”

    So lets see.

    SJWs pick on random social sub set not liked by Right wingers, demand X,Y and Z on behalf of them. Right wingers fight, get painted as the ‘baddies’, and eventually lose. SJWs move on to next social subset. Rinse and repeat.

    How does this cycle change if the Right wingers just say ‘Fine, lets have men with big swinging dicks pretending to be women in the Ladies loos’ right from the off?

  34. “How does this cycle change if the Right wingers just say ‘Fine…”

    The best recent example is Gamergate. The SJWs decided to take on the white male conservative game-playing geeks – write some games packed full of SJW lecturing and then complain that nobody wanted to say what great games they were. Therefore, they needed to introduce ‘affirmative action’ to force them on the gamer population.

    Had this played to script, the gamers would have launched an attack on women and LGBTs, telling them to get out of gaming if they didn’t like it. No doubt with lots of cracks about girls being no good at games, anyway.

    They didn’t do it that way. The computer geeks stuck to the position that women-and-LGBT-friendly games were judged equitably on the simple criteria of whether people wanted to play them, and all the female and LGBT gamers stood up and said they stood with the gamergate lot and against the SJWs. They attacked the SJWs only, they didn’t attack the women and LGBTs that the SJWs were hiding behind, but instead united with them.

    And it was obvious to anyone who looked at both sides of the argument that gamers were *not* mysogynistic, and the SJWs were therefore lying. The gamers won – pretty much the only recent culture-wars win the right has had. (The other one being Sad Puppies, where the same thing applied. SPs picked candidates to vote for blind to the author’s politics, simply on the basis of whether it was a good story, and the SJWs proved themselves to be unhinged in response to this sanity. Win.)

    Tactically, you confine your response to the SJWs and the *coercive* elements of the policy they propose. If public sympathy is supportive of the group they’re hiding behind, you figure out a mutually acceptable compromise with them, as we do when any social conflict arises. Don’t just demand things stay the same – think about what’s really important to you, and why. Find out what’s really important to them. Show that sympathetic public that you’re the reasonable ones, conservatism can find an equitable solution, and it’s only the SJWs who are deranged with blind, stubborn partisan hate.

    There are poor conservatives, women conservatives, black conservatives, and LGBT conservatives. They can’t help the way they’re born. What, in the conservative world view, are they supposed to do? What would you do?

    Equally, there are misogynistic, racist, and homophobic conservatives, and they can’t help what they are, either. They have rights, too. How can they all find a way to live together?

    Liberal conservatives hold themselves to high moral standards, and teach their children to have pride in them, while authoritarian lefties hold everyone else to high moral standards, and enforce them with coercion and fear. People can relate to that.

    An old-fashioned conservative will always hold a door open for a lady, but would recoil in horror at the idea someone else should be punished or fired for not doing so. Virtue has to be voluntary, or it has no value. Likewise, an old-fashioned conservative would hold to old-fashioned courtesy, and voluntarily call people by the names and titles they want to be known by, but would not want it to be compulsory, nor to have their private thoughts policed for consistency with this public facade. It need be no secret that they believe otherwise, that they’re just being polite – but politeness is the oil that greases the wheels of civilisation. By being polite to them, you can have reason to hope they’ll be polite about all the stuff you do and are that they don’t approve of.

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