Umm, yes, didn’t we know this?

Labour’s performance in last week’s council elections suggests Jeremy Corbyn’s party is struggling to attract the working-class voters who traditionally formed the core of its support, according to a detailed analysis of the results.

First the BNP then UKIP eating away at those traditionally, socially at least, rather conservative working class voters that the metropolitian chatterati so despise.

We’ve all been watching this for a decade now, haven’t we?

36 thoughts on “Umm, yes, didn’t we know this?”

  1. Lets be honest. It’s not just the Labour Party detest the white working class. The intellectual end of libertarianism isn’t any more accommodating.
    Had a tiff with one of the Samizdata luminaries over what was being described as the “boot boys” of the EDL. Way I see it, you have blokes who’re unhappy about the way things are going. They go with groups like the EDL because who else wants to know them? What’s exactly wrong with reaching out & showing there are other alternatives?.
    But, “not our sort of people”, of course.

  2. So Much For Subtlety

    Working Class British people supported Enoch Powell. His views were not unpopular. It is just that the snobs and nobs who ran the Labour Party were able to buy off the workers with free goodies.

    Since Blair embraced a more fiscally conservative politics, what holds the workers and the Guardianistas together? Worshiping the deviant and depraved may be fashionable in Islington but it isn’t in Camden Town.

  3. Even Orwell observed that the British working classes were conservative in nature, and not prone to socialist agitation.

  4. SMFS,

    You don’t meet many socialist “workers” (the irony of the newspaper title is never lost on me). I’ve done work in factories and they might drift as far as Blair, but they’re less left wing than some public sector places I’ve worked. They might favour a Blair but they’re basically moderates. Corbyn’s supporters are really just clients of the state now. People on benefits, or in the public sector.

    The big shift can be seen in newspaper circulation. The Mirror and Sun were almost the same size in 1979. By the end of the 1990s, The Sun was nearly twice the size. The White Van Men had walked away from Labour. And New Labour was created because people like Philip Gould did focus groups and found that no-one gave a shit about socialism. Corbyn is trying to go back to a time that no longer exists. If the people supporting him had just read what these New Labour guys had written they’d know that this project is folly.

    And I think the reasons are twofold: a) the car and generally improved transport. People no longer needed to be in unions. If you didn’t like your job, you left and got another b) the liberal wing of the Conservative party winning and putting the surrender monkeys like Macmillan out to pasture.

  5. “Old” style socialism may be scotched (not dead) but Cultural Marxism is alive and poisonously well.

    With BluLab as a part of the team.

  6. What’s the opposite of a dead cat bounce? Labour are just bobbing down slightly from their high tide mark of four years ago, settling down into still controlling the vast majority of the urban councils that were voting two weeks ago. Manchester is now only 98.9% Labour down from 100% Labour, Argh! Disaster! Labour on the rocks! At this rate there’ll be no Labour councillors on Manchester City Council by 2110.

  7. Not very skilled workers in the USA, the UK, and other developed nations are used to being paid well above their global market value. And many of them like politicians who’ll tell them that the differentials can be maintained for ever if only we keep enough foreigners out.

    What’s bizarre is when professed free-marketers like Tim W position themselves on the side of the protectionists.

  8. The Labour party in the UK and the Democrats in the US have positioned themselves against the white working class, most of whom are quite patriotic and don’t really care for the lefts pandering to immigrants and foreigners. However, as the left always double down, expect demands for more 3rd world immigration and more demonisation of the white working class as racists, misogynists, homophobes and xenophobes.

  9. “Manchester is now only 98.9% Labour down from 100% Labour, Argh! Disaster! Labour on the rocks! At this rate there’ll be no Labour councillors on Manchester City Council by 2110.”

    As recently as 2010 the SNP had 6 MPs at Westminster, vs Labour’s 41. Look at them both now.

    Hollowed out electoral support can look perfectly OK for years, all its waiting for is the right combination of events and alternatives to come along and Bam! you’re wiped out.

    That was Labour in Scotland, and Labour in the North is in a similar (though probably not quite as dire) position. It looks rock solid, but its actually very shaky.

  10. Support the BNP but _not_ Corbyn? Yeah, right, sure. Whatever your views on why Corbyn has reinvented Nazism, the obvious reality is that he has the massed support of the far right.

    SMFS>

    Enoch was wrong. Unlike you, though, he was scientific enough in what he did: he made a falsifiable prediction, and it has since been falsified. Also unlike you, he’d have been delighted to be wrong: he was worried about a race-war that he thought was a bad thing, rather than trying to start one he thought would be a good thing.

  11. The housing estate where I spent my formative years is now (has been for many years) in special measures, a wild-west no-go area. My generation (boomers) got out and got on. One of the principal benefits of social housing is an incentive to distance yourself as far as possible from purgatory. Those remaining interbred. Neither they nor the outers vote Labour: the latter because Labour are perceived to be a party that favours immigrants; the former out of reluctance to part with our hard-earned income in favour of those we consider undeserving. All of us, both tribes, have a negative view of politicians: the phrase pork barrel springs to mind. People who take the plaudits for distributing alms – our money – to the poor. If it was just the poor we wouldn’t have a problem; it’s the largess to people that should be standing on their own two feet at the expense of my dependents, so called income redistribution. I have to compete in a global industry against individuals who aren’t required bear my social costs, and that comes at the expense of MY family. Money earned stays in my pocket or is purloined for someone else’s – a simple calculation. Charity, as my old dad was fond of saying, begins at home.

  12. Gary>

    Even if you’re mad enough to construe current events as a race-war, it’s most certainly not the one Enoch wrongly predicted, and it’s obviously not going on in this country.

  13. @Dave

    Enoch never predicted a ‘race war’. It’s clear you’ve never read the so-called ‘rivers of blood speech – why not do so:
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/3643823/Enoch-Powells-Rivers-of-Blood-speech.html
    You’ll notice that the phrase “rivers of blood” never occurs. The actual line is:
    As I look ahead, I am filled with foreboding; like the Roman, I seem to see “the River Tiber foaming with much blood.”
    Enoch, as an eminent classical scholar (double-starred first from Cambridge, full professor at 24) was quoting from the Aeneid, an allusion no doubt lost on 99% of his audience – now, if not then.

    So, if you’re after a ‘falsifiable prediction’, we should be watching for multiple deaths in Italy – though that’s clearly not what was meant. Since the speech (1968), there have been some 20 race riots in the UK. The loss of life has not been huge (though some might think even one loss too many), but I wonder how much blood needs to be shed before you might consider there actually was something in what he said?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_riots#United_Kingdom

  14. Chris>

    Don’t be absurd. I suggest you go and read that quote from Homer in context. There’s simply no question that Powell was talking about a full-scale war, not an occasional riot.

    “I wonder how much blood needs to be shed before you might consider there actually was something in what he said?”

    If Powell were alive today, he’d be telling you what I am: that he was overly pessimistic and has been proven wrong. Unlike you, he wasn’t obsessed with trying to create bogeymen, and he was intellectually honest.

  15. Don’t be absurd. I suggest you go and read that quote from Homer in context.

    You’d be hard pressed to find that quote in anything by Homer, given that the Aeneid was written by Virgil.

  16. Speaking as a left-wing working class scouser I have said for years that if my fellow Liverpudlians voted according to their views rather than tradition. Well, the BNP would romp home each & every time.

  17. KJ>

    Only if they voted on what the BNP-nists said rather than what they meant. For all that they worked hard to put a veneer of civility on neo-Nazism, and granted that veneer sometimes got them votes from idiots, the reality was that they were Nazis. Most people could see that.

  18. . Well, the BNP would romp home each & every time.

    Until Corbyn finishes his re-engineering, the BNP, like the SNP, are comfortably to the left of Labour.

    Much less ‘liberal’, but more lefty.

  19. Hollowed out electoral support can look perfectly OK for years, all its waiting for is the right combination of events and alternatives to come along and Bam! you’re wiped out.

    The effect is multiplied greatly by First Past the Post. It’s one of the reasons I really dislike the system — it favours incumbent parties far too much. People keep voting for them because a vote for them at least counts.

    In proportional systems it works differently, though NZ Labour are finding that even then support can drift away pretty fast.

    Then again, change the leadership and support can return as quickly as it left.

  20. I’m glad you’re able to channel Enoch’s thoughts from beyond the veil, Dave – a truly rare and valuable talent. Now, would you care to answer my question – how much blood would you like to see before you’ll admit we might have the teensiest little problem? Clearly 56 deaths on 7/7 wasn’t enough.

    And you dare to question the intellectual honesty of others? I’m surprised you can even spell it.

  21. So Much For Subtlety

    Dave – “Enoch was wrong. Unlike you, though, he was scientific enough in what he did: he made a falsifiable prediction, and it has since been falsified.”

    How has it been falsified? Britain is awash with violence from non-White people aimed at White people. How isn’t that just what he predicted?

  22. SE>

    I’d say the BNP are (or were) out in that other political dimension where left and right become meaningless.

    Chester>

    I’d argue that’s the advantage of FPTP. It’s about the right degree of bias in favour of conservatism.

    Chris>

    One doesn’t have to channel Enoch to read the many other things he wrote. He was a man with a rare degree of integrity who is unfairly maligned for one big mistake he made. He most certainly was not a racist, and it’s a slur on the memory of an upright,.principle, honest man that people like you and SMFS treat him as a totem in a cause he made clear he abhorred.

    Unlike you, he wasn’t worried about immigrants killing ‘English’ people. Look at the numbers, that’s an impossibility. He was worried that we’d shame our country by having our own Holocaust against the recent immigrants.

    SMFS>

    A few isolated incidents, one very serious, do not make a war. The areas of the country where radical Islam supposedly has such a strong hold are almost all within a short bus ride of some of the most overtly religious Jewish neighbourhoods. How often does anyone even make that bus ride to start trouble, let alone to kill someone?

    So no, you have to be either joking or mad if you think there’s a race war going on in this country.

  23. So Much For Subtlety

    Dave – “One doesn’t have to channel Enoch to read the many other things he wrote. He was a man with a rare degree of integrity who is unfairly maligned for one big mistake he made.”

    This would be less amusing if you knew what Homer actually did and did not write. Why would anyone think you had read Powell? Why do you think what he said was a mistake? It ended his chances of promotion but he was probably fine with that.

    “He most certainly was not a racist, and it’s a slur on the memory of an upright,.principle, honest man that people like you and SMFS treat him as a totem in a cause he made clear he abhorred.”

    He most certainly was a racist and no one is doing anything other than pointing out how popular what he said was among the ordinary voters. And that he was, of course, right.

    “Unlike you, he wasn’t worried about immigrants killing ‘English’ people. Look at the numbers, that’s an impossibility. He was worried that we’d shame our country by having our own Holocaust against the recent immigrants.”

    Was he? That is funny. Quote him. Quote a single thing that would suggest he had the same contempt for the English public that the politically correct like you do.

    “A few isolated incidents, one very serious, do not make a war.”

    Really? How many incidents make a war then?

    “The areas of the country where radical Islam supposedly has such a strong hold are almost all within a short bus ride of some of the most overtly religious Jewish neighbourhoods. How often does anyone even make that bus ride to start trouble, let alone to kill someone?”

    What makes you think that they care all that much about orthodox Jews? Or for that matter why do you think that the violence is confined to Muslim communities? Every day people of immigrant background murder, rape and rob people of indigenous origins. Often with an explicit racial motive. Why do you ignore that violence?

    “So no, you have to be either joking or mad if you think there’s a race war going on in this country.”

    We are not as bad as America where there is a low level civil war. But we are getting there. Powell did not put a time frame on his prediction.

  24. “What I would take ‘racialist’ to mean is a person who believes in the inherent inferiority of one race of mankind to another, and who acts and speaks in that belief. So the answer to the question of whether I am a racialist is ‘no’—unless, perhaps, it is to be a racialist in reverse. I regard many of the peoples in India as being superior in many respects—intellectually, for example, and in other respects—to Europeans. Perhaps that is over-correcting.”

  25. So Much For Subtlety

    Social Justice Warrior – “I regard many of the peoples in India as being superior in many respects—intellectually, for example, and in other respects—to Europeans. Perhaps that is over-correcting.”

    Sure but that is just the way educated people say some of their best friends are Indian.

  26. @Dave. Yes I do think we are in the middle of a race war. Not one we started, not one we want, one we wish would go away so we studiously try to avoid, ignore and re-name it. But there are indeed peoples who wish our peoples to be dead.

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