Err, yes, yes

The only stable community in this universal upheaval has been the European Union, formed from the wreckage of a continent for which I and millions of others fought six years of war. I write as a former airman, having flown well over 2,000 hours against three despotic enemy nations. That victory for the democracies has given Europe 70 years of peace and security in a widely unstable world. The “leave” chancers are campaigning to abandon this steady progress, citing values false or irrelevant, while they have no plan of what to do after jumping ship.

You were fighting for a Europe not dominated by Germany, yes? One where we weren’t ruled by a fat German socialist?

26 thoughts on “Err, yes, yes”

  1. Did you really fight in the war?

    I only ask because, assuming you had, you would have noticed those strange creatures called Americans; they had an awful lot to with winning the war. In favt they fought for two continents; no just ours. And you might even have those weird things called Russians; they had a fair bit to do with it as well. You don’t mention either in your little letter.

    Anyway, if you were, as you now claim, fighting for this Europe, a union that doesn’t include Americans and Russians, then by all means you defend it. And congraulations on the foresight I simply cannot believe was available to all your comrades.Just don’t pretend this Europe of yours was won by Europeans.

  2. The European Project was designed from the start to chain France and Germany together so much that they would never fight again, and not drag Britain into a continental war. It does not need Britain to be chained to France and Germany, the chaining together of France and Germany was specifically so that Britain would *not* get dragged back into continental politics.

  3. I seem to remember quite a few New Zealanders fighting in that war too, how did that work out when the UK joined the EEC and froze NZ out of the markets?

  4. I’m always a little unwilling to believe claims of this kind (2,000 hours on ops: really?), partly because my dear father would never have boasted of his service and looked very much askance at anyone who did. But anyway…

    It just goes to show that active service (if that’s what it was) is not 100%-effective as an inoculation against dim-witted naivety. Surprisingly.

  5. Bloke in North Dorset

    “I seem to remember quite a few New Zealanders fighting in that war too, how did that work out when the UK joined the EEC and froze NZ out of the markets?”

    Plus Aussies, Indians and any number of South Seas islanders (many still serving).

  6. ‘That victory for the democracies has given Europe 70 years of peace and security in a widely unstable world.’
    Those 70 years of peace were largely secured by NATO, the EU had nothing to do with it.

  7. The Meissen Bison

    You’d hope that a WW2 decorated British airman would recognise Junkers as an enemy.

  8. We stopped fighting Germany when London was bombed to a standstill and Hess flew in with a peace or non-aggression
    agreement. When is the text of this ever going to be released?

  9. What a fucking cynical article, exploiting wartime sacrifice to desperately shore up their Project. Really vile.

    I imagine a poll of airmen at the time with the question:

    “Are you fighting for a united Europe, dominated by Germany, in which the UK cannot protect its borders”

    I reckon the answer would have been “no”.

  10. “We stopped fighting Germany when London was bombed to a standstill and Hess flew in with a peace or non-aggression
    agreement. When is the text of this ever going to be released?”

    Er, what? Is Livingstoneism catching?

  11. DBC: We stopped fighting Germans after 1941 or so?

    Can all of our service people who died after 1941 come home yet then?

  12. The Pedant-General

    George Macdonald Fraser (he of Flashman and Private McAuslan fame) wrote an epilogue to a later edition of his excellent autobiography “Quartered Safe Out Here”, where he explicitly condemned the move to a European superstate.

    He said that this was the antithesis of what they fought for. He was right.

  13. They can happily exploit this because they despise the armed forces anyway, bunch of old white oppressors that they were, and probably all racists too. Still, any tool for the job when you are utterly cynical yet deluded by noble cause corruption.

  14. Everyone knows what really happened:

    Hess did indeed fly in to negotiate peace, and was warmly welcomed by the fascists and Mail readers running the country at the time (plus ca change!)

    All was going swimmingly until Hess made the grave error of a implementing an LVT as part of the New Order of Europe.

    His mistake was to bring this up in Scotland, spiritual home of Tory land-owners. And so the war rumbled on.

  15. Christ, next they’ll be saying that it was Junker, Prodi and Delors who personally won the War with their daring raid on Hitler’s bunker.

  16. That’s because they don’t have elections, and they haven’t ceded sovereignty to some extra-territorial power.

    But apart from Parliament (now disqualified), here a a few stable institutions:
    NATO
    The monarchy
    Patriotism (and Jockism)
    EFTA
    RSPCA
    C of E (sort of)
    Public schools
    MCC
    Complaining about the weather (a growing constituency)
    Political parties

    That’s enough list. It just illustrates that this 96 year old is, erm, somewhat confused.

  17. I love the ‘victory for the democracies’ bit. Perhaps he should ask Eastern Europe how they feel about their wonderful democratic history from 1945 to 1990.

    I’ve said it before and I’ll keep saying it – Western European democracy post 1945 is built on a pile of (decidedly non-democratic) Russian skulls, the skulls that it took to defeat the Nazis on the Eastern Front. There is no way the Western democracies could have taken the losses required to singlehandedly defeat the Wehrmacht in Europe. There would have been a negotiated peace and who knows where history would have ended up.

  18. So Much For Subtlety

    Jim – “I’ve said it before and I’ll keep saying it – Western European democracy post 1945 is built on a pile of (decidedly non-democratic) Russian skulls, the skulls that it took to defeat the Nazis on the Eastern Front.”

    This is the sort of quasi-clever revisionism that looks smart but isn’t. It is technically accurate but historically wrong. For a start Western Europe was actually more or less perfectly democratic before 1939. Those parts that were not – Spain and Portugal for instance – were not for a long time after 1945. Secondly, and more importantly, if it was not for Stalin there would have been no Hitler. There would have been no World War Two if Stalin had not been actively aiding and encouraging Hitler. Not merely Hitler but the Germans generally. The Soviets were giving the Germans help building tanks even before Hitler came to power. If they had not signed a deal there would have been no invasion of Poland.

    You do not have to go the full “Viktor Suvorov” route here to notice that Stalin was a co-belligerent with Hitler well before 1941.

    “There is no way the Western democracies could have taken the losses required to singlehandedly defeat the Wehrmacht in Europe. There would have been a negotiated peace and who knows where history would have ended up.”

    Actually we know where the war would have ended – the Americans would have used their bomb on Berlin and not Hiroshima. Which is what the mainly Jewish scientists who built it wanted to do with it. Even if the Americans had not used the bomb, Germany was being bombed flat. Even without the Soviets in the end Germany would have run out of women and children.

  19. “…a pile of… Russian skulls, the skulls that it took to defeat the Nazis on the Eastern Front.”

    Possibly they would have made out better if they hadn’t been on the other side when the war started.

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