From one of Ritchie’s mates

Some audience members did suggest that there should be criminal punishment for tax and accounting professionals who help in aggressive tax avoidance,

given that tax avoidance is, by definition, legal, how does this work then?

73 thoughts on “From one of Ritchie’s mates”

  4. Dennis the Peasant

    How does it work?

    1) The state hires Ritchie at a really fat salary.
    2) Ritchie decides based on whatever strikes his fancy at the moment.
    3) We all thank Ritchie for helping us get through our day and making the world a better place to live in.

    That’s how it works.

  6. abacab

    @Ironman, no eyewitness has reported that. It was an intervention from Maria Eagle.

    Disgusting attempt to tie it to “leave”.

    But I bet she thought she could get the lie going and it would enter into the public conciousness. Hope she has to eat it.

  8. Agammamon

    Wouldn’t RM be facing that exact sort of inquisition?

    He does, after all, arrange his affairs to avoid paying the maximum amount of tax he would have to under other arrangements.

    Is that not the core of tax avoidance?

  9. Agammamon

    . . . after being shot ‘three times . . .

    Wait, I thought you guys had strict gun control over there.

    “Obviously an attack on an MP is an attack on British diplomacy – MPs are sacrosanct.”

    I’m obviously in no position to judge whether or not this attack was deserved – I’m going to default to *not*, but . . .

    That may be part of the problem modern democracies are having with ever expanding state control. Voice isn’t working, exit is difficult (and effectively impossible for US citizens) so – what’s left? Why should someone who’s trying to take away your liberties be afforded a pass just because they’re an agent of the state?

    http://bleedingheartlibertarians.com/2016/04/in-defense-of-defensive-violence-against-government-agents/

  10. Johnnydub

    The “Britain First” thing is bollocks – made up evil bollocks.

    Its also being reported around the world.

    Other witness statements (from people who were actually there) say it was a street fight between two blokes and she intervened.

    But who knows – thebullshit will be on page 1 today, the “truth” on page 98 on June 24th.

  12. Edward Lud

    Ironman, I know. Or, at least, I thought I did till I read some of the other comments on this thread.

    But even if he did, what is your point?

  14. Ironman

    “Made up evil bollocks”

    What fucking juice do you drink? Every national paper is directly quoting “several” eyewitnesses. The best Mr Paul Golding of Britain First can offer is the claims are “unsubstantiated”.

    But here we have fucking Johnydub who clearly has the inside track and is able to confirm the claim are all “made up evil bollocks”.

    abacab

    Shall we send this thread on to Maria Eagle, let her know we’ve rumbled her evil lie? See what her response is?

  15. Ironman

    Oh come on. My point? My point is made by just how fast Johnydub and ababcab have jumped to try to deny any link at all to Britain First. The Maria Eagle comment is a new low even for some of the commentators on this blog.

  16. Edward Lud

    That cannot be right, Ironman. You were replying to me before either Johnydub or abacab had commented.

  17. Johnnydub

    And thus you prove my point Iron man you indescribably worthless cunt.

    The arrested suspect has been named and it appears from a name and locality perspective to be someone with longstanding mental health issues.

    The Britain First thing is now no longer mentioned on the BBC story as it is at best dubious and moSt likely bollock’s.

    But you couldn’t stop yourself could you? Frothing with righteous indignation you prove without any shadow of a doubt that youre an evil cunt. Well fuck you.

  18. Richard Allan

    “Dave” will be along in a minute to tell us that when he shouted “Britain First” he was only deluding himself and gullible racists.

  20. I sneeze in threes

    I have no idea how reliable this website is regarding the suspect.

    “In a blog post at the far right Springbok Cyber Newsletter’s website, Mair is described as “one of the earliest subscribers and supporters of “S.A. Patriot.” On the magazine’s website, it’s described as being pro-free market capitalism and patriotism and anti-political correctness and “expansionist Islam.””
    “Mair was quoted in the Huddersfield Daily Examiner in May 2010 in a story dealing with workers at a local park. The piece says he got the job after being referred by a local clinic for adults with mental health problems.” ..

    …”I can honestly say it has done me more good than all the psychotherapy and medication in the world. Many people who suffer from mental illness are socially isolated and disconnected from society, feelings of worthlessness are also common mainly caused by long-term unemployment. ”

    http://heavy.com/news/2016/06/tommy-mair-jo-cox-shooting-suspect-name-britain-first-brexit-eu-jeremy-corbyn-husband-brendan/

  22. Johnnydub

    re: PF

    This was my point – I have watched the unravelling of this bullshit all afternoon.

    But my anger with Ironman is just that he so fucking wants to believe it. In his mind he is a bold bastion of freedom and tolerance, when in fact he’s a witchburner and a fanatic.

    I mean poor Jo Cox’s body wasn’t even cold before Ironman and thousands of others were all over Twitter saying that this is what happens when UKIP / VoteLeave / Brexit are allowed a platform.

    The fascists like Ironman will stoop to anything in order for their point of view to win – that’s called fascism and I’m going to call out fascists pricks like Ironman till my dying day.

  23. Edward Lud

    Without bothering to do any research, I have it in mind that Maria Eagle is one of the less disgusting members of parliament. I may of course be misrembering….

  27. abacab

    The BBC seems to have memory-holed the story with the “Britain First” claim (or at least I can’t find it based on searching for the quote from the original article).

    But it was picked up already by a zillion other outlets.

  28. Ironman

    No bullshitting Johnydub, he shouted “Britain First” as he shot her. Not bollocks, not a lie, he did it. You called it a lie but you are the liar.

    I can see why you wannabe Nazis don’t like it; it is the exact mirror those lone wanker who shout “Allah Ahkbar”as they hill innocent white people.

    Oh how quick you jumped up to declare it “made up evil bollocks”. It’s not though AND YOU KNOW it!

  29. abacab

    “Update 1830 — Widely quoted local admits he didn’t hear “Britain First”
    Local restaurant owner Hicham Ben Abdallah, widely quoted across the media as having claimed Mr. Mair shouted, “Britain First” has told Breitbart London “No, no. I did not hear that”.”

  32. dearieme

    “given that tax avoidance is, by definition, legal, how does this work then?”: we jail all accountants and lawyers ‘just as a precaution’.

  33. The Inimitable Steve

    I’ve never heard of Britain First before. Are they a household name or something?

  34. Mr Ecks

    Terrible shame about the waste of life. Sickening that the scum of remain are on the job trying to twist events to their narrative.Some of the SJW Tweets show just how low remain really are. The shite-scum of the Earth.

    From Breitbart: ” There is currently no indication that the attacker was a Brexit campaigner, and reports over his shout of “Britain First” – the name of an anti-EU nationalist group – have had doubts cast upon them by Channel 5 news.

    Yet in 2010, when al-Qaeda sympathiser Roshonara Choudhry stabbed Stephen Timms, the Labour MP for East Hams, many of those same voices rushed to insist that it had “nothing to do with Islam” and “Muslims can’t be blamed”.”

  35. abacab

    So it seems that Joe Cox intervened in an altercation between a Care in the Community case and another chap, CitC case shoots and stabs her. Nobody hears “Britain First”, but then a Labour MP tweets “attacker shouted “Britain First” say eyewitnesses”. Reported by BBC. Reported all over the place. Eyewitness interviewed by telly – says he didn’t hear that. Tweet deleted. BBC story deleted.

    Yet Ironman keeps staring at his x-files “I want to believe” poster 😉

    Hopefully this sordid attempt to use a horrific, tragic yet apparently random act to smear Brexit supporters will boomerang on the Remainers, by showing just how low they’re prepared to stoop.

  38. abacab

    Remember – it doesn’t matter what he said, but what the narrative requires him to say. And he’s clearly representative of all Brexiteers. Unlike….

  39. abacab

    @Steve – he’s clearly misrepresenting the teachings of Britten First. He’s not a real Classic FM listener.

  40. Edward Lud

    But, Ironman, if, as CallmeDave and others insist, murderers yelling Allahugobshite have nothing to do with Islam, then why does this bloke yelling Britain First, if that’s what he did yell, have anything to do with us fascists/racist/nastypeople? Or, indeed with lovely, innocent Brexiters?

  41. abacab

    @Edward, that’s hateful neocolonialist logic right there. There’s political points to be scored here, which requires a higher level consistency not based on the so-called “logic” of dead white men.

  42. Edward Lud

    I loathe Classic FM. It’s so awful, it’s the best argument i can think of in favour of the BBC(R3).

  44. Theophrastus

    ‘that’s hateful neocolonialist logic right there. There’s political points to be scored here, which requires a higher level consistency not based on the so-called “logic” of dead white men.’

    Perfect. Just perfect.

  45. Theophrastus

    Years ago, my daughter then aged seven had to do a school project on Britten, and she referred to him in writing as Benjy Bender. As I said to her earnest female teacher, I have no idea where she picked up this term – *innocent face*. Today, the entire family would be investigated for hate crime.

  46. Jack C

    Edward Lud.
    I also remember the days when R3 would have been the station juste as well. Indeed. the only station.

    But, I believe Steve is in trade of some sort.

  47. Edward Lud

    Trade? Really? I’ll be sure to toss him a sov’. After all, I have grates that need cleaning, and you can’t expect the man in the street to do it for nuffink.

  48. PF

    “A keen mountain climber, Jo Cox lived in a converted barge moored at Tower Bridge with her husband Brendan and two young children”

    Whatever the politics, a character?

  50. Edward Lud

    Alex, nah. Classic FM is the “best bits”, especially if they include cannon. Doesn’t matter who wrote then. Accompanied by simpering broadcasting syrup. It’s where the middle of the road goes to die.

  51. Van_Patten

    Theo

    The Guardian editorial does take the biscuit- it was quoted onto my FB feed by a passionate remain supporter – nauseating in the extreme. However, it is possible the guy might have shouted ‘Britain First’ – and so what? I think to make the connection with the UKIP advert this morning is tendentious – to link it with Brexit is as disingenuous as blaming all Muslims for the murder of Lee Rigby – it doesn’t assist anyone….

  52. So Much For Subtlety

    dearieme – “we jail all accountants and lawyers ‘just as a precaution’”

    There is probably a downside to this policy. It would take a moment for me to think of one. But there must be.

  53. So Much For Subtlety

    Van_Patten – “to link it with Brexit is as disingenuous as blaming all Muslims for the murder of Lee Rigby – it doesn’t assist anyone…”

    I don’t think it is disingenuous to blame all Muslims for the murder of Lee Rigby. What the British Muslim community has shown time and time again is that they are totally fine with the sort of incitement that produces those killers. No one has been fired. Not a single teacher or preacher removed from his job. The only thing we hear from the Muslim community is running protection of the extremists.

    Nor is blaming this on the Brexiters pointless. It changes the conversation. Some will believe it. It will distract attention from that other Leftist policy – Care in the Community – which has clearly failed again.

    In the meantime, the rhetoric is getting fairly nauseating. I guess that this sort of Cult of Personality is normal now that most politicians and most journalists come from the same classes. No one would have cared if she had been a hairdresser. But then the modern British state is so much more protective of politicians than ordinary people. Even though so many of them are so ordinary.

    Anyway, I do feel sympathetic to her family. But look at her CV:

    Following her graduation, Cox worked as an adviser to Labour MP Joan Walley, before moving to Brussels to spend two years advising Glenys Kinnock, who was then a Member of the European Parliament. She became an aid worker in developing countries for Oxfam, eventually becoming the charity’s head of policy. Her charity work later led to a role advising Sarah Brown (the wife of former British Prime Minister Gordon Brown), who was spearheading a campaign to prevent deaths in pregnancy and childbirth.[5][11] She was national chair of the Labour Women’s Network and a senior adviser to the Freedom Fund, an anti-slavery charity.[8][9]
    Political career

    Cox was nominated by the Labour Party to contest the Batley and Spen seat being vacated by Mike Wood in the 2015 general election.[12] She was selected as a candidate for a seat via an all-women shortlist.[6] The Batley and Spen constituency is generally a safe seat for Labour,[13] and Cox won the seat with 43.2% of the vote.[14]

    Cox was one of 36 Labour MPs to nominate Jeremy Corbyn as a candidate in the Labour leadership election of 2015.[15] However, in the election she voted for Liz Kendall

    Never had a real job. Never been outside the SPAD/MP bubble. She would have done more for Britain if she had been a hairdresser.

    The Syrian Civil War was one of Cox’s main campaigning issues.[10] In October 2015 she co-authored, with Conservative MP Andrew Mitchell, an article in The Observer arguing that British military forces could help achieve an ethical solution to the conflict in Syria.[18] During that month Cox launched the All Party Parliamentary Friends of Syria group, becoming its chair.[19][20] In the subsequent vote to approve UK military intervention against ISIL in Syria, Cox abstained (one of five Labour MPs to do so),[6] as she did not consider the intervention to be part of an effective comprehensive strategy to tackle the Syrian conflict including dealing with President Bashar al-Assad.

    So she wanted British intervention in Syria but not *that* intervention in Syria. There may well be a logic to this. But it escapes me.

  54. So Much For Subtlety

    Ironman – “Not bollocks, not a lie, he did it. You called it a lie but you are the liar. I can see why you wannabe Nazis don’t like it …. Oh how quick you jumped up to declare it “made up evil bollocks”. It’s not though AND YOU KNOW it!”

    So. Can we have a further comment from Rusty? Care to explain how you know the internal workings of someone else’s mind? How do you know that anyone lied?

    Applying the same standard to your own comment, how truthyfullness would you say it was?

  56. PJF

    Anyway, I do feel sympathetic to her family. But look at her CV:

    I share the sympathy, and the “but” is misplaced. We live in a functional democracy, so she could have stood for “piss-Christ”, “import-the-Palestinians” and “repatriate-the-Elgin-Marbles-on-the-back-of-the-Cecil-Rhodes-hate-crimes-statue” – and still deserve our unqualified support against being a victim of violence, especially if political.

    The (I hope) joke “hang ’em from the lamp posts” aspect of this blog is good for a comedy rant, but I’d like to think that most people here think that so long as we have the genuine opportunity to vote the bastards out, then arseholes like Anders Breivik should really hang.

    At the time of writing, the death of Jo Cox looks like some horrible, local, random shit. I hope for the sake of our country that that’s all it was.

  57. So Much For Subtlety

    PJF – “I share the sympathy, and the “but” is misplaced. …. and still deserve our unqualified support against being a victim of violence, especially if political.”

    I am not happy about that “especially if political”. As I said, no one would have cared if she was a hairdresser. But we should. I also don’t think the “but” is misplaced. I don’t want to speak ill of the dead and what I was trying to say is that this woman really should not have been in Parliament – not that she should have been killed. It is a mark of the decline of Parliament that someone with this sort of background was elected.

    “then arseholes like Anders Breivik should really hang.”

    So they should.

    “At the time of writing, the death of Jo Cox looks like some horrible, local, random shit. I hope for the sake of our country that that’s all it was.”

    We have had political violence in Britain already. A Muslim student stabbed an MP but didn’t kill him. We will get there in the end. A Diverse society is a violent society. I like the Local Surgeries. I will be saddened when they go away.

    Still in the end the real villain here is the media who cynically exploited this to smear the Brexit campaign – and people like Rusty who got on his High Horse in an effort to do likewise.

  59. John Galt

    dearieme – “we jail all accountants and lawyers ‘just as a precaution’”

    There is probably a downside to this policy. It would take a moment for me to think of one. But there must be.

    Given the “precautionary principle”, surely those we can act, MUST ACT. I’ll don my “Captain UK” cape and underwear and start performing citizens arrests on all of the lawyers and accountants in my High Street first thing tomorrow.

  60. Jack C

    Well said PJF.

    SMFS,
    It’s scarcely her fault that these political / NGO career paths exist, and very beguiling they are too.

    Don’t forget, that the corporate world was there first, with teenage auditors and consultants. She could have chosen that route, and for little or no extra effort been paid considerably more.

    There’s a reason that 2nd Lieutenants are paid poorly and treated with no more respect than their expertise commands (ie none at all). But then the army can’t afford to piss around.

    A dreadful business.

  61. PJF

    “…and what I was trying to say is that this woman really should not have been in Parliament – not that she should have been killed.”

    I definitely get (x1000) that you weren’t saying she should have been killed. I would hope you could understand that my comment about (if it was) specifically political violence was related to the standing of properly elected parliamentarians in a functional democracy. And yes, random hairdressers (law abiding and causing no harm) do not deserve violence either.

    Jo Cox had the highest qualification possible for being in Parliament. She managed to convince a bigger group of people in her constituency than all her rivals did. That’s all there is to it.

  62. So Much For Subtlety

    Jack C – “It’s scarcely her fault that these political / NGO career paths exist, and very beguiling they are too.”

    But it is her fault that she chose them – and it is the fault of the Labour Party that they chose her over Old Labour style members of the actual working class. She benefited from Affirmative Action for SPADs, especially female SPADs, every step of the way.

    “Don’t forget, that the corporate world was there first, with teenage auditors and consultants. She could have chosen that route, and for little or no extra effort been paid considerably more.”

    And she would have learned more and contributed more.

    PJF – “Jo Cox had the highest qualification possible for being in Parliament. She managed to convince a bigger group of people in her constituency than all her rivals did. That’s all there is to it.”

    indeed. But it is a terrible reflection on the voters and the general state of British democracy that they should have done so. A feckless electorate will not have the vote for long.

  63. PJF

    “I’m sure Ironman will be along to apologise…..”

    I’m pretty unconcerned about emotional outbursts immediately following disturbing events.

    His long term, ingrained dick-headedness however…

  64. Mr Ecks

    “She managed to convince a bigger group of people in her constituency than all her rivals did. That’s all there is to it.”

    Hardly. In a safe ZaNu seat?

    Paradoxicallyshe was put in by the same “My Dad voted Labour” voters who also despise the EU.

  65. Ironman

    Henry Crun

    Apologise? To cunts like the Thick.Racist.Prick who describes her kn the very day she dies as “this woman”? Apologise for repeating the eye witness accounts (which vile cunts on this blog have sought to deny) say g they clearly heard him shout “Britain First”?

    No. The truth isyou’ve been shown up. Each time a nutter shouts Allah Akbar you take it as indicative of Muslims. Yet here we have a vicious far right group plying the same tease as the Islamists and you’re all outraged innocence.

    But the final word must always go to S.M.F
    S; I.could never do him the justice he can do himself:
    “Anyway, I do feel sympathetic to her family. But look at her CV.”

  66. John Galt

    Hmmm…Yes, I see what you mean chaps.

    Ironman actually is a cunt of the highest order. Trying to make capital out of the death of an MP at the hands of one of her mentally ill constituents.

    That really is a fucking shitty thing to do. You should be ashamed of yourself.

  68. PJF

    It now looks like the political violence angle (Britain First) is going to survive the confusion of the first day. A very, very grim day for the country.

  69. So Much For Subtlety

    Ironman – “Apologise for repeating the eye witness accounts (which vile cunts on this blog have sought to deny) say g they clearly heard him shout “Britain First”?”

    Name the eye witness.

  70. So Much For Subtlety

    dearieme – “It’s wrong to kill MPs, especially peace-loving MPs who want to bomb the shit out of Syria.”

    Who got elected on a platform of bombing Syria. Who stood up in Parliament and demanded we bomb Syria. Who founded, and was the Chair, of the Parliamentary group asking for bombing Syria. And who then voted in Parliament against bombing Syria.

    In the same way she nominated Corbyn and then voted for someone else.

  71. dearieme

    “And who then voted in Parliament against bombing Syria.”

    Are you sure? I had the impression that she abstained on the grounds that it would be the wrong sort of bombing-the-shit-out-of-Syria.

  72. dearieme

    I am fascinated by the question of whether the cry of “Britain First” was a fabrication. A quick (perhaps too quick) scan of the story in the Mail shows people alleging that other people heard the cry, but nobody seems to claim to have heard it himself.

    I invite Tim to start a thread in the morning devoted to the question of whether it was fabricated, and if so by whom. What’s required is an ear-witness who claimed shortly after the attack to have heard it. People making the claim 24 hours later, when they will have been infected by the story, and attracted by the blaze of publicity, are of little use.

  73. So Much For Subtlety

    dearieme – “Are you sure? I had the impression that she abstained on the grounds that it would be the wrong sort of bombing-the-shit-out-of-Syria.”

    I stand corrected. I am not sure what the wrong sort of bombing is – or what sort of bombing she had in mind. But it looks like she objected to bombing ISIS all by itself. She also wanted to bomb Asad’s government out of office.

    It is not often you see a Leftist arguing for even more bombing plus, I assume, a ground invasion. Well, not if the country is to the Left of Sweden.

  74. John Galt

    I am fascinated by the question of whether the cry of “Britain First” was a fabrication. A quick (perhaps too quick) scan of the story in the Mail shows people alleging that other people heard the cry, but nobody seems to claim to have heard it himself.

    The guy was on the BBC News at 10:00 PM on 16/06/2016, so if you go to the “BBCiPlayer” website you can see his interview and make your own view.

    He’s not sure if the guy said “Britain First” or “Put Britain first”, but that is what it sounded to him like and he said it twice.

  75. So Much For Subtlety

    Ironman – “Apologise? To cunts like the Thick.Racist.Prick who describes her kn the very day she dies as “this woman”?”

    Really? That is insensitive these days? The things you learn on the internet. It used to be more socially acceptable.

    Teacher, this woman was caught in the very act of committing adultery. …. ‘Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?’

    There is a bit in the middle Rusty might do well to learn.

  76. So Much For Subtlety

    John Galt

    If this is Graeme Howard he did not see the attack. He is not an eye witness.

    Also there are pictures of the police arresting the man. He claimed the killer continued to shout the slogan. The pictures don’t really look like it. But we will see. At the moment no one can really know.

  77. Edward Lud

    Ironman, “Each time a nutter shouts Allah Akbar you take it as indicative of Muslims. Yet here we have a vicious far right group plying the same tease as the Islamists and you’re all outraged innocence.”

    I’ll assume by “group” you mean “man”. But ok, if we are to be outraged with Brexit for putting this man up to it, so outraged in fact that we vote Remain then, given the vastly greater numbers murdered and maimed by jihadis everyday, what is the appropriate response to Islam?

    If we reject Brexit because of the actions of one murderer, would we not be entitled to – whisper it – reject Islam because of the actions of multitudes more murderers?

  78. Van_Patten

    SMFS

    So much for the theory that you and I are different facets of the same schizoid personality…

    ‘I don’t think it is disingenuous to blame all Muslims for the murder of Lee Rigby. What the British Muslim community has shown time and time again is that they are totally fine with the sort of incitement that produces those killers. No one has been fired. Not a single teacher or preacher removed from his job. The only thing we hear from the Muslim community is running protection of the extremists.’

    There have been numerous reports from the intelligence services that plots have been foiled by co-operation from within the Muslim community – these don’t usually make headlines because I imagine the Security services want to protect their assets and contacts within those communities. I am fairly certain extremist preachers are removed from Mosques on a semi-regular basis (or not even allowed in) but again it makes no headlines because it isn’t the kind of story that sells newspapers. I like to think you and I have always remained on civil terms on these pages but I think you can’t say ‘all Muslims’ are totally fine with the incitement that caused incidents like the Rigby murder – I don’t think it’s the ‘less than 1 in 100’ figure quoted by the Guardian either but both position seem to be to be a bit OTT.

    ‘In the meantime, the rhetoric is getting fairly nauseating. I guess that this sort of Cult of Personality is normal now that most politicians and most journalists come from the same classes. No one would have cared if she had been a hairdresser. But then the modern British state is so much more protective of politicians than ordinary people. Even though so many of them are so ordinary.’

    I think I can agree that the quality of politician has never been so low – even in comparison with the 1980s it’s pretty woeful – however, I’m not sure that justifies them being shot up in the street. How to get round that is the question – should people have to have compulsorily worked in the Frontline Public Sector or the Private Sector before they can run for Parliament?

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