Independence Day

“There are 183 countries in the world who have independence days – what we have just done is we voted to become the 184th,” he said with relish.

Actually, I live in a country where they have three. There’s independence from Spain day, then the national day, then the independence from the fascists in 1974 day.

And why not a June 23 Independence Day? To be celebrated by putting on a slightly dodgy suit and having a pint and a fag outside the pub?

Or even, now that we are free, a fag inside the pub, if the landlord allows?

26 thoughts on “Independence Day”

  1. Come, cheer up, my lads, ’tis to glory we steer,
    To add something more to this wonderful year;
    To honour we call you, as freemen not slaves,
    For who are so free as the sons of the waves?

    Chorus:
    Heart of Oak are our ships,
    Jolly Tars are our men,
    We always are ready: Steady, boys, Steady!
    We’ll fight and we’ll conquer again and again.

    We ne’er see our foes but we wish them to stay,
    They never see us but they wish us away;
    If they run, why we follow, and run them ashore,
    For if they won’t fight us, what can we do more?

    (Chorus)

    They say they’ll invade us these terrible foe,
    They frighten our women, our children, our beaus,
    But if should their flat-bottoms, in darkness set oar,
    Still Britons they’ll find to receive them on shore.

    (Chorus)

    We still make them feel and we still make them flee,
    And drub them ashore as we drub them at sea,
    Then cheer up me lads with one heart let us sing,
    Our soldiers and sailors, our statesmen and king.

    (Chorus X2)

  2. That Telegraph story makes for sad reading on a happy day.

    I just don’t get what’s going on with the Leave people.

    Farage, Carswell, Gove, Johnson- individually they seem like good people, with a common cause, and an ability to interact with other people in such a way as to gain their support.

    But put them togther…

    Farage is unable to work with Carswell, his only MP.

    Carswell appears not to be on speaking terms with Farage, his own party leader. And, despite having been elected for UKIP, doesn’t appear to have campaigned to Leave. I know there was a row over Short money, but that’s a disagreement that seems to have been taken a long way.

    Johnson and Gove… no idea how they get on behind the scenes, but at least they can stand up in front of the cameras and look good… along with Gisela Stuart (Lab). But they won’t do cross-party co-operation with Farage. Or is it that he won’t co-operate with them?

    I know it’s quite normal for people in politics to detest their own allies, but the main parties usually manage to paper over the cracks enough to work together. I considered joining UKIP, but was put off by all this stuff.

    So what’s going on with Leave?

  3. I would rather like to see May day ( bank holiday), socialist construct that it is, moved to June 23rd. Sort of “to rub their noses in it” to echo Mandelson and his thoughts on immigration.

  4. Cars well definitely campaigned – it was all over his Twitter feed. Selfies with folks on the street, gladhanding activists, that sort of thing.

  5. CJ Nerd: “.. the main parties usually manage to paper over the cracks enough to work together.”

    For a while. But then what happens?

    Maybe the Leave people are just more honest?

  6. Geoff Taylor: “Carswell definitely campaigned – it was all over his Twitter feed. Selfies with folks on the street, gladhanding activists, that sort of thing”

    Oh, good. I followed the campaign but didn’t see anything of him- maybe it was just a media thing.

    JuliaM: “Maybe the Leave people are just more honest?”

    There’s a lovely what-you-see-is-what-you-get thing about Farage.

    There’s the (possibly apocryphal) story that when the French statesman Talleyrand died, his archrival, Prince Metternich of Austria, was heard to muse, “I wonder what he meant by that?”.

    Farage is the complete opposite. When he said he thought Leave had narrowly lost, it wasn’t because he had a Mandelson figure telling him to say that in order to gain some devious advantage. I 100% believe he said it because, just like me, he thought Leave had lost.

    I don’t just support these people- I like them, I like Farage, and I like Carswell. So sad. So sad. It’s a sad sad situation.

    And, far more seriously, it could affect how our EU exit negotiations are done. 🙁

  7. Bloke in North Dorset

    Leave isn’t (wasn’t ) a political party, just a single issue movement and now that it’s aims have been achieved will be disbanded. It’s easy for politicians of different political views to come together on single issues, we see it all the time in Parliament, the problem comes when priorities have to be set and compromises made.

    Arguably UKIP had lost its raison d’etre and could be disbanded.

  8. Freedomis a value that must be extended not merely defended.

    Human beings are plagued with ego. All groups of humans are riven with conflict.

    Under free markets self-interest drives forward human progress.

    With political–ie coercion-based– groups ego-boosting and ego-conflict is inevitable.

    Which is why the world needs as much freedom and markets and as little politics as possible.

    We must however keep our differences under control until we have kicked the crap out of statism and socialism. Those who want to make all of life about politics and coercion. With their gang calling the shots. We must be at least as good at putting our differences aside as those vermin are.

  9. “Arguably UKIP had lost its raison d’etre and could be disbanded.”
    Surely UKIP can now become the UK’s party of small government. I hope that, in part, the Referendum result is a sign that the British people want less government, less regulation, less lifestyle nannying, etc etc. The Tories are becoming more and more authoritarian and interventionist, and the Liberal Democrats have forgotten the ‘Liberal’ bit. UKIP could represent the people who think who think that a British adult should occasionally be allowed to make their own decisions? The UK Independence-from-politicians Party?

  10. Independence sounds a bit OTT and I certainly will not be celebrating this every year. That’s new state building propaganda. We already have a state and its accoutrements, In a couple of years it will have a few less restrictions on what it can and can’t do. The attraction of Brexit was always that rather than pointing at the EU giving a gallic shrug and saying sorry folks thems the rules British politicians are now going to have to earn their keep.

  11. Bloke in North Dorset: “Leave isn’t (wasn’t ) a political party, just a single issue movement and now that it’s aims have been achieved will be disbanded. (…)
    Arguably UKIP had lost its raison d’etre and could be disbanded.”

    I hope not. The referendum is a step towards leaving, but now there’s a long slog of renegotiation.

    There’ll be EU politicans wanting to punish us for leaving, and European politicans wanting (not unreasonably) to get the best possible deal for their countries.

    Against that, we risk sending negotiatiors who may accept bad terms with an I-told-you-so attitude, and negotiators whose mindset has been captured by the EU way of doing things.

    I’d want a healthy dose of Euroskepticism in our negotiating teams.

  12. It’s hardly independence day.

    Isn’t it traditionally when someone signs something in front of someone else?

  13. bloke (temporarily not) in spain

    “Or even, now that we are free, a fag inside the pub, if the landlord allows? ”

    There’s nothing stopping you now. I had a fag with my (Leffe) beer in a bar in Belgium, yesterday evening. Couple days ago I was smoking in La Gloriana’s bar near my apartment. (Popular with the local cops, it is. Think they’re going to enforce the law on themselves?)
    The reason you can’t do the same in the UK is entirely British.

  14. The Meissen Bison

    CJ Nerd: There’ll be EU politicians wanting to punish us for leaving

    I doubt it. There will certainly be some who will be angry that Brexit will add strength to anti-EU movements in their countries but the only country so far threatening to punish the UK is Obama’s US which mercifully hasn’t much time left to run.

    The EU will seek to hand out punishment wholesale and I’m sure that Mrs Merkel will work behind the scenes to keep Juncker (especially) and Schulz in check.

    …and European politicians wanting (not unreasonably) to get the best possible deal for their countries.

    All 27 of them. Which is why pragmatism will rule the day.

    An interesting side issue is this: the EU has been beavering away in the background for years to take over a permanent seat on the UN Security Council in place of France and the UK. How is that looking now?

  15. Bloke in North Dorset

    “Against that, we risk sending negotiators who may accept bad terms with an I-told-you-so attitude, and negotiators whose mindset has been captured by the EU way of doing things. ”

    Which is why I think Cameron did the right thing yesterday. There’s no rush, get a new PM in place, form a steering group, ideally cross party, to draft our position and select negotiating teams (many teams as different issues to resolve) and then start.

    The EU might not be professional about it but no reason why we shouldn’t be. This is for the long term, no need to make it harder by being hasty.

    As for wanting a 2nd referendum, they’re delusional. They keep wittering on about the EU reforming or offering concessions, the EU is not going to offer concessions to us that will be acceptable. The out vote falls loosely in to two camps:

    Those who see immigration as the issue and they aren’t going to get anything that limits free movement and;

    Those who want a small liberal Government and turkeys haven’t been known to vote for Christmas.

    Whilst those 2 camps aren’t mutually exclusive neither can be satisfied by anything the EU can offer.

  16. Bloke in North Dorset

    If we are to have an independence day it has to be the day the the 1972 European Communities Act is repealed, that is the day we leave the EU.

  17. “UKIP can now become the UK’s party of small government”

    UKIP will now move Left and become the depository for all the small c conservatives in the North who voted Leave but would never vote Tory. There’s a rich seam to be mined, and it would give UKIP a raison d’etre now its single issue is done, and have the added advantage of giving those people a democratic voice they’ve been lacking for decades.

  18. An interesting side issue is this: the EU has been beavering away in the background for years to take over a permanent seat on the UN Security Council in place of France and the UK. How is that looking now?

    No problem, I’m sure the French would be extremely happy to hand over their seat for the greater glory of the EU.

  19. “The reason you can’t do the same in the UK is entirely British.”

    Spot on. A lot of the reasons people voted Brexit was actually due to British civil servants gold plating EU regs.

    The leave vote doesn’t address this.

  20. The leave vote doesn’t address this.

    It does remove the “Sorry, the EU made us do it” lie from the parasites’ arsenal though.

  21. How great a threat to Britain was the EU? The Continental Mycelia would have killed you just as dead as bombs.

    This may mark the beginning of the end of the global government movement. If so, it deserves a great holiday!

  22. Johnnydub

    It’s a fair point, but the hope would be that they might learn to refrain from gold plating things that no longer exist…

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