LONDON — BREAKING up is never easy. But how do you break up with a country?
That’s the question that I — along with many fellow Britons — am asking now that the country has voted to leave the European Union.
Don’t get me wrong. I’ve grudgingly accepted that 52 percent of my fellow citizens wanted to leave the European Union, a 70-year-old project that has united much of Europe into a somewhat unwieldy economic and social colossus, allowing roughly 500 million people to travel and work unhindered from Ireland to Greece.
But for me, those benefits — particularly as a reporter who has lived and worked across the Continent — are worth holding on to. And that’s why, with a heavy heart, I’m applying to become an Irish citizen, saying goodbye to Britain just as it wants to say goodbye to Europe.
Absolutely super I say. Isn’t this competing nation states thing lovely? Those who want one lifestyle can go somewhere and have that. Spiffing I call that. The only thing that would be non-spiffing is insisting that everywhere must be as you like it, denying other exactly that same choice.
Yup, the only thing that scares me about Brexit is similar types to him in our negotiating teams doing a half-arsed job to serve us right.
Torygraph today has a story saying we’re now supplicants to the deal the EU offers us and will be treated worse than Greece. We are a sovereign country and do not need to follow their orders.
What is wrong with these people?
But he’s not saying goodbye to Britain – he wants to acquire dual nationality – so as virtue-signalling goes it’s a bit feeble.
OK, bye.
I remember the good old days when Lefties would laugh and point at celebrities who swore they would leave the country if Labour won the election. Happy days.
What TMB said.
Good luck to him if he wants to bog off to Ireland.
But he doesn’t, natch. He just wants to wave around his gay little EU passport like a girl hoping people notice her sparkly new handbag.
BTW I hope we bring back proper British passports with the black covers.
You all seem very confident that this is going to work out. I wish I could feel the same way.
The funny thing is that if it did become independent it would be everything these people hate.
Right now, London is a great deal about being the capital of a bigger country. It gets half the arts spending, most of the billions spent by the BBC and a whole load of other money. If they left, well, the rest of the UK isn’t going to be shipping £3bn to London for the BBC. We’ll have it where the new capital is. We aren’t going to have our national theatre there, or our equivalent of Whitehall. Lottery money from players in Truro and Newcastle will go on an opera house in Birmingham or Oxford and all the jobs that creates.
Which means that the jobs in London will be city types, if anything. It’ll turn into something more like Singapore, which will mean it’ll be far more Conservative than these people can imagine – a government of the likes of Hannan and Redwood.
Charlie – a wise man called Holly Johnson says relax.
Getting a majority to vote Leave was the hard bit. It’s the greatest political news this country has had in decades.
The media’s collective vag is full of sand over it, Guardianistas are guzzling antidepressants and Dioralyte by the handful, and the political class is skittering about like Chinese cockle pickers at high tide.
It’s beautiful.
And everything’s going to be fine.
Charlie Suet:
That is called life Charlie. And I can make you a promise. It will be alright for a while and then you’ll die. So it isn’t going to be alright–or maybe it is if their is more to it than meets the eye.
So you have uncertainty as well–and there is nothing you can really do.
You can join the mugs and trade your freedom for the promise that some bunch of cunts–the EU in this context–will look after you and all you have to do in return is jump when they shout frog.
Those are however bogus promises and a fool’s bargain. You will spend a lot of time jumping and paying and working so you can afford to pay but somehow the security never arrives.
The EU will fall. The whole world is in enormous financial trouble and worse times are coming. We can get thro them better as Britain, free to act in our own interests than as a satrap in a corrupt useless socialistic empire rotten with Cultural Marxism and arrogance.
The new Double Irish :-).
But will it unravel is Murphaloon persuades them that dual citizens should get taxed in two places?
“Which means that the jobs in London will be city types, if anything. It’ll turn into something more like Singapore, which will mean it’ll be far more Conservative than these people can imagine – a government of the likes of Hannan and Redwood.”
A ‘country’ entirely dependent on the City for economic survival, but run by lunatics whose expressed aim is to destroy Capitalism.
“Those who want one lifestyle can go somewhere and have that.”
Well only if you qualify for another European citizenship. Most Remain voters won’t.
If it was just the freedom of movement I would have supported remain, I personally think that free movement of citizens between countries is a net positive for the countries involved. It’s the rest of the EU project that I object to.
We damn well should be fine – the UK has been a giant tied down by pygmies per Gulliver.
As soon as we can all realise that we don’t have to accept any punitive deal the EU foists at us we’ll be sorted.
Real question: what can the EU threaten us with, also that we can’t give them back in spades?
That depends whether the people negotiating on our behalf have managed to scrounge up a spine and a working pair of testicles from somewhere.
As soon as we know who they are bombard them with missives in all media that leave them in no doubt of what we expect.
Only day 3 but no time to rest on our laurel’s.
Ah! He can hold on to his dual citizenship too! Nurse! Nurse!
Not in the US where you penned this piece, you shill I’ve never heard of.
Mr Ecks,
Quite. Is it too late to join the Conservatives to vote for the leader? 3 month qualifying period.
“Is it too late to join the Conservatives to vote for the leader”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservative_Party_(UK)_leadership_election,_2016
Probably? As we are now almost certainly less than 3 months from circa the likely date of the final ballot of the Parliamentary party, ie before the final two are then put to the members? All to be well wrapped up before Conference.
Something people on both sides of the debate don’t seem to have realised is that we didn’t have a referendum on immigration. Immigration and free movement were certainly issues but that’s not what was on the ballot paper.
Personally (full disclosure: I’m an immigrant) I’m not that concerned about immigration. I voted leave to get out of the EU bureaucracy and ever closer union thing and I think that there’s plenty of others who feel the same.
For those for whom immigration is an issue moving to the EEA/EFTA will offer some potential restrictions. The ASI paper on this option is quite good and I recommend people read it:
http://www.adamsmith.org/evolution-not-revolution
‘allowing roughly 500 million people to travel and work unhindered from Ireland to Greece.’
Don’t forget the 10,000,000 nice people from the Middle East.
Except the EU is a 24 year project – it was a Customs Union until 1992.
And… for someone who has worked and lived across the Continent he should know that… ‘to travel and work unhindered from Ireland to Greece’ is a fantasy not a reality.
Take your pizza van and work the highways and byways of France and see how unhindered you are from the Fisc and others who don’t like competition.
Try and get a job in a BMW factory in Germany, start a builders business in Greece or a ristorante in Italy.
And as proof of his man-of-the-world, sophisticated outlook, he’s going to become …… Irish!
He’s joining the people who’ve twice voted against the EU in a referendum, before standing on their heads when instructed to do so by Brussels.
John B
Or a ski instructor in the French Alps!
PF/ John B
I’m not sure what angle you’re talking from here? I could get a job anywhere in the EU zone. I’d have the same rights as any other EU passport holder.
My best mate did Ski instructing in Val D’Isere for three seasons. There is no restriction. OK, so John B’s examples may be a factor of local forces, but it certainly isn’t a ‘fantasy’.
How come so many English leave to work in Europe?
Can they do that in Australia or the US?
@Lawrence: many Brits do go to work in the US or Australia.
Likewise many from outside the EU (including yours truly) come here to work. Sure, there’s more paper work involved, but that’s no great hardship.
Lawremce.
I’m not sure you’re up to date on this. And not just instructing. If you look at the Ski Club of GB, for example, their resort “repping” service effectively got canned in the last couple of years by the French.
That wasn’t even instruction at all, the French were simply being ultra protective. The irony being the French damaged themselves. Quite often, those people using the repping service (and attracted to resorts where there was such a service) were more likely to create work for the local ski instructors in my experience (“mixed” groups of skiers etc / or guiding days off piste being typical examples).
Perhaps google recent events on this?
Hmm my friends had the necessary qualifs, they said, an it certainly wasn’t repping. True they started by repping, but they went to instructor schools.
Isn’t that the same for any profession?
MattyJ
You still need a visa though, don’t you? You need your ‘points’ upfront.
@Lawrence: sure. So what? Having gone through the process a couple of times, it’s a pain but no great hardship.
In an ideal world we’d be able to go wherever we want, whenever we want and work for whoever we want. But we don’t live in an ideal world. So there’s paperwork.
If the UK introduced a points based system for EU workers, would things change that much? Some people wouldn’t make the cut, but people who’ve got skills to offer would be fine.
Lawrence,
If you ever get time, perhaps try googling “French instruction slalom test compare BASI” or similar, and you’ll get a sense of how the French in effect protect their own nationals on their own soil.
Perhaps your (non French?) mate took / passed the tests within the French system? If so, sure. What they have is a blunt but quite effective method of discriminating..
btw, this should be no surprise, it’s what the French are usually pretty good at..:)
Still not the point, MattyJ.
I can go over to any EU country and start from scratch. A lot of the paperwork is bypassed by being an EU citizen. No one can expect no paperwork to do anything.
I don’t need to queue up for a visa, not that it’s necessarily that much bother, but it’s certainly desirable to not have to.
And what about the EHIC system? Will UK citizens have to pay for private insurance?
We do in Guernsey (I don’t, obvs) even going to the UK!
PF
It’s a normal state of affairs that if you want to instruct or teach anything then you need to be of the standard set by the host country. That’s a completely different point.
You can’t teach English in England if you can’t speak English.
Someone getting a ‘diploma’ of skiing at the dry slopes in Hemel Hempstead is clearly not going to be able to do off-piste up La Grande Motte.
To do that sort of thing is highly specialised.
Even teaching 4 year olds holds a certain responsibility.
Anyway, isn’t that what competition is all about? The French ski industry is highly competitive and I imagine it pays well, it ought to judging how expensive it is to take the lessons.
If you want to be a French instructor, do the relevant tests. That’s nothing to do with free movement of labour being a fantasy.
!? Seriously, I suggest you google it properly! And in any case as you say we have moved somewhat off the issue.
I haven’t got time to get onto English, but no, just no. You do not need to have passed an English test with a quite specific “program / testing standard” – as a wannabe French teacher looking to coach French kids basic level English (willing teacher / willing parents/kids) in London!
Lawrence
“I could get a job anywhere in the EU zone. I’d have the same rights as any other EU passport holder.”
Oh come on now. You can’t can’t get a real job on Guernsey; what makes you think there’s a job for you anywhere?
Larry
Ski repping is a piece of piss. All you need is to not fall over and have a map.
High mountain guiding is hard. And the UK and NZ systems just don’t weed out the incompetents. I wouldn’t trust a Kiwi or a Brit if he threw me a rope with gold medals on it.
PF
It may be that we’re talking different levels of instruction, be it skiing or English.
But my argument is the same whatever, I could get a job relevant to my experience and abilities, without a need to qualify for any nation-state restrictions. I won’t disagree that the French, despite them being the EU’s numéro deux, are able to cock snooks; if they can do it within the EU, why couldn’t we?
You can’t become a secondary school English teacher without relevant quallies. It ain’t TEFL equivalent. The French take skiing seriously. Is that bad?
bif
I take it you’re agreeing with me? It’s a good thing that reppers could not ever be near instruction.
“I wouldn’t trust a Kiwi or a Brit if he threw me a rope with gold medals on it.” Yes, this. If you can’t cut it through the French system then you’re just not good enough to teach skiing.
It’s why the four year olds in France, before they get an aptitude, are surprisingly skillful.
Larnie – My best mate….
Murphy as a ski-instructor is a bit hard to get one’s head around.
@Lawrence – your EHIC is valid in Switzerland. Also Iceland, Liechtenstein and Norway.
And I’m still waiting for evidence those countries are on the average schiteholes from my MEP who fibbed to me that they ‘obey’ and ‘have no say’.
Lawrence,
Yes, you are right. Teaching snow ploughs or intermediate on-piste skiing (or primary school English or even private secondary), as BiF points out, is not the same as either repping or high mountain guiding.
That’s exactly the point. The French (and I suspect you do know this) put up unnecessary obstacles (like the speed slalom test that has nothing to do with “coaching” (as just one example)) that benefit those who have taken the qualification tests specifically “in France” “as they specify”, ie which benefits the people who live and grow up there.
And which are not necessarily at all relevant to the skill levels needed to perform basic ski coaching (or similar type tasks) through the winter in the French Alps. And it’s quite deliberate as we know and you admit (cock snooks).
“I could get a job relevant to my experience and abilities, without a need to qualify for any nation-state restrictions.” – Not in the French Alps you wouldn’t or you risk being arrested, as others have, even if you easily have the skills for the little you are trying to do. Even bloody reps (doing sweet FA, ref BiF!) have been arrested…
“are able to cock snooks; if they can do it within the EU, why couldn’t we?” – Is that the kind of liberal, free trading European Union we aspire to?
I can’t explain it any more simply than that. Well, I probably could, but I’m trying to work (!) and it would only both waste time and irritate me (…), so I’m going to bugger off..:)
…
I was simply agreeing with John B – “that to travel and work unhindered from Ireland to Greece’ is a fantasy not a reality” – not all this follow up..
Gareth Too
“Torygraph today has a story saying we’re now supplicants to the deal the EU offers us and will be treated worse than Greece. We are a sovereign country and do not need to follow their orders.”
Thanks for that. Who is Matthew Holehouse btw? The UK can afford to play hard ball with the EU. In essence, the pitch is: ‘The EU exports c.£350bn-worth pa to the UK, while the UK exports c.£250bn-worth to the EU. The UK receives 16% of the other 27 EU nations total exports and is the fifth largest economy in the world. Either we get free trade without single market membership and without free movement, or we’ll slap tariffs on all your exports to the UK. Now, a trade war isn’t in anybody’s interests; but, if you insist on one, you’ll come off worst.’
Got that Charlie Suet, you soggy dumpling?
I’ve taught English as a foreign Language in China, and had an interview for a summer camp job in Italy on Thursday (!) For China I had to get a visa (2 trips to London and £96 fee). While a hassle I wouldn’t be too upset if I had to get one for future jobs in Europe.
One final observation: the two people in my Facebook timeline that are complaining most about the result are UK expats working in Mexico and Switzerland. Ironic, no?
The suggestion that the Eurocrats are rational is rather refuted by the non-deal they gave Cameron, I should have thought. But we shall see.
Charlie Suet
“The suggestion that the Eurocrats are rational is rather refuted by the non-deal they gave Cameron, I should have thought.”
Cameron screwed up. Before he began negotiating with them, he assured the other EU leaders that he could win the referendum. They were misled and self-deceived. The result was few concessions.
If they choose to be irrational, the UK simply walks, saying this will hurt you more than us. A dramatic cut in UK corporation tax + a small devaluation will make our goods and services more competitive in the EU than the EU’s would be here with a 3% UK tariff. The German manufacturers would soon be in uproar.
Without trade, the EU economies will go down the toilet. They have such anaemic growth rates that any shock will, push them into recession, some into deep recession.
Irrationality would have serious consequences.
Furthermore, if the EU imposes a harsh settlement on the UK – to discourage others from leaving the EU – this would make nursing the eurozone economy back to health more difficult.
Theophrastus
“the UK simply walks, saying this will hurt you more than us”
Come on, Theo, that’s nonsense. If the UK had that much clout, that they could pick up the ball and go home, why hasn’t it been a factor in gaining those concessions various Prime Ministers had been promising the electorate?
It’s clear that the EU as a trading entity values the UK input, but it’s probable that en bloc, they will get even more control over conditions- simply because the UK will have to negotiate at a cellular level; pay more than present for the privilege, get no rebate for our efforts, in order to achieve the same levels of “no red tape”.
How can there be fewer regulations and less red tape trading from outside?
Will “we”, as in the Timothy Worstall “we”, undo and repeal the directives that have enabled trade and improved standards in common with 27 other countries?
There is nothing like “we’re all free from CM leftist statist scum that seek to control our lives” or, “now we are FREE, to do what we want, any old time”.
Farage, and Timothy as his shameless cheerleader, and all you who are spunking in your pants, are simply not being realistic.
We will have fuck all cards on the table – maybe at a large corporate level, but for ‘the man on the street’ who voted to stop immigration and “take control”, they’ve been lied to.
If the UK had that much clout, that they could pick up the ball and go home, why hasn’t it been a factor in gaining those concessions various Prime Ministers had been promising the electorate?
Can’t you work that out for yourself Larnster? Try harder.
Is that why you choose to live in Portugal, Tim? So you can tell us how to live our lives while not being around to see what is happening?
Has-Bean–Just like your boy Arnold?
“Come on, Theo, that’s nonsense. If the UK had that much clout, that they could pick up the ball and go home, why hasn’t it been a factor in gaining those concessions various Prime Ministers had been promising the electorate?”
You must wear asbestos pants you lying shit-house clerk.
There NEVER was any negotiation or intent to negotiate. Camoron was running a scam with his EU pals but they let their arrogance–born of always getting their way– get the better of them.
“It’s clear that the EU as a trading entity values the UK input, but it’s probable that en bloc, they will get even more control over conditions- simply because the UK will have to negotiate at a cellular level; pay more than present for the privilege, get no rebate for our efforts, in order to achieve the same levels of “no red tape”.”
That is meaningless bullshit–at a “cellular” level. Too many years slinging vapid Marxist jargon has rotted what little grey matter you had.
“How can there be fewer regulations and less red tape trading from outside?”
Easy–on our side. Not on theirs –or yours because you are soul-shrivelled little slug who can’t imagine a world were the scum of the state don’t give you permission to breathe.
“Will “we”, as in the Timothy Worstall “we”, undo and repeal the directives that have enabled trade and improved standards in common with 27 other countries?”
If you mean that there are lots of slugs in ZaNu/BluLabour who don’t want their authoritarian world disrupted and will try to sabotage any increased level of freedom you are right.
“There is nothing like “we’re all free from CM leftist statist scum that seek to control our lives” or, “now we are FREE, to do what we want, any old time”.”
So the dictatorship of bureaucratic and political scum is established for all time is it Larri? You better hope not you red-arsed baboon . Because there is NO future for the human race if statism, socialism and tyranny win out.
“Farage, and Timothy as his shameless cheerleader, and all you who are spunking in your pants, are simply not being realistic.”
Realism being the acceptance of evil and authoritarian dictat for the rest of our days.
And you and your Gladrag pals and the SJWs are the ones shitting your pants Lars.
And with good reason. Because the ordinary people of this world have had a bellyful of elites and the tin gods of socialism.
We are only just getting started and you and your fellow leftist buddies are going to taste a lot of shoeleather.
“We will have fuck all cards on the table – maybe at a large corporate level, but for ‘the man on the street’ who voted to stop immigration and “take control”, they’ve been lied to.”
There is no “we” Larri and the only one lying is you. Cos you just can’t help yourself or stop.
‘It’s clear that the EU as a trading entity values the UK input’
People don’t trade with the EU. They trade with people/companies in the EU. The EU is a grand scheme to interfere with trade.
Bison
Why yes, I have worked it out! It’s quite simple, really. The English are suspicious about countries in Europe getting together and making plans. Who knows, Blitzkrieg Thanet and we”ll all be talking Esperanto before high tea..
So we go into negotiations, with that sentiment as our headwind, and get met with blank and amused faces, and a massive dose of gallic shrugs.
The UK has always been standoff-ish about the whole agenda. Fair enough. At every turn the UK has tried to carve out exceptions. Fair enough. Suddenly, something’s happened, someone farted in a lift, or looked at someone with a funny ‘air’, or Farage got challenged over his expenses. Maybe it was a sop to the divisions in the Conservative party.
Why is it that small minded people want to cast uncertainty in an already uncertain, small minded country?
Or Bison, are you going to tell me that now we are ‘liberated’ the sky is the fucking limit?
I’ll agree this: we failed at getting the most out of the EU project, but that means we failed full stop. Nothing ever has held the UK back, it’s simply a case that now, our domestic politics have now reduced any chance for the younger generations to fight on a level playing field and prove their patriotism after this generational betrayal.
Yes, Mr Bean.
Timothy loves to throw around the “we” and yet his entire raison d’etre is dependent on the EU and access to markets facilitated by being in the EU.
He cries with joy because Farage is some sort of saint for lying permanently through his teeth for twenty years, but still, oo, he loves his Portugal. The Portugal that is probably suffering from all this uncertainty.
I guess a book could be opened with a spread betting on exactly how patriotic he really is, guessing outcomes in the mid term.
Of course long-term, everyone wins, sez he.
Following this monumentally momentus Patriotic Repatriation of Patriotic Patriotism, who is certain?
Larry – You are a card.
Why yes, I have worked it out! It’s quite simple, really. The English are suspicious about countries in Europe getting together and making plans. Who knows, Blitzkrieg Thanet and we”ll all be talking Esperanto before high tea..
So we go into negotiations, with that sentiment as our headwind, and get met with blank and amused faces, and a massive dose of gallic shrugs.
Because our civil service is full of Doc Martened bovver boys with the cross of St George tattooed on their knuckles, apparently. Not to mention those notorious thugs, the Kinnocks.
Back in the real world, we tried our best to be good Europeans, zealously implementing every pettifogging regulation and directive to the point of jailing people for the heinous crime of selling a pound of bananas.
We tried for 40 years to steer the EU in a more free-market, less federal superstatey direction, but our continental chums want very different things.
For that reason, we were always bound to leave at some point. We’ve been papering over the cracks between us and the EU since 1992. But they’ve grown into chasms.
So the mature, decent and dignified thing to do is what we’re doing: leave, and wish the Germans and their debt colonies bon courage in their stated goal of obliterating their own nationhood to pursue ever-closer union.
our domestic politics have now reduced any chance for the younger generations to fight on a level playing field and prove their patriotism after this generational betrayal.
IIRC you don’t have any kids, Lawrence. I’m a father, and I voted Leave to give the wee ones the best inheritance they can possibly receive: their own homeland.
If there is no agreement in the 2 year negotiation period after Article 50 is invoked, and although its early days I think this may be likely, we apparently revert to WTO trading rules. Anyone have a brief outline of what these entail?
Larnie Question: If the UK had that much clout, that they could pick up the ball and go home, why hasn’t it been a factor in gaining those concessions various Prime Ministers had been promising the electorate?
Larnie answer to Larnie Question: Why yes, I have worked it out! It’s quite simple, really. The English are suspicious about countries in Europe getting together and making plans. Who knows, Blitzkrieg Thanet and we”ll all be talking Esperanto before high tea.
Have you been drinking the Tomorite© rather than giving it to your charges?
Now I don’t want to be unkind but if TIS is correct when he says IIRC you don’t have any kids, Lawrence then you ought to spare us stuff like you who are spunking in your pants because it’s not elegant and because it exposes an underbelly that I for one should prefer you kept hidden.
” it’s simply a case that now, our domestic politics have now reduced any chance for the younger generations to fight on a level playing field and prove their patriotism after this generational betrayal.”
If you are going to peddle evil as a wannabe propagandist Arnald–at least try for a little credibility in the mass of lies.
Does anyone out there besides your fellow leftpukes believe that you give one, let alone two, shits for “patriotism” or “level playing-fields”.
You are simply an arch leftist liar who has the extra problem of being off your lithium.
Also incoherent rambling is not a very good approach. Coherent rambling might bore some into submission but repeated “WTF does that mean?” moments have little persuasive force.
eg:”Following this monumentally momentus Patriotic Repatriation of Patriotic Patriotism, who is certain?”
The certainty that you are a fucking mental case as well as evil is inescapable
Andy, if you were working in China on a £96 visa from the embassy you were working illegally mate.
The hoops you have to jump through to get a work permit take months.
So far as I can tell, the problem right now is finding anyone who is prepared to start the fucking process. “Vote Leave” seem to think that everyone voted for them and they “own” the process, when we voted for an action, not the appointed campaign and expect it acted upon (as Vernon Bogdanor said in vain on the morning of the vote as Hannan sat next to him peddling the “no rush and anyone expecting migration controls was mistaken, LOL” narrative.
Meanwhile the Tory Party has decided that having a scrap over the leadership is the order of the day, and apparently the supposed Leavers want Osborne to stay on as Chancellor Of The Exchequer(!), Carswell is more interested in having a go at Farage and “Kippers” than actually leaving the EU and the only Tory I can find who wants any action at all is John Redwood, who appears to be outside the Cabal anyway.
Career before Party, Party before Country.
The Queen needs to call Cameron to the Palace, tell him he no longer runs her government, and appoint somebody who is prepared to. Since the people have given a direct instruction, the Commons can be overruled with the Royal Perogative, since they are not sovereign on an issue where we’ve voted directly.
Rees-Mogg, Redwood, Hoey, Field, Stuart, Farage as a non-parliamentary minister of Sticking It To Shulz. Let’s get this bloody show on the road.
If nothing else, it needs to be made clear to the likes of Mastermind Lammy that Parliament has no sovereignty on the issue. It’s out of their hands.
If nothing else, make Farage a baroness, that seems to be the normal route to get unelected people into government these days anyway.
Excellent typo.