The full and complete case for a second referendum in its totality

You’re too kind, Tim.

The case for a second referendum.

It is kind of strange that all of the points made to Leave are now being back-tracked as undoable.

So no restraints on immigration. No extra funding for the NHS. No revoking EU directives. No tough re-negotiations. No repatriation of ECHR rulings.

Exactly what were we voting for? Ah yeah, in the main encouraged by that Faragian “I’m on a train and I don’t understand a word the other passengers are saying”.

Freedom!

Re-negotiate means another vote.

We are not the Irish or the Dutch.

I always thought Blojo was a quisling. I thought he would make his move last minute pre-vote–switch sides,

But what concessions could he get–No free movt of German RoP? No Turks? No kettle bullshit?

However shitcreaked and desperate the EU is they can’t give those kind of concessions with all the lot approve. And what kind of concessions would the rest want in return for that?

Blojo is certainly scummy enough to go to the EU with an offer to boost himself in exchange for herding us back in on a plate. IF that was the best deal for HIM.

But look at it.

Blojo is in spitting distance of being PM. A double cross now will taint that forever. The next ballot box is his end– as probably the most hated PM of all time.

What can the Euro-trash offer? The PM of a satrap whose face they will laugh in once he has had his moment of treacherous glory? A retirement job as EU commissioner of Bullshit?

Or a chance to be the bloke who got Britain out of the EU. There is his footnote in history right there.

He may have the skills to be a good PM (in the sense of good for the UK not himself) –HE doubtless thinks he does–but those will never shine as a Muppet in the EU’s puppet show.

These are concerning developments. But the cunts at the top must know that they will piss off the majority of people if they go for treachery. And such treachery will recruit lots of people from remain who can see clearly the evil and danger of a holding a bonfire of democracy.

The Inimitable Steve,

Quite. People can say what they like. That was the question on the ballot paper. When I voted, that’s what I expected.

The fact is, Cam and Osborne just never expected this outcome. They thought they could wheel out lots of nice, upper-class people to tell the proles that leaving would be bad and they’d obey. I mean, who holds such a thing, sees polls in the 40%+ range and then makes no plans? I used to have a bit of respect for Cameron, but his petulance on the day and telling us all that “Brits don’t quit” before doing precisely that have really lowered my opinion of him.

“Naivety or what?”

It’s you guys crowing that are naive, We’ve voted an instruction, just, to leave the EU as per the question on the ballot paper.

When exactly are you going to hang out the bunting? 2017, 2018, 2019, after the next General Election?

Even Johnson is saying that all the arguments for Leave were not a manifesto, but statements to ‘win’ a referendum.

OK, we have to be ‘all in this in together’, (funny that, as individualists), but let’s not start sanctifying Farig and Johnson, both heavily ‘establishment’ figures.

Larrarnold: Could you sum up yet another four rambling statements above by saying–in short compass preferably–just what the fuck you are on about?

You spew enough word-salad to get a contract from The Harvester chain.

WP, Steve

Jesus and duh.

I’m not disputing the vote, I’m questioning what leaving the EU actually entails. Naturally, I had no real idea how entrenched our position was, but it’s become clear that ‘Leave The EU’ is much more than the bloke down the pub wanting to leave the EU.

Has it happened yet? Has the 52-48 enabled us to “Leave The EU”?

At what stage will we know “Leave The EU” has occurred?

Pah, talk about schoolboy blather. Try and be realistic, yeah?

“I’m not disputing the vote,”

That’s mighty white of you.

” I’m questioning what leaving the EU actually entails. ”

Generally that would be leaving the EU.

“Naturally, I had no real idea ”

This we can see for ourselves.

“how entrenched our position was, but it’s become clear that ‘Leave The EU’ is much more than the bloke down the pub wanting to leave the EU.”

No its 17+ million blokes down the pub wanting to get the fuck away from one level of corrupt tyranny. Even if it means seeing what scum our own boss class is.

“Has it happened yet? Has the 52-48 enabled us to “Leave The EU”?”

In three and one half days Larri ?

“At what stage will we know “Leave The EU” has occurred?”

It is generally best to look for historical events in the past Las. A rule of thumb but still…

“Pah, talk about schoolboy blather.”

You both talk AND talk about schoolboy blather. Which qualifies you as an expert and the man to come to for gibberish+.

“Try and be realistic, yeah?”

Were more ironic words ever penned to acknowledge an absolute lack of self awareness?

Keep up the good work Arnold.

It is unfinished business. Our side would have continued campaigning.

Your side wants democracy fucked off to Hell.

Age qualifications and best of all an intelligence test. From the fuckwit scum of socialism.

Whats next–death threats on headed notepaper?

Ecks, you stupid twat.

How does your garden grow?

Qualifications based on skills/age/passing “The Life in the United Kingdom Test” already exist.

There’s no ‘side’ here. Farage belched that if there was a 52-48 Remain, he would ask for more.

Why don’t you take that test? It’s easy. It might make you feel better about yourself, rat-pensioner, report back.

If you don’t, I’m happy to assume you’ve failed.

Fuck off to where your ancestors came from.

Cal

“doesn’t mean screaming and shouting for another referendum, or just ignoring the result.”

Haven’t you anti EU folk been spitting out the dummy for the last few decades?

Outside of dictatorships such as N Korea, can anyone give an example of a referendum achieving > 60% on a > 75% turnout? The last EC Referendum in 1975 had a turnout < 65%.

“When the negotiations which will be triggered by our invocation of Article 50 have been concluded. Duh, it’s not that difficult.”

AIUI its when we repeal the 1972 EEC Act.

So you put up bizarrely obscure references and expect people to know what they are?

That the insolent sods were calling for an intelligence test is widely known. That they had one picked out is less widely known–as if anyone sane or decent cared anyway?

Oppression is a bullshit socialist concept I wouldn’t piss on let alone use.

The fact is that you ramble obscurely for most of the time you are online.

Lawrence – Is that what this referendum will deliver?

Yarp.

When will we know that we’ve left the EU?

When our elected representatives invoke Artm 50 and agree an exit date after which the UK will no longer be an EU Member State.

The weight of opinion seems to me to be becoming more and more that we leave the EU, join EEA and arrange our relationship with the EU like Norway, so have freedom of movement for workers etc and continue to contribute to the EU budget.

this is the problem with government by referendum. I agree you can’t just re-run because losers unhappy. However in general when making big decisions if you go for something then over time discover you won’t get what you thought you were getting it is useful to have a way back, and referendum don’t offer a way back because *the people have spoken*. Whether a sufficient proportion of leave voters would like to change their minds a little further down the road we can only know via a second referendum, but I cannot see any justification for holding second referendum, so now it’s like it or lump it. I realise I am only person on this blog who thinks this was a *really bad* decision, that’s not point I am making here, point is just about drawbacks of referendum as mechanism for major decision making. AFAIR California has this problem.

There’s a few lies knocking about regarding the NOR contribution to be in the Single Market ( 1.8bn Euro in a 5 year period ). The lie being by people who can’t divide by 5, so arrive at a number which is NOR contributes more than the UK currently does net for full membership of the EU.
If it was scaled for GDP the UK would pay about £2.5bn-£3bn for EEA on Norway’s terms, a saving of about £6bn a year or one day’s GDP.
And British workers in the EEA are protected just as much as the people of GIB, and EU nationals working here.
I’d settle for that.
Plus we get the opportunity to reduce farm subsidies and convergence funding for Cornwall to the correct level.

Arnold–WTF are you talking about?

The intelligence test was proposed by young snot CM vermin for voters. Most of whom have already been voting for decades.

The high regard of socialist scum for the ballot box–so long as they get the result they want.

Enough–it isn’t happening anyway.

As for migrants –a few thousand can be let in if they have needed skills and good character.

And with those criteria you’ll be dying in some boarding house there on Gurn-Sea.

LE, last time I checked, no nation in Europe runs its government “by referendum”. (and no, the Swiss are by no means “european”.)
In fact, most politicians and Powers-that-Be *hate* the things and wouldn’t allow them if they could get away with it.

You see, regardless of the specifics of the rules for a referendum, one happening means that the current establishment has gone and fucked up completely.
It’s a polite form of peasant revolt, where every politician on whichever side of the issue has egg on his/her face.
Because they haven’t done their job: representing the people that elected them in power.

Getting to the point where a referendum actually happens means you’ve *already* pissed off enough people to such an extent, that they are willing to get off their arses and vote on [Issue] , as opposed to their usual dormant state.
This also means that a referendum is quite likely to fall *against* whatever the governments’ stance is, whether or not it makes actual sense.
Because. The Government. Fucked. Up. In. Its. Primary. Purpose. And the vote will reflect that sentiment.

There’s a reason the result of a referendum is seen as binding, even if it is in and of itself just “Advisory”: Ignoring the result will be a political statement that whatever Joe Public thinks, the Regents will do as they please anyway.
At which time the pitchforks and torches will soon loom over the horizon, and *real* revolt will soon follow.

This is also the reason why the requirements for a referendum are *steep*. And take formal acknowledgement.
“I don’t agree with the results of the last referendum” is, I’m afraid, not a reason to hold one.
I don’t know about the UK, but here in the Netherlands it’s actually written into the law that this is one of the reasons why our government may deny a request for one: if you make the grade, you got *ONE* chance.

You lost. Tough luck.

(Ecksy’s remark about us Cloggies being able to re-vote is not true. But we do have provisions in the law requiring minimum turnout, and minimum difference. If the first referendum fails that one, we do get a second round. If that fails, the referendum is considered invalid altogether. But there’s no re-hashing of the same issue, ever.)

Paul – The idea of ‘winners regret’ is nonsense I think, based around the idiot child touted round the media. The only survey I’ve seen said 1% of leavers would vote the other way (and about 4% of remainers).

Yarp. It couldn’t be more bollocks if it was squeezed into a pair of Y-fronts. If anything, losers’ regret is a bigger factor.

The Remain campaign’s last minute effort to make the referendum a plebiscite on whether you agree with murderous, knife-wielding lunatics guilted a good few people into voting for the status quo.

If we held another referendum next week Leave would win by a bigger margin.

TIS: “The Remain campaign’s last minute effort to make the referendum a plebiscite on whether you agree with murderous, knife-wielding lunatics guilted a good few people into voting for the status quo.

If we held another referendum next week Leave would win by a bigger margin.”

Just so Steve.

Also time is not on remain side. The more time passes the more economic trouble the EU is in.

Aside from a million+ middle class CM members of the Enemy Class most remainers are concerned about their money. Once they realise the EU is sinking they will no longer be remainers because their money will be in more danger inside the EU than out.

Also this:

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/683739/EU-referendum-German-French-European-superstate-Brexit

Tabloids are not so reliable but it doesn’t surprise.

They just don’t learn do they.

Minimum turn-outs for referenda are silly.

The status quo side can merely boycott, thereby ensuring that the minimum is not reached.

Lawrence, I see your point re a GE. It would probably have to be a new one tho. Lab or Con wouldn’t dare. The problem is also if Lab do you aren’t just voting for the eu but everything else. LD performance may be a pointer, will the strong remain areas move LD

@Chris Millar, the South African referendum of ’92 had a result of 68% on a turnout of 85%