What I learned from trying — and failing — to stop BrexitJune 30, 2016 Tim WorstallEuropean Union48 CommentsPeople disagree with me? previousPlease, find something else to worry aboutnextTimmy in the Washington Post 48 thoughts on “What I learned from trying — and failing — to stop Brexit” BraveFart June 30, 2016 at 2:23 pm I think this is one of the many blogs our host posts that falls into the category of “I read this webshite so you don’t have to”, which is a proper public service. BraveFart June 30, 2016 at 2:34 pm And I think anyone crapping themselves about Brexit just needs to look at this to believe that, whatever happens, we in these isles are probably going to be ok http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3667618/Cracking-breakfast-Gromit-Inventive-pensioners-dream-machine-delivers-perfect-eggs-toast-delivers-morning-paper-cleans-itself.html Mr Ecks June 30, 2016 at 2:35 pm How many more of these “London Bubble” cunt-links are we going to have to put up with on here Tim? All of them peddle the same shite ie Well off prick says– “I’m All Right Jack – you ignorant waycist twats haven’t been educated enough by your smarter betters like me” Unstated is –of course–“And now my nice cosy lifestyle is under threat–what about the ethnic restaurants I love, what about cheap au pairs/nannys , what about Poppy & Sebastian” and Nandoo’s (sic) restaurant” To which the answer is –“Fuck you Bubbler.” . Hopefully–when the real worldwide economic meltdown comes the inhabitants of the “London Nasty Bubble” will come boiling out to play and show these cunts how very un-nice life can get. Serve ’em right. PS-Poppy & Sebastian: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LS8QFVixYo The sight of the daft cow blubbering cos she thinks Brexit will close Nandoo’s restaurant–whatever and wherever the Hell that is– is on this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bn_6sU7O43w The Meissen Bison June 30, 2016 at 2:37 pm Every weekend was dedicated to leafleting sessions, talking to people outside shops and metro stations two hours at a time. What he apparently failed to learn was that the 52% who voted Leave probably object to the London Underground being called the metro. In Barnet, for goodness’ sake! Ian B June 30, 2016 at 2:44 pm The interesting thing (well not that interesting, but it’s a thing) coming out of all the morning after analysis is their lack of acknowledgement of the human will. They see human action (of the voters) as simply a reflection of campaigns. If you lose the vote, your campaign wasn’t good enough. Not that people who had considered an issue perhaps for many years had formed a particular opinion and voted that way at the referendum. They never wonder whether their own actions are also formed in that manner, though. I wonder why. Liberal Yank June 30, 2016 at 2:44 pm They responded that they “didn’t like giving money to the EU — what is it, 300 and something million? — when it could be spent on things like the NHS.” I’d point out that I worked in health and this wasn’t the issue, and that, in line with the “stronger in” message, “the UK received £10 back for every £1 it put in.” Ah…there is a magic money tree. Leave it to someone with a masters in international relations to discover what economists never have. I await the functional fusion reactor from a woman’s studies major. So Much For Subtlety June 30, 2016 at 2:48 pm Some people seem to think they are born to rule and the rest of us should just agree. It does usually work that way I admit. Surreptitious Evil June 30, 2016 at 2:50 pm People did not understand the EU That’s them, lefty Remainders, simply not getting the point. People did understand the EU. “Ever closer union”. The Council, the Commission, the Parliament, the CJEU, the endless moves, the hypocritical bureaucracy (audit, smoking), the fraud, the endless parade of has-beens or never-wases that are President of this, that or the other. The disaster zone that is the Euro. The patronising attitude of the enarchs and whatever you call the German equivalent(s). The trivial (and bypassable) reforms that were all Cameron could offer us. The gross contribution (let’s honest, even HM Treasury reports have cocked up the net contribution) and the egregious demands for ever more money. Merkel’s invitation (on behalf of the entire sodding EU – we know who Germany thinks runs it) to the hordes of Araby. Etc, etc, etc. Some thought all that was worth it Therefore, telling people more about the EU wasn’t going to change anybody’s mind (assuming they actually bothered devoting any of their mind to the issue.) Eddy June 30, 2016 at 2:51 pm I didn’t see any mention of sovereignty in that article, the biggest issue for most voters. Theophrastus June 30, 2016 at 3:02 pm He spends his “early adulthood” living “transnationally” (whatever that is) and then is surprised to find he doesn’t understand 17.4m residents of his country of origin. An extraordinary lack of self-awareness there. Charlie Suet June 30, 2016 at 3:02 pm There are huge, huge numbers of people for whom the EU can never do any wrong and who will laugh in your face if you try and argue otherwise. The sort of people who defend pointless, pettifogging legislation about things like bananas. They’ve normally never worked in a small business and don’t understand how much time dealing with needless red tape takes up. The sort of people who tell you that it doesn’t matter that Juncker et al are unelected, because they were appointed by people who were. As if shareholders of a company would be happy if the directors they appointed delegated people above them to make the key decisions. They brag about being guided by experts, but if you point out that economists as different as Friedman and Krugman both thought the Euro was a bad idea they will again shrug it off as if it was nothing. The EU has created huge youth unemployment and helps keep African economies in poverty. But it still gets a reputation among the young for being “progressive”. Ben S June 30, 2016 at 3:04 pm The killer for me is the Brussels-Strasbourg pilgrimages. They can’t even reform THAT, and it only concerns their internal workings. How can they possibly run a continent? Anon June 30, 2016 at 3:10 pm Ian B, Indeed. This is really about 20 years of trouble stored up, of ignoring what Maastricht meant, raising immigration, calling anti-immigrant groups racist for even pointing out the rise in numbers, of trying to lock up Nick Griffin, of asylum seekers getting better treatment than the unemployed, of Brown lying about Lisbon, Brown calling an anti-immigration woman a bigot, Brown lying about “British Jobs for British People”, Brown lying about immigration, Cameron lying about immigration. Cameron lying about negotiation. Cameron lying about renegotiation. BraveFart June 30, 2016 at 3:12 pm I agree with Mr Ecks and, I hate to admit it, Tony Blair. It’s all education, education education. And as long as the thoughts and views of our teachers (or at least those not in the madrassas) are generally products of agit prop for social welfare, the EU, unfettered immigration and multi culturalism, in the long run we’re gonna be fucked. Ian B June 30, 2016 at 3:14 pm I might have already said this yesterday or something, but I bet ten years from now finding anyone who’ll admit to voting Remain will be as hard as finding someone who’ll admit to voting for Blair is now. Mr Ecks June 30, 2016 at 3:20 pm Time is not on Remains side. If–as SMFS says on another thread– that not just Santander but also Deutsche Bank are looking dodgy, the EU is in BIG trouble–Brexit or no. Charlie Suet June 30, 2016 at 3:32 pm I think the Eurozone would have to collapse entirely – and at the right time – before the Remainers would admit that there were any virtues to leaving. The counter-factual to the economic difficulties we’ll face over the next decade will be the claim that we could have had easy prosperity under the EU. If the EU collapses close to Brexit, it’ll be our fault. If it happens shortly afterwards then we won’t be properly shielded from it. We’d have to be far enough away from it to be slightly insulated – that’ll take time. Demetrius June 30, 2016 at 3:35 pm He mentions LSE experts, gosh golly, as it happens I am LSE and voted Leave on the grounds that in economic and monetary terms the EU is a busted flush with nothing in the pot.. Ian B June 30, 2016 at 3:46 pm It occured to me recently that strangely we have Gordon Brown to thank for all this. He kept us out of the Euro. If we’d been in the Euro in 2008, it would have been credited with saving our economy and no chance of getting out of the EU would have occurred. Being outside it for the Crash was a big help. Simon June 30, 2016 at 3:47 pm Is this perhaps one of the candidates for understatement of the year ? : “well-substantiated concerns around the democratic deficit within the European Union” As Surreptitious Evil says, it’s about the way the EU is being led full steam ahead towards a single country and those doing so are just ignoring all those (not just the UK) saying they don’t want it. It’s a bit like being on a bus, when you got on it was just taking you to the shops, now it’s taking you to somewhere you would never want to go – and only the driver can’t see that massive crash coming up (like the scene from the Young Ones taking the wee-wee out of Summer Holiday where the bus goes over the cliff). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-LBI4wUA8k Lots of people are pleading for the driver to stop or change course – but you are all prisoners. Well we’ve decided to get off regardless – it might well hurt (the driver isn’t going to do us any favours like stopping – he wants it to hurt, a lot), but it’ll hurt a lot less than being on-board when the inevitable crash happens. . I got sent a link today about Greece. I can only conclude that there’s some sort of reality distortion field in effect given that the mainstream media over here seem to be suggesting it’s “just a little down” over there. If it’s half as bad as this article makes out, then we don’t want to be part of an organisation that will do that to people : http://apokoronasnews.gr/were-told-the-eu-makes-us-all-stronger-but-a-lot-of-people-in-greece-would-not-see-it-this-way/ And who do we see about criminal charges of crimes against humanity ? . And this video sums up just why I voted to leave – just a lot more elegantly than I could ! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJcuKfcxo9w Simon June 30, 2016 at 3:50 pm @ Ian B Yes, we have Gordon B Ruin to thank for that. God, how it sticks in the throat actually crediting him with something positive given what he did to pensions and the economy as a whole. But credit where it’s due … Mr Ecks June 30, 2016 at 4:07 pm It was down to the Bottlers ego. In the Euro he would have been just another Muppet in the line-up. He wanted to be Mr Prudent, Mr Big Cheese, Mr No-More-Boom-n’Bust. Still worked out–quite against his intent–for the best tho’ Umbongo June 30, 2016 at 4:36 pm The only reason Brown resisted the euro was because Blair wanted in. Had Blair wanted out we’d have been in the moment Brown became PM – if not before. Bloke in Costa Rica June 30, 2016 at 4:45 pm “What I learned from trying — and failing — to stop Brexit” If you fed a Vox writer into a wood chipper feet-first for being a cunt they wouldn’t learn anything even as the blades reached their hips. They’re the most epistemically-closed, intellectually incurious bunch of self-described ‘smart’ people on the Internet. Johnnydub June 30, 2016 at 4:59 pm “It was down to the Bottlers ego.” Not to mention the schadenfreude for fucking Tony Blair’s dream of becoming EU president…. DocBud June 30, 2016 at 5:00 pm I’m in South Africa on business (better enjoy some Nando’s in case they close UK stores). The hotel’s only news channel is CNN who are making absolutely no pretence at being evenhanded over Brexit. I’ve seen two bullying interviews of Daniel Hannan. In the first he was accused of retreating from his position on immigration which he strongly objected to. In the second he was told that earlier in the week he’d rolled back his position on immigration, as he was about to object, the interviewer said “that’s where we’ll have to leave it”. Apparently, when the FTSE plummets, that’s due to Brexit, when it bounces back it’s just daily speculation and what really counts is ‘macro-economics’. Just hearing now that Theresa May is the voice of reason. Agammamon June 30, 2016 at 5:10 pm I lived my early adulthood transnationally, Actually, you didn’t dude. That’s the *point* of the EU ‘experiment’. You lived life bopping around from one not-very-autonomous political zone to another within a single nation – the EU. And its nice to be able to travel (sort of) ID and permission free over large swathes of territory (its something we enjoy over here) but it comes at a pretty high cost (as we’re finding out and you guys should already know). That ‘supra-national’ government wants ever more control centralized to itself and less and less to the subordinate political divisions. Which means that, over here, there’s a central government trying to reconcile the distinct desires and needs of at least a dozen completely separate cultures – and failing badly. Now imagine how poorly the EU was managing that in a place where they speak damn near a completely different language every hundred miles. Van_Patten June 30, 2016 at 5:54 pm BICR I would put the writers of ‘The Canary’ or the basically KCNA like ‘Another Angry Voice’ as marginally worse but it is extremely marginal….. Jack C June 30, 2016 at 6:58 pm I’d point out that I worked in health and this wasn’t the issue, and that, in line with the “stronger in” message, “the UK received £10 back for every £1 it put in. I don’t know how it’s possible to be this stupid, and hold a degree. I guess it’s not possible. So how can this sort of statement be explained? Jack C June 30, 2016 at 6:59 pm Hang on, the “and hold a degree” is redundant there. Ian B June 30, 2016 at 7:29 pm I’m far too lazy to look at the figures and do sums, but I’m guessing this particular example of stupid comes from dividing the UK exports total by the EU subscription fees. Like if you had a pitch at a car boot sale and paid the organisers a fiver, and sold goods to the sum of £100, you’re “getting £20 back for every £1 put in”. Ian B June 30, 2016 at 7:31 pm Also, a lot of the safety pin anger is from people who have done bluffers degrees whose sole purpose is to get a job with the tranziocracy, watching their career path fall apart. Jack C June 30, 2016 at 7:46 pm That might be it. Still stupid though. On a separate note, the Remnants are also asking us to believe that grandparents loathe their grandchildren, and (to a lesser extent), parents their offspring. The better educated side so they say, which is pretty scary. Pcar. June 30, 2016 at 7:52 pm @Mr Ecks, June 30, 2016 at 2:35 pm “PS-Poppy & Sebastian: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LS8QFVixYo “ I find it exceedingly difficult to believe what anyone covered in tattoos utters (maybe except military}. @Simon, June 30, 2016 at 3:47 pm “I got sent a link today about Greece. I can only conclude that there’s some sort of reality distortion field in effect given that the mainstream media over here seem to be suggesting it’s “just a little down” over there. If it’s half as bad as this article makes out, then we don’t want to be part of an organisation that will do that to people : http://apokoronasnews.gr/were-told-the-eu-makes-us-all-stronger-but-a-lot-of-people-in-greece-would-not-see-it-this-way/ “ Satcure monthly blog? Ian B June 30, 2016 at 8:11 pm Talking of reality distortion, we now have the Governor of the Bank Of England doing his level best to deliberately talk the markets down. This all gets weirder every day. Eur In Trouble Now June 30, 2016 at 8:16 pm That’s a bizarre interpretation. Carney was doing his best to support market confidence. He also made the very accurate observations that the BoE’s powers are limited and there’s only so much they can do when overall economic activity is depressed by uncertainty. Paul Carlton June 30, 2016 at 10:05 pm It amuses me that the guy said: “As someone whose works on health policy, using the financial challenges of the NHS struck me as an irresponsible, reductive tactic. I realized if one side was falsely claiming that membership to the EU led to underfunding of the beloved NHS, there was little hope for a vote of remaining in Europe.” I looked him up on linkedin. He works in a division of Ogilvy and Mather, the advertising agency, for Ogilvy Healthworld UK. They specialise in communications and public relations for large health and pharmaceutical companies. He’s a senior account manager. Obviously a medical expert. David Moore June 30, 2016 at 10:13 pm Ian B ” If you lose the vote, your campaign wasn’t good enough.” I’ve noticed that too, the remainers complaining they lost because ‘Put the Great back into Great Britain” is a better tagline. They talk at length about listening and communicating and then completely miss what is right in front of them. Jack C July 1, 2016 at 12:58 am I was affected by the campaigns, perhaps for the first time ever. The Remain campaign was utterly appalling, easily the worst effort I’ve ever experienced. I doubt I was alone. Not totally surprising, to EU supporters, the benefits of membership have just become an assumption. There is a case to be made, but it wasn’t made. Who performed well on the Remain side? Anybody? The only significant interventions that I can remember were foot-in-mouth moments of often breath-taking stupidity and arrogance. Corbyn, Shultz, Juncker, Cameron and Calais, Osborne and his last and greatest Budget Fuck-Up. Ian Reid July 1, 2016 at 1:29 pm Be careful about predictions of imminent EU collapse. Its obituary has been written many times before, and it’s still there. Obviously its citizens might get poorer, but the institution itself rolls on as though nothing had happened. Jim July 1, 2016 at 4:38 pm “He also made the very accurate observations that the BoE’s powers are limited and there’s only so much they can do when overall economic activity is depressed by uncertainty.” So presumably the Governor of the BoE was making similar pronouncements at the height of the Financial Crash? After all the uncertainty as to whether any banks were likely to be still open the next day was undoubtedly depressing economic activity quite significantly at that point, so I assume you can point me to a similar speech by Mervyn King? Eur In Trouble Now July 2, 2016 at 12:19 am Is that meant to be a serious comment? The two situations are mirror images. During the Crash the worry was about illiquidity in the banks affecting their ability to support the real economy. Right now the concern is about the Brexit slowdown in the real economy affecting the banks. Hence why the BoE have given the banks a £150bn liquidity backstop and Carney’s talking about what additional damage control measures they can take. Tim Worstall July 2, 2016 at 3:21 am Hence why the BoE and liquidity support, indeed. None of which is QE, is it? QE being that different thing? Eur In Trouble Now July 2, 2016 at 4:39 am Absolutely, this has very little to do with QE. But I don’t think QE was ever mentioned in this context was it? The suggestion was that the BoE were trying to drag the economy down when it’s patently obvious they’re trying to do the exact opposite and hold it up as best they can. Jim July 2, 2016 at 9:19 am “The two situations are mirror images. During the Crash the worry was about illiquidity in the banks affecting their ability to support the real economy. Right now the concern is about the Brexit slowdown in the real economy affecting the banks.” So why is the Governor of the BoE going out in public making statements that there’s not much he can do in the circumstances? What good does that do, other than create fear and more uncertainty? Surely the job of a Central Bank Governor is to reassure people , not scare the pants off them? Which is why I (and others) are wondering exactly to what end he made that statement. It certainly doesn’t seem to be to the benefit of the economy as a whole, so it must be for other more private reasons. It seems to me that Mark Carney didn’t personally want Brexit (that was obvious from his interventions in the campaign) and now he’s operating like many of the losing side, in a sort of ‘I told you so’ attitude. If you predicted the economy would crater in the event of Brexit, you’re not going to work too hard to prove yourself an idiot are you? Eur In Trouble Now July 2, 2016 at 2:41 pm The job of a central bank governor is to forestall banking crises, maintain the value of the currency, keep inflation in check and foster economic growth as much as feasibly possible. It’s not to pretend that he has a magic bullet that can save the economy through monetary policy alone, or to tell the populace that major choices don’t have significant consequences. And if he were to attempt the latter he would sap his own credibility, which would undermine his ability to do the former. The likes of Leadsom and Rees-Mogg that are attacking him for pointing out the obvious (and I’m not necessarily saying you’re in that camp) are simply showing they don’t understand what a central bank governor does, don’t understand the role of central bank independence, and are unfit for high office. Jim July 2, 2016 at 5:32 pm “The likes of Leadsom and Rees-Mogg that are attacking him for pointing out the obvious (and I’m not necessarily saying you’re in that camp) are simply showing they don’t understand what a central bank governor does, don’t understand the role of central bank independence, and are unfit for high office.” No they can see someone who has let his personal opinions cloud his judgement as to what is best for the UK economy (and the UK public). Its not Mark Carney’s role to make judgements on the political choices of the UK public, its to note them and do the best he can to manage the economy in the circumstances he finds himself in. Eur In Trouble Now July 2, 2016 at 6:16 pm To note them *and* comment on them as they pertain to his job. You can’t blame the guy in charge of the money supply for explaining why the value of the money is going down. If you want apparatchiks who say there is absolutely no downside to anything the country is doing, the USSR went out of business a while ago. I don’t know anything about Carney’s personal opinions, and nor do you. You’re assuming comments made in his professional capacity reflect his private opinions. Which is a very lefty trait, comrade. Leave a Reply Cancel replyYour email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *Comment Name * Email * Website Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment.