Yes Will, great, but why do we have to have the fuckers in Brussels?

Europe is an idea. It’s better than that – it’s a noble idea. The many countries of a small continent club together, sharing common values and common interests, to solve problems, break down barriers and live better than they would and could otherwise.

Lovely jubbly, and why not?

But why does it have to be run as an anti-democratic precursor to a superstate directed by the bureaucracy? Why, in short, do we have to have some fat German socialist as a President of it?

23 thoughts on “Yes Will, great, but why do we have to have the fuckers in Brussels?”

  1. Macron said yesterday that the EU would change the rules to prevent other countries such as Demark and Poland leaving, is this why the EU is keen to have its own army ?

    Maybe we should rename the EU the Hotel California ?

    Putin took a similar point of regarding Chechnya seeking independence

    Who knows maybe the EU will hand the Baltic states back to their owner?

  2. Bloke in North Dorset

    “Macron said yesterday that the EU would change the rules to prevent other countries such as Demark and Poland leaving”

    And once again socialists fly their true colours: Don’t like what we’re doing? We’ll force you anyway.

  3. Europe is an idea. It’s better than that – it’s a noble idea. The many countries of a small continent club together, sharing common values and common interests, to solve problems, break down barriers and live better than they would and could otherwise.

    And here lies the problem. That statement reveals that they rely on emotion and a deluded optimism. You cannot reason someone out of that position. Despite the evidence, they continue to believe.

    I would hazard to guess that they are also firm believers in the UN and the benevolence of the State in every sphere.

  4. Long ago the Inquisition was thought to be a noble idea in Europe. How times don’t change. I did a post on Europe, in April 1951 I was in Paris.

  5. It strikes me that post Brexit, the Scots will realise that the idea of independence and joining the EU won’t look as rosy. The Scots only export 7% of their GDP to the EU (excl UK), about half the UK figure. Even with regional development grants, that makes an EU membership fee of 1% of GDP (&no rebate) look very expensive. In fact with most of their imports coming from England, import duties on English goods (which are handed over to the EU) are likely to exceed 1% of GDP even with a paltry level of tariff.

  6. So Much For Subtlety

    The British Empire was an idea. It was better than that – it was a noble idea. Many countries of the world clubbed together, sharing common values and common interests, to solve problems, break down barriers and live better than they would and could otherwise.

    I am sure Will would agree.

  7. @SMFS, The difference is “voluntary”. The benefits the British empire brought to other places were, often (not always), simply unforeseen consequences. Why I can’t join the current Rhodes-demonising movement – he was a selfish, racist arsehole who did a lot of good by mistake.

    Incidentally, South Africa never got a vote on leaving the British Empire. In fact when they tried, Britain did send the army in. Twice. Britain is getting such a vote, with no EU army breathing down its neck.

  8. The Pedant-General

    BiG

    “Britain is getting such a vote, with no EU army breathing down its neck”

    So best to get out before it does get such an army….

  9. So everybody from Timmy on one side to the most ardent Europhile agree with both statements – that union between European nations could be really good, and:

    “But why does it have to be run as an anti-democratic precursor to a superstate directed by the bureaucracy? ”

    It doesn’t. QED, I’m entirely correct when I say the referendum is nothing less than a masterstroke of politics by the EU to distract us from talking about the reform that would otherwise threaten the sinecure-holders.

  10. Bloke in Germany

    “The difference is voluntary.”

    I must disagree with you my friend. Vote against the new constitution in your national referendum did you France? Well you’ll find this treaty, containing all of the same provisions, doesn’t offer you the right to hold a referendum. Want to leave do you Poland? Er no, you can check out any time you like but you can never leave.

    Hotel California; Julian howe wins the internet.

  11. “There are more good jobs in our factories than there otherwise would be”

    Of great, just great. So just as long as we don’t look at the Irish public sector workers’ pay cuts, or those of the Portuguese, or the youth unemployment in France, Spain, Italy or the soup kitchens following g the destroyed pensions and completely hollowed out economy in Greece, provided we ignore all that, we get to call the EU the great champion of workers’ rights. Because the British have jobs and the EU can somehow claim all the credit so fuck the foreigners.

    Next you-ll be back to telling us that we in Leave are the racists

  12. So Much For Subtlety

    Dave – “It doesn’t. QED, I’m entirely correct when I say the referendum is nothing less than a masterstroke of politics by the EU to distract us from talking about the reform that would otherwise threaten the sinecure-holders.”

    Dave, you are so epically dishonest, so cosmically heroically full of sh!t, it really is quite impressive. It doesn’t. But we are not being offered a Reform option. Cameron is, no doubt, kicking himself for offering any sort of option at all. No one will ever be so stupid to do it again. If we stay, there is no Reform path. There is no way to influence the undemocratic and corrupt European structures. There is therefore no point even talking about reform.

    The only option is exit.

    As I would guess you know. I would assume that no one is this dishonest by mistake. So I will further assume you are being paid to be this stupid.

  13. Well, the LHTD has now said that those voting Brexit are rejecting neoliberalism.

    What he hasn’t done is thought through what that means.

  14. Regarding Macron, having proposed to change the rules so others can’t vote out (how- a new treaty, or just imperial diktat) goes on to describe the death of Jo Cox as a crime against democratic debate. Am I the only one to notice a slight inconsistency there?

  15. So Much For Subtlety

    Bloke in Germany – “The difference is “voluntary”.”

    Is it? As loathe as I am to agree with Rusty, the European authorities have repeatedly put their ideas to the vote and they have been repeatedly rejected. That has not stopped them one little bit. The process of unification and centralisation has continued relentlessly.

    “The benefits the British empire brought to other places were, often (not always), simply unforeseen consequences.”

    Were they? I am not so sure about that.

    “Why I can’t join the current Rhodes-demonising movement – he was a selfish, racist arsehole who did a lot of good by mistake.”

    Because he was a selfish racist ar$ehole of course.

    Ironman – “Next you-ll be back to telling us that we in Leave are the racists”

    Wasn’t that your line yesterday?

  16. The people of Europe have been trading and more or less getting along since the stone age–except when political scum stir up trouble.

    The EU is trouble and nothing else.

  17. SMFS

    Deep sigh. No, there are racists, who are racists (Brian First). And there is the Leave campaign, which is about sovereignty and patriotsim and isn’t racist.

    Do I have to draw one of Ritchie’s Venn diagrams?

  18. If the EU is the solution what the is the problem? Everything beneficial (imo) about the EU can be solved with a free trade area. But if we can’t have an FTA without political union and unaccountable governance as well then leaving is better than not leaving.

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