Coup in Turkey, eh?

Lord knows Erdogan needs to go but this isn’t the way to do it.

For a start, from reports, the Generals aren’t supporting it anyway. Bit of a blow that…

33 thoughts on “Coup in Turkey, eh?”

  1. Half one UK time. Looks like a fail.

    Once a country’s military is unwilling to fire on its own people, it can’t do coups very well.

  2. I think the correct argument is that it’s not “the military” but some small part of it.

  3. I am not one for conspiracy theories as a rule, but the nature of the coup attempt demonstrates there must have been a conspiracy of some kind; you don’t get fast air, aviation and armour working in concert without some degree of coordination. The question is therefore who is behind the conspiracy and whether they were genuinely trying to overthrow the regime or.were setting the whole thing up to fail with view to justifying sweeping new security powers for the regime. The former seems simpler and so more likely, but I wouldn’t like to put too much money on either.

  4. eh – the Turkish military has, by virtue of multiple coups, kept a decent lid on radical Islamism and anyone in the ‘democratically elected’ government deciding that ‘l’état, c’est moi’ as Erdogan has been.

    Its just a variant of the ‘if not the ballot box then the bullet box’. Instead of a massive civil war splitting the country asunder (as happened between the US and UK and inside the US later as one example) they have periodic coups to smack down the government from time to time.

    Probably wouldn’t work for me or thee, but it seems to work for them.

    The scary difference this time is that Erdogan has done his best to change out the generals specifically to pull their teeth before this happens to him.

    We’ll see how it works out this time around with the military not being as unified in their response as they’ve managed in the past.

  5. Seems a colonel level effort. Unless there are spinoff events it should all be over by the end of the day. Off to bed.

  6. The constitution lay down by Mustafa Kemal Ataturk places the ultimate defense of the country in the hands of the military. It’s actually written in the constitution that the military have a duty to overthrow any government that strays from the principal of the constitution.

    Erdogan have been restacking the military with his cronies, rewrite the constitution to his way of thinking.

  7. As has been mentioned elsewhere, this appears to be have been an amateurish efforts: the coup leaders didn’t make taking over the TV and radio stations a priority. I agree with Agammamom that historically the intervention of the Turkish military has been generally positive whenever the elected government started taking things in the wrong direction, and without this safety valve Turkey is likely to be a version of Syria within a generation or two. The Thai military also performs a useful role in booting out corrupt and divisive politicians every now and then.

  8. I blame that limerick by Boris. “Sowing dissension in the ranks” is the expression. Although Boris wrote of sowing something else …

  9. There are people who want this country in the EU. Still, it was the ignorant nutters who voted Brexit, wasn’t it?

  10. Rob, it’s nice of Chris Bryant to give us more overwhelming evidence that’s he’s a room-temp IQ moron, but did we really need it?

  11. It’s theatre to provide cover for annihilation of secular society and a Kurdish “final solution” with Merkel and Obama making supportive noises.

  12. It does rather look like a faux attempt that will justify the inevitable ‘crack down’, perhaps just to dislodge any senior military that he hadn’t dealt with to date.

  13. A false flag coup would have some advantages for Erdogan in terms of flushing out disaffected members of the military of the “Colonels” rank who often start these things, it would then also allow for a further purging of the military, a temporary dictatorship of Erdogan to allow changes to the constitution to remove the constitutional requirement of the army to remove the government if required, etc., etc.,

    The reason why I don’t think it was is that Erdogan came across as weak and out of place, him being shown on TV over Facetime from some journalists mobile phone was just pathetic.

    He might have regained control, but I think he will struggle to restore his supremacy.

  14. “He might have regained control, but I think he will struggle to restore his supremacy.”
    Nothing that curfew(people starved to death in Cizre last January due to curfew),shutting down the internet(partially achieved), msm control(achieved), invoking Anti-Terrorism legislation(one of the stumbling blocks in visafree travel w the EU, he will now present as justifiable), detention/torture/disappearing of anyone who smiled when that uni prof,currently being prosecuted for insulting him, compared him to Gollum; nothing will stop him, certainly not Merkel or Obama from achieving supremacy!

    I wonder when he will announce the return of the Caliphate to Constantinople?

  15. I have seen reports he’s just sacked 2700-odd judges, along with 5 members of the board that appoints judges. Who weree obviously part of the coup, waving their gavels…

    I’d wonder how he happened to have such a long list of beaks for the chop ready and waiting, were it not for the fact he’s been having a go at reshaping the judiciary in his own image for at couple of months. It could be that he been planning on easing them all out in slow time and a ham-fisted attempt to oust him has just given him a golden opportunity.

  16. “It’s theatre to provide cover for annihilation of secular society and a Kurdish “final solution” with Merkel and Obama making supportive noises.”

    They can add it to the Armenian one and have two genocides to angrily deny ever happened.

  17. This wasn’t a false flag operation, nor was it likely to be a Gulen plot (despite what the BBC and other outlets claim, ‘parallel structures’ has been used both to refer to Gulen’s Hizmet movement, and the traditional ‘Deep State’ of secularist nationalism).

    But it was a failure. A whole bunch of upper-middle officers had been detained some years ago on a largely fabricated coup plot called ‘sledgehammer’. Many of them had been released a few months ago following various appeals (if he is sacking judges, he’s probably starting with the independent ones who did that).

    Wouldn’t be surprised if many of those involved had been reacting to that persecution. On top of all the other political grievances against Erdogan (Islamist, authoritarianism…) Remember that he has been in power for over a decade without the army lifting a finger; these tensions didn’t used to be this bad.

    Erdogan is going to be a real problem soon, regardless of the wrongs of a coup. He already has a touch of megalomania and paranoia, and this is going to make it worse.

  18. I’d wonder how he happened to have such a long list of beaks for the chop ready and waiting, were it not for the fact he’s been having a go at reshaping the judiciary in his own image for at couple of months.

    He’s probably had such a list ready for years.

  19. Bloke in Costa Rica

    Just as in Venezuela, the failure to liquidate the people in charge had led to the coup to fail. If they had air power, why didn’t they find the hotel where Erdogan was hiding out and flatten it with a couple of Paveways? And an Islamist lies down in front of your tank? That’s what pressure washers are for. Cleans the bits out of the sprockets a treat. Fucking amateurish effort. Looks like their hearts weren’t in it.

  20. @: Richard
    “Aren’t coups traditionally led by colonels?”
    Not in Turkey where, as BigFire points out, the military have a duty to protect the constitution from elected politicians.
    It is disgraceful that the BBC is putting about a series of ridiculous conspiracy theories to suggest that this was not a left-wing coup – I have lost count of the num,ber of military coups in Turkey in my lifetime and every single one was a coup by left-wing military against a centre-right elected government.

  21. John77: the traditional military was hollowed out by trumped up charges of conspiracy against the top echelons which have clogged courts and prisons, so think USSR army 1939. It is also largely a conscript army in the junior ranks, Kurds serve in the Turkish west of Anatolia, Turks in the Kurdish south-east. This was theatre.

  22. John77: the traditional military was hollowed out by trumped up charges of conspiracy against the top echelons which have clogged courts and prisons, so think USSR army 1939.

    Indeed, I made a similar remark over on Samizdata: it’s hard to imagine these purges, and the one of 3,000 soldiers that is currently taking place, won’t leave the Turkish army in a useless state. And if they’re useless, why would we bother keeping them in NATO?

  23. Fucking amateurish effort. Looks like their hearts weren’t in it.

    Reports are out that the rebel F16s had Erdo’s jet in their sights but didn’t fire. As you say, amateur effort.

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