Party members choosing leaders is pure folly

Dunno really. I tend to think that chess club members get to choose the officers and leaders of the chess club. Tory party members get to choose the leader of the Tory party.

89 thoughts on “Hmm”

  1. I wonder how many people will rush to join the Conservative party to try and influence the result

  2. No point in joining now. Unlike Labour, rules designed with a little sense to prevent nonsense. Must be member for 3 months before ballot closes to vote.

  3. No time–you have to be in 3 months to vote.

    And as for influencing the result –as with Brexit–every lying sack of shit on the planet will be trying to do just that.

    Just as this Phil Collins prick is trying to do with his shite now. Systems that were fine when they served the scum of CM are now suddenly just no good.

    The leftscum want the Darling Dud of May so she can screw Brexit for them. The party members know that and I pray that they will not repeat their mistake as with Camoron. Because the Dud is for sure the Heir to the Heir of Bliar. And enough is enough.

    A Purge is needed of all the Enemy Class scum who have shown their real feelings toward democracy and personal feelings over the last few months.

  4. Persona; freedom not feelings. Altho’ it is correct that leftscum’s personal feelings about personal freedom is that they hate it unless it is their freedom to impose tyranny on the rest of us.

  5. “Our democracy is badly served by such a tiny and unrepresentative number of people choosing the next prime minister”

    Who else does? A general election? But you would need a party leader for that.

  6. “Our democracy is badly served by such a tiny and unrepresentative number of people choosing [anything, really].”

    Indeed. I say, serve democracy by putting everything to a national vote: each bill, each parliamentary act, each motion of order.

    Because it does not serve democracy to have some tiny, unrepresentative minority of elected MPs making any decisions at all instead of the entire U.K. population.

    We may soon thereafter realise that we can abolish the House of Commons and the House of Lords, there no longer being need for what they do.

    Let one man run the country, set policies, and make decisions. We can call that man a King – or a Queen in the case of a female man.

  7. Well, perhaps we should have a directly elected leader then, instead of the Queen pretending to appoint her representative in the Commons. Perhaps we should not have to vote for a useless constituency benchwarmer to indirectly elect a government. Perhaps we should have separation of branches of government.

    And so on, and so on.

  8. bloke (temporarily not) in spain

    I’d have thought it was obvious. Party leaders should be chosen by the media. Then we’d get the right sort of party leaders. And politicians could choose who should & who shouldn’t be journalists. So we’d get the right sort of journalists.
    Perfection.

  9. Clearly, party leaders should be chosen by newspaper proprietors and their hacks. We should leave such tricky decisions to the experts.

  10. Ecksy
    I sympathise with your position, and I don’t like May; but Leadsom is not up to being PM. Though sound on brexit, Leadsom has over-egged her CV, is slow in debate on any matter other than brexit, is flakey on immigration and is very inexperienced (at a time when the UK needs an experienced operator). Pity that Gove lost out to Leadsom.

  11. Didn’t Phil used to write Tony Blair’s speeches? (when he wasn’t drumming for Genesis)

  12. Dear God Theo–May is UP to being PM?

    The most useless arrogant cow ever at the Home Office–including Smith?

    The only experience May has is in being a flop.

    Couldn’t care less if Leadsom was the Tea Lady and said she was the CEO.

    LEADSOM WILL DELIVER BREXIT–MAY WILL NOT.

    May WILL sabotage it.

  13. Theo-

    I think breaking continuity is the most important thing right now. Reversing out of the EU is not a politics as usual thing, and baggage will be a disadvantage. It is also a golden opportunity for the systemic reform (such as breaking up the Proggie quangocracy) which is urgently needed.

    We don’t have an open field of candidates (imagine a company hiring by this kind of messy system!) and now it’s either May or Leadsom. May isn’t the right person, we know that, so it’s time to take a risk on Leadsom.

    It’s also worth remembering that she will have advisors around her.

    Theresa May is already failing to think outside the box and sees Brexit as a problem rather than an opportunity. She is too institutionalised by a system that has been geared towards the progressive system of government epitomised by the EU for four decades, since Heath said, “Whitehall must become European”.

    This is a moment as important, perhaps more important, than 1945 or 1979. It is an opportunity for genuine change which must be seized; they come along very rarely. Continuity and “problem management” is simply the wrong mindset.

    And no, I haven’t got any “evidence”, this is an assessment, opinion, whatever.

  14. Ecksy
    May is a ditherer, and I accept most of your points. But Leadsom strikes me as a recognisable type found in Conservative Associations – a lightweight, professional, church-going woman with firm views on her chosen subject, but who is deeply lacking in curiosity about other matters. The brexit-hating civil service would eat her alive. Whatever you think of May, and I don’t think much of her, she’s surely right to say that the terms on which EU citizens can continue to reside here after brexit are up for negotiation. Leadsom, on the other hand, has not thought her naive position through, and she is already weakening her bargaining position with the EU.

  15. I think Brexiteers generally recognise that the EU is not the issue anymore and all this talk of endless negotiation and bargaining does more to weaken us.

    The Americans, Indians, Chinese, etc, all want to trade as freely as possible with us. Years of the EU’s sluggish negotiating process is more of a distraction than a primary issue.

    Your assessment of Leadsom may well be valid. But there are only two choices on the menu.

    Plus Steve Baker MP (overt libertarian) is backing her, so that’s a major endorsement from my perspective. They just have to stop her waffling on about babies.

  16. IanB
    There’s much truth in what you say above. While I agree that brexit represents an opportunity for reform, I think we must remember that the brexit vote is not a mandate for a revolution. The first priority must be to get the nation out of Brussels’ clutches, and on the right terms. Embarking on a war on the “proggie quangocracy” risks being a distraction.

  17. Theo, I think this has to be a revolution. If there isn’t major structural reform it will end up in a terrible mess. People were voting for more than Brexit, they were voting for change.

    The quangocracy represents a permanent enemy class of well-funded opponents of anything recognisable as conservatism or (classical) liberalism. It is Blair’s major legacy. I remember writing a blog some time back on Counting Cats about how they and the NGOs etc are the Trades Unions of our day. They need a similarly robust defeat.

    I think there is a desire for revolution. This is the opportunity. Just as 1979 was for Thatcher.

  18. Theo–you accept what I’m saying but you still want to give May a chance to wreck Brexit because?

    If Leadsom cocks up everything except Brexit she will still have earned her place in history. With Brexit and 4? years of an otherwise useless PM (–and I don’t think she would be useless:that is the line of lying remain MP scum and party hacks) the UK will still survive and thrive. If the Darling Dud delivers us back to the EU the end result will be the end of the UK and brazen tyranny–if not worse.

    Leadsom will follow thro on Brexit–May will tell us owt while she sabotages it.

  19. The irony is that Collins is a Remnant who believes the Brexit result should be ignored.

    Some issues need 17m votes to decide, others mysteriously don’t. Unlike a Blairite to be such a duplicitous cunt.

  20. Below is a post from Leadsom’s blog:
    http://www.andrealeadsom.com/working-for-you/andrea's-blog/a-tory-mums-recipe-for-a-perfect-british-society/27

    When she publishes embarrassing multi-culti drivel like this, you can see why hardline Brexiteers like Priti Patel, Liam Fox and Chris Grayling are backing May.

    A Tory mum’s recipe for a perfect British society

    Take one cup of Anglo Saxon determination;
    Mix with a jugful of Muslim respect for the family;
    Stir in a pinch of traditional Asian modesty;
    Whisk with two tablespoonsful of military respect for authority;
    Serve on a bed of East European work ethic;
    And enjoy with a full glass of British belief in the freedom of the individual!

    There is a serious point here – we in the so called ‘Western civilisations’ have so much to learn from other cultures, and they would stand to gain so much by learning from ours. We don’t have all the answers – far from it… but nor do any other culture or religion. It’s only by mutual respect, a willingness to learn and the courage to live together that we will build a better life for our children.

    Pass the sickbag…

  21. What else is she going to say in today’s climate Theo?

    Send them all home?

    Are you yourself advocating forced repatriation of the RoP?

    Then why make standard boilerplate multi-culti crap Exhibit A for the prosecution?

    When May has told us how we benefit from Sharia Law in the UK?

    You know the “beat your wife if she won’t wear the bag over her head” Sharia law.

    You will have to do better than that Theo.

  22. IanB

    I think this has to be a revolution.

    You sound like a Militant Tendency or Momentum activist. The Brexit vote is not a mandate for revolution. The vast majority of those who voted Leave are small-c social conservatives who are weary of EU-imposed regulation and change (eg metric measurements) and who are concerned about mass immigration. Reform, Yes; revolution, No.

    If there isn’t major structural reform it will end up in a terrible mess.

    That needs a lot of further argument and evidence to support it. Arguably, Brexit is more likely to be a “terrible mess” if those charged with implementing it spread their forces too thin in order to fight on several different fronts at once.

    People were voting for more than Brexit, they were voting for change.

    What evidence do you have for that assertion? People were voting for Brexit – not for a huge and unspecified programme of change not directly related to Brexit, such as a war on “proggie quangos”, etc.

  23. Ecksy

    She doesn’t have to publish such drivel, and you know it. Immigration was one of the key issues in the Brexit campaign (thanks to UKIP) and Leadsom is flakey on the issue. The more I look at Leadsom, the more I see an inexperienced version of May.

    And do you really think May will keep us in the EU when to do so would be electoral suicide and she is backed by many hardline Brexiteers?

  24. Yes Theo.. She won’t call it that –but that is what it will amount to and you are going to do your best to make it happen.

    And polits spewing drivel is par for the course. Brexit is all that matters.

    The only experience May has is failure , incompetence, tinpot dictatorial arrogance, self-serving and stupid soundbites. And a pronounced taste for Camoron’s version of BluLab upper class cultural Marxism.

    Also to talk about immigration and the Darling Dud in the same breath is a laughable exercise in self deception. 30,000 supposed to be allowed in 330,000 actually let in plus Christ only knows how many illegals. From the dozy complacent cow who has left us with just 3 patrol boats.

    Hopefuly –from what I see on the blogs and elsewhere– not all Tory party members are gifted with your powers of ?whatever? and the Darling Dud is no more popular than she ought to be.

  25. Also no one is suggesting that the forces of CM be taken on in all areas at once. But the vote was about far more than just the EU.

    People are sick of bullshit leftist dogma and its results.

    Brexit first –then the careful destruction of the left. But do not allow your habitual smug certainty to delude you Theo. We must move soon to destroy the left or they will destroy everything worthwhile that the West has created.

  26. By ditching Gove, the Tory MPs have shown themselves to be a bunch of limp-cocked PC Blairites.

  27. I don’t recall an option on the referendum “do you want to reform the EU”. I recall ones asking to remain in the EU or to leave.

  28. They’re both crap except we know rather more about May than we do about Leadsom. That this is the choice laid before the Conservative Party is a tribute to the sheer mendacity of the majority of Conservative MPs. Of course, the Conservative establishment want May: she’ll be a simple extension of the Cameroon ascendancy. Evidence? The whips (against the spirit certainly and letter probably of the Conservative Party rule book) were arm-twisting in favour of May while Cameron was preparing his resignation.

    The Conservatives have a tradition (well, they are “conservatives” after all) of selecting the establishment favourite. Even in 1940, with Britain humiliated by the Norway debacle, Conservative MPs voted down a motion of no confidence in Chamberlain and, when Chamberlain resigned anyway, the Conservative establishment chose Lord Halifax (the arch-appeaser) as his successor. It was only the refusal of Labour to serve under Halifax which gave Churchill the Prime Ministership.

    As to Mrs T: she was selected by complete accident since Heath was expected to win the 1975 leadership election but the idiots in charge over-egged the pudding (plus Hugh Fraser got sufficient votes to force a re-run), Heath dropped out and Mrs T became leader. The establishment didn’t make the same mistake twice. When Mrs T came up for re-election in 1990, the guy in charge of her re-election strategy was seen snoozing in his office (by Alan Clark) instead of getting the vote out for Mrs T.

    I’d favour Leadsom here: not because of any notion of superior ability or canniness but because she might deliver a genuine Brexit. May is, I would submit, both incompetent generally and a (not so) closet hard Remainer as are those who will contrive her selection. She’ll see to it that the Brexit negotiations will either founder or, more likely, continue ad infinitum until a general election – and whatever that election throws up – sees us, effectively, still part of “le projet”. Whoever wins that general election will claim that the results have reversed the referendum decision so we can go on as before (after all, most MPs are – and will stay – Remainers). There might even be a re-run of the referendum at that point since, by that time, more members of the idiocracy will be qualified to vote and thus a Remainer victory cannot be ruled out.

  29. Party member here. Have qualms about process, which should be for MPs, but will vote May. Leadsom too much of an unknown.

  30. The Inimitable Steve

    I’m not a member of the Tories and don’t like either option but I’d prefer Leadsome or whatever her name is because she’s not May.

    The one who looks like a senior trolley dolly is probably useless, but we already know May is proven useless. It’d be a strategic mistake for the Tories to choose the heir to the heir of Blair.

  31. John Price: Assuming you’re not a troll trying to stir it–a big assumption because you are–what you are saying is that rather than take a chance you will go with May– a known POS who IS failure and double-dealing in knickers.

    You are a Remainder ie useless, leftover waste.

  32. Mr Ecks

    If John Price is genuinely a member of the Conservatives then, of course, the odds are he’d go with May. After all, since Cameron became PM, who except a complete wet would have stayed in the rank and file of the party. Apparently, according to this in 2010 membership was 177,000 and now is around 134,000. They’ll vote the way they’re told by CCHQ.

  33. Ecksy

    “Smug certainty” is a better description of you than of me. You are absolutely convinced that Leadsom is better than May. I am not convinced that May is better than Leadsom – you are right about May’s record of non-achievement – but I am leaning in that direction.

    If May, and not Leadsom, had written that multi-culti crap, you’d be using it as confirmation of your bias.

  34. Inimitable Steve

    I’d concede that Leadsom, the trolley dolly look-a-like, has the better tits.

  35. I hope not Umbongo. And ConHome–for what that is worth –is 3 or 4 to 1 against May. She doesn’t seem to be fooling them.

    For all his smuggery and ego Theo for example is a basically decent bloke but lots of people seem to be treating life-changing or life-destroying votes as if it was a vote as to who is funnier: Morecambe & Wise or the Two Ronnies.

    Fuck this up folks and it is you and I and any progeny we have who will pay dearly indeed for our mistakes.

    Leadsom maybe largely useless–save for Brexit and banging Article 50 in. That is what matters. She can be Queen Log for anything other than Brex for all I care. We will survive. Free of the ESpew we will prosper. We have to ditch the bastards.

  36. “If May, and not Leadsom, had written that multi-culti crap, you’d be using it as confirmation of your bias.”

    Because she has six years of bungled actions on her part to show that she means it. May has proven herself a failure and one who is a remain creep. She WILL sabotage Brexit Theo. And if you vote for her you are endorsing that. Have no illusions.

    Plus however thick Leadsom MIGHT be she could not match the “100,000 underage Viet girls being forced to work as sex slaves in Nail Salons ” crap. Said with a straight face and not the slightest thought to the HoC.

    Vote for May =deliberate decision to hand this country back to the EU.

  37. Ecksy — you, as often, make some good points very powerfully. Leadsom or May, what an appalling choice!

  38. Theo-

    I am a revolutionary. Attlee was a revolutionary, Thatcher was a revolutionary and Blair was a revolutionary. They took the reins of government not to keep a steady hand on the tiller but to make revolutionary changes. Thatcher was the most successful Conservative Prime Minister or leader of the post-war period. There is no shame in revolution.

    It depends what sort of revolution you want. The question now is whether we continue to pursue Blair’s revolution, or have another one in a different direction.

    This is twee I admit; but so was Jesus. So was Mohammed. What matters is what they sought to achieve. Resisting change is not much use if you’re already up to your neck in sewage and the trajectory is downwards.

  39. And talking twee, yes, that “recipe” is twee multi-culti bilge.

    But then if I were to say that the Anglo Saxon ingredient is delightful and satisfying on its own, I’d be a racist.

  40. If Leadsom is lightweight, there is nothing to stop her surrounding herself with strong people. Create a good team with all the complimentary skills. Put Gove in charge of negotiating the exit. Etc.

    The important thing is that we move in the right direction. That’s why May is unfit for this.

    And even if May was committed to Brexit (which is unlikely), with her stupid earlier comments on EU nationals, she proves she understands nothing of Brexit.

  41. (Try again, it looks like my post got blocked)

    If Leadsom is lightweight, there is nothing to stop her surrounding herself with strong people. Create a good team with all the complimentary skills. Put Gove in charge of negotiating the exit. Etc.

    The important thing is that we move in the right direction. That’s why May is unfit for this.

    And even if May was committed to Brexit (which is unlikely), with her stupid earlier comments on EU nationals, she proves she understands nothing of Brexit.

  42. …the Anglo Saxon ingredient is delightful and satisfying on its own…

    How could you possibly tell? Even the white population of Southern England is genetically more French (from migrations thousands of years ago) than Anglo Saxon.

  43. Madam May was the woman that buggered up the overseas passport issue take-back from the FCO for the Home Office and set up a system that took ten weeks to get a new passport to me and only did so when I mentioned my dying father and how that would look in the press.

    From what I can see, it is fairly typical of her. Leadsom is an unknown quantity but heads in the right direction. She has people to choose from for the Exchequer, Home Office, FCO, Defence etc etc.

    I suspect that she is hoping Corbyn continues as she doesn’t have Cameron’s sharp wit and comeback skills.

    Daughter’s ex (solid labour) worked with her in the DECC and had time for her, as a hands on, committed person, good team member and integratory (just like M. May?). I am taking this as a good sign but…

  44. But the truth is that none of the group were, a priori, PM material.

    But then anyone (even May) might grow into the job. Cameron did (even if he went the wrong way).

  45. I’m curious why do you think May is a bad home sec? Don’t think its been a bad few years crime and terrorism-wise and the immigration side is hardly down to who you have sitting in Cabinet. She may be remain but my guess its in a keep your nose clean and keep your job, when she thought remain would win and Cameron would be her boss.

  46. IanB

    Of the three PM’s you mention, I would call Attlee and Thatcher major reformers, even radical reformers, but not revolutionaries. By comparison, Princess Tony (h/t Ecksy) was a wet fart. Anyway, if what you mean by ‘revolution’ is ‘radical reform’, I wouldn’t object too much about your choice of term, though I think it potentially misleading.

    I certainly want to see government policy move rightward and well away from all the damage done by the Blairites and Labour generally, but brexit has to be the priority. The electorate voted for the Conservative manifesto in 2015, and since then the electorate has voted for the government to implement brexit. Neither of those votes give a new PM (who has never faced the electorate as party leader) a mandate for radical change, however desirable I might think the proposed changes to be. For a new PM to have such a new and radical mandate, there would have to be another general election. But, unfortunately, this would simply postpone or slow down brexit, giving the Remnants time to re-group and urge a vote for Labour or the Lib Dumps.

  47. SBML – I know 1 or 2 so I will. Last time i spoke to one he was not keen on police commissioners. That was her project was it? Public not overly keen but not a disaster yet AFAICT . .. but he shuddered at having to ultimately report into someone who walked in off the street.

  48. Based on the last couple of decades no one who has served as Home Secretary should ever be allowed to become PM, there’s something about that job that seems to twist people

  49. PF

    If Leadsom is lightweight, there is nothing to stop her surrounding herself with strong people. Create a good team with all the complimentary skills. Put Gove in charge of negotiating the exit. Etc.

    Granted, there’s – apparently – nothing to stop her doing as you say; but the question is whether she is likely to do so. She’s an inexperienced politician and a lightweight. In my experience, lightweights nearly always over-estimate their abilities (as she has done in her CV). Intoxicated by her victory and prone to ego-inflation, I fear she’d make bad appointments and be easy meat for the brexit-hating civil service.

    The important thing is that we move in the right direction. That’s why May is unfit for this.

    But then why are hardline brexiteers like Chris Grayling, Liam Fox and Priti Patel lining up behind May? They all worked with Leadsom in the Leave campaign, and they’ve seen her up close.

    And even if May was committed to Brexit (which is unlikely), with her stupid earlier comments on EU nationals, she proves she understands nothing of Brexit.

    Why are May’s comments on EU nationals “stupid”? They seem sensible to me, and Leadsom’s remarks are the stupid ones. Why give up a key negotiating point now without securing the rights of UK citizens in the EU? All Leadsom is doing is suggesting to the EU that she will not drive hard bargains. And I fear that, with her corporate mindset, Leadsom is soft on immigration – possibly to the point of conceding unilateral free movement.

  50. Theophrastus:

    “The Brexit vote is not a mandate for revolution. The vast majority of those who voted Leave are small-c social conservatives who are weary of EU-imposed regulation and change (eg metric measurements) and who are concerned about mass immigration. Reform, Yes; revolution, No.”

    Irrelevant. There isn’t much time to save Britain as it currently exists, and doing so will involve Geert Wilders style closed borders, deportations, and harsh justice. If this isn’t done soon then it will become impossible to do in future. More Muslim immigration to the UK means a more Islamised UK. Since Islam is a violent and supremacist political ideology, this is generally bad news for the UK.

    Neither May nor Leadsom will do what is required, but it is about a direction of travel. Inexperienced Leadsome or not, May is the obvious establishment stooge here. What is at stake is too serious to worry whether Leadsome is a polished political performer.

  51. Libertarians are uniquely vulnerable to takeover by ideological opponents because they always support free movement and free action, even when that movement and action is directed at eventual ending of such rights for the libertarians in question.

    Fighting an opponent like Islam requires action a bit like that which Islam takes against subject peoples in Islamic lands, just without the raping and murder. It is insane to pretend that Muslims wish us well.

  52. Theo

    Re EU nationals living here, we need in this country to be the optimists, not half empty like the Remainiacs.

    Optimism needs confidence. Remain have talked this country down at every turn, both pre and post the vote.

    A confident UK says to those that are here, many in the City and in crucial roles elsewhere: Those of us already fighting “for” the UK are all going to carry on that process, and try and make it a whole lot better.

    May, by contrast, showed her inherent negativity in terms of what she thinks Brexit is all about. She doesn’t understand it. She listened to the dog whistle / the media’s interpretation, and thought “I’ll pretend to act tough on immigration, that’s what Brexit is all about.”

    She helped create even more uncertainty; that’s why I regarded her comment as ill judged (if stupid was the wrong word) by comparison to Leadsom’s much better “big picture” judgement on that issue.

    We talk about lightweight, but I don’t see May, for all her experience, as any kind of heavyweight…

  53. Theo

    “I fear she’d make bad appointments and be easy meat for the brexit-hating civil service.”

    If she’s got any sense, she will already be lining up one or two key people. I’ve no idea how this all works, but suppose she managed to get (say) Gove to agree to head the Brexit negotiation (before the members voted)? For example?

    Sure May could do the same kind of thing (same people? I’ve no idea!) but it would help Leadsom head off those arguments against her nice and early.

    Anyone fancy Boris for Foreign Secretary…

  54. bloke (temporarily not) in spain

    I have , Mr Ecks, long thought the Tory Party is a much greater danger than Labour. After all, the Labour Party has only prospered in recent times by emulating the Tories. Open socialism can be fought & there’s little appetite for the Red Menace amongst the public, anyway. But the socialism in a suit, the Tories peddle is insidious & persuasive. It’s fascism with good table manners.

  55. tomsmith

    May is the obvious establishment stooge here

    Then why are hardline brexiteers like Fox, Grayling and Patel supporting her?

    PF:

    There are numerous EU citizens who should get their marching orders. Yesterday, five muslim Gambians with Spanish citizenship died in an accident in a Birmingham scrap metal yard. They had managed to bring over their families (directly from The Gambia, if some reports are correct), who will have been supported by tax credits and benefits and now will be living entirely off the state. After brexit, they should all be put on the first plane back to Madrid or Banjul.

    May is not a heavyweight, except by comparison with Leadsom (I would recommend perusing her blog, if you doubt this). Leadsom did so badly at the hustings for MPs that one observer described her as “Sarah Palin. Without the brains.”…

  56. bloke (temporarily not) in spain

    Heavens! If only the Tory Party could muster someone of the calibre of Sarah Palin.

  57. “first plane back to Madrid”

    Presumably exhumed first?

    Family directly from the Gambia – then perhaps not Spanish citizens?

    But if they were Spanish citizens and their husbands had just tragically died… Oh never mind!

    Repatriation is a dangerous game? I must admit I didn’t have you down as one of that clan. Surely Brexit is about the future and the direction we now intend to take?

  58. Bloke in North Dorset

    “@Hallowed Be, ask a policeman what they think of May. To a man and woman they’ll be negative about May.”

    Is that supposed to be a plus or negative?

    Civilian control of the uniformed services is a key requirement of any democracy and what we need as Home Secratary is someone who represents us, not the police.

  59. @ Theophrastus
    Those families should now be living off the scrap metal firm’s insurer, not the state. And they should be getting *far more* than the tax credit limit. If I was running the insurer I should be making advance payments to cover their immediate needs pending an investigation (good PR as well as a tiny bit of justice).

  60. PF

    “Presumably exhumed first?”

    ‘They’ referred to the families. Almost the last thing the UK needs is more muslim breeders.

    Of course, Brexit is about the future, and in that future we should not be importing low skill, minimum wage workers from the EU. Those that are here should have to apply to stay, in accordance with an Oz-style points system.

    Incidentally, Leadsom’s naïve comment will probably encourage a pre-brexit surge in immigration, because migrants will feel reassured that they will not be asked to leave after brexit. May’s comments will discourage such a surge, though many will still take a chance.

  61. The only person May has regard for is herself. Whatever is oppressive–for the good guys–she will be there. Speaking out for white people gets you labelled with “hatespeech and “racist”.

    Islamic-issued threats and abuse get you let off. May is at the heart of that.

    As for the “hard-line Brexiters” Greyling & whoever (one of the nastiest twerps around in any camp) they– like May– are calculating their chances because that is what it is about for most political hacks. Themselves.

    Doesn’t matter how useless Leadsom MIGHT be. We know the Darling Dud is useless. She has proved it repeatedly.

    May will knowingly, willingly and deliberately sabotage Brexit to keep us under the EU thumb.

    Hold your nose if you have to–but think of the kilometre-wide grin May will put on Drunkers ugly mug–and vote Leadsom.

  62. Of course, Brexit is about the future, and in that future we should not be importing low skill, minimum wage workers from the EU.

    Or probably anywhere else for that matter – absolutely agreed,

    Those that are here should have to apply to stay, in accordance with an Oz-style points system.

    Vienna Convention?

  63. Andrea Leadsom is my choice.

    May is good at ony one thing: hiding. She is too steeped in “more of the same” mindset to lead a country which voted to leave the EU.

    Leadsom is new with no baggage or favours owed. She has no history as a Spad or other politico.

    Unlike those other PMs with no cabinet experience – Blair & Cameron who manipulated and schemed for years within Westminster to become party leader.

    Cometh the hour, cometh the man

    P

  64. May has demonstrated she can’t deal with civil service capture as home office agenda seems pretty much the same as under labour.

    America has Clinton the crook vs trump the racist ( at least that seems to be how the media is playing it)

    Now the UK has May vs leadsom and labour is angling for Corbyn vs Blair clone 2

    The state of politics really is scrapping the bottom of the barrel isn’t it if this is the best that we can come up with

  65. Agreed BniC . But we can only start from where we are not where we would like to be.

    Leadsom–whatever her failings–will bang in Article 50 and Brexit begins.

    May will sabotage it in every way possible.

    Simple as that.

  66. PF
    “Vienna Convention?”
    Legal opinions vary about the relevance of the Convention to Brexit. If people are in the UK because they claimed asylum in another EU state and then moved here once they had an EU passport, it would not be unreasonable to return them to their original EU state, as by leaving the EU the UK is abrogating the treaties and agreements under which they arrived. That said, until the Human Rights Act is repealed, it would probably be impossible.

  67. I was hoping the debate here could convince me who is better, May or Leadsom. But all it’s convinced me of is that they’re both crap.

    The only halfway-useful Tory seems to be Gove. (Well, that’s not quite true. There are some on the backbenches too, but they’ll remain shut out.) It’s vital that whoever wins gives him a major Brexit position. I haven’t seen any indication of that so far.

    Still pissed off with Boris for being so useless. He should have grabbed the mantle when he had the chance instead of falling back into his old slothful ways.

  68. @Bloke in North Dorset, what you say sounds good, so long as the Home Secretary supports the police force, and doesn’t cut it or undermine it. As for uniformed services, does that include custom’s officials and parking attendants?

  69. Eur In Trouble Now

    Apart from being a CV inflator, not understanding central banking, and being an economic moron (“sterling’s holding up nicely!”), Leadsom is a god-bothering nanny-state censor who doesn’t understand how the internet works.

    For the full details visit TW’s old parish: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/07/08/leadsom_thinks_websites_should_be_rated/

    The notion that the nation, facing an incipient economic crisis, a major transition, and years of tough negotiations, needs an inexperienced lightweight PM is delusional gibbering.

  70. EITN:

    “The notion that the nation, facing an incipient economic crisis, a major transition, and years of tough negotiations, needs an inexperienced lightweight PM is delusional gibbering.”

    When there is only a choice between two lightweights, I would tend to choose the one who has not proven herself to be a dangerous, lying, authoritarian lightweight. We can see what May is; anyone that wants the UK to leave the EU voting for May would be very confused.

  71. @ BiND
    “Civilian control of the uniformed services is a key requirement of any democracy”
    Totally true. However the quality of the civilian(s) in control also matters as Sir John Chilcot has pointed out. “Lions led by donkeys” is not the optimum solution.
    Mrs May hasn’t done too badly – six years as Home Secretary without a scandal/disaster requiring a resignation is a record for my lifetime.

  72. Theo

    Now you’re talking – those little bits of grey thrown into the mix may have much merit..;)

    EUr

    A “comment” from the same Register article:

    “I will judge her not for coming up with a dumb idea (4 years ago) but by how she reacts when someone explains to her why it is dumb.”

    I’m not sure poor Tess has ever passed that test!

  73. “Mrs May hasn’t done too badly – six years as Home Secretary without a scandal/disaster requiring a resignation is a record for my lifetime.”

    Sorry but that is piffle.

    She has failed at everything. Crime up /crims not deported/border control non-existent/ stood by while legions of migrants –legal and illegal –pour in –and then passes as much snooping and authoritarian bullshit as she can force thro on the grounds the country is full of terrorists. She should fucking know as she stood by while they strolled in.

    ETN: More nonsense–there is no light-er-weight than May save the Slimcia girl. She doesn’t have the brains of a fucking gnat.

    But however stupid she is the remainers pulling her strings will ensure that Article 50 won’t be going in at all.

    All the effort and good luck that went in to the Leave vote now stands in danger of being pissed against the wall in less than 3 months by BluLab.

    Even if they are both lightweights–and we don’t know in the case of Leadsom whereas we do for May–one is a lightweight who wants out of the EU and one is a Camoron-sucking CM con-artist.

  74. May for me admittedly on not much information, I don’t get a vote on it so we shall see whether mr and mrs Tory agree. She;’s kept her nose clean and she’s not mucked things up. That’ll do pig, that’ll do.

    Personalities aside The one principle should for Brexit negotiation… is we’ll agree terms trade with EU/UK, but not up for discussion any restrictions/ codes/ understandings/ consultations/ votes/ summits to wit anything about trade with non-eu members. If we’re going to make this work need to have a completely free hand to negotiate with the non-eu members.

  75. Bloke in North Dorset

    “@Bloke in North Dorset, what you say sounds good, so long as the Home Secretary supports the police force, and doesn’t cut it or undermine it. As for uniformed services, does that include custom’s officials and parking attendants?”

    SBML,

    You noticed I streched civilian control f the armed forces 🙂 Given the way anyone in this country who wears a uniform of any description outside the armed services tends to develop authoritarian tendencies, then yes.

  76. Bloke in North Dorset

    John77,

    “Sir John Chilcot has pointed out. “Lions led by donkeys” is not the optimum solution”

    Obviously Chilcot hasn’t read Blood, Sweat and Poppycock. What was he doing all those year of the enquirey? He deserves to lose his K.

  77. Richard North, of “EU Referendum”, seems torn between the choice of May and Leadsom. It seems Leadsom will be a vector of banality and chaos, whereas May will be a safe route to a potentially terrible agreement.

    Perhaps Brexit is equally in peril with both. Plus two months of random negativity for the economy while the Tories go through the ludicrously torturous process of selecting one of these goons.

    Although Gove looks like the ambitious dweeby boy whose trousers just fell down around his ankles, it’s hard not to think he saved us from a bullet by downing Boris. The fat twat ran away mighty fast at the first hurdle. There must be some bad shit on him. Maybe he was at the other end of the pig. Or he was the pig.

    I was sure we’d vote to leave, but I’m afraid I can offer no intestinal insight as to whether that vote will make any difference.

  78. @ Mr Ecks (as usual) not to read what I wrote. Mrs May is the only Home Secretary in my lifetime who has survived six years without quitting or being forced to resign. Charles Clarke said that the Home Office was not fit for purpose (which may explain why Blunkett as Home Secretary was to the right of Michael Howard as Home Secretary).
    That doesn’t prove that she is wonderful, just suggests that she is less bad than any other Home Secretary since Henry Brooke.

  79. Please correct if mis-staken, but as far as I know there has been no successful terrorist incident in the UK involving 3+ conspirators while May has been in charge.
    Alas, for operational reasons we don’t know if this is because May has done well, the police have done well, or the generally excellent Great British public have done well by shopping anyone suspected to be planning something big and bad before it got to execution stage.

  80. One could take guidance from the left. As in usually wrong.

    And they seem to be petrified of Leadsom, judging by yesterday’s Mirror front page.

    If they thought Leadsom was going to be so lightweight and ineffective, then – exactly like the Conservatives with Jezza, – calls from the Mirror and other leftie rags might have had Julia frantically upping production?

    Instead the Mirror are busy depicting Leadsom as a Tory extremist or “Maggie 2”.

  81. PF

    …the Mirror are busy depicting Leadsom as a Tory extremist or “Maggie 2”.

    That doesn’t mean they are petrified of Leadsom: it more likely means that they want her in post – just as the Tory press decried Corbyn and yet in fact wanted him in post. Beware of confirmation bias. 😉

  82. Theo,

    I was conscious as soon as I hit the post button that my argument had a logical inconsistency! I thought I had got away with it..:)

  83. John 77–It is called luck–our bad luck since it positions you to claim not falling into an obvious pile of shite as an “achievement” –and her undeserved good luck.

    Smith was an obvious tea-leaf mostly.

    And May is an obvious CM traitor and heir to the heir of Bliar.

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