Not a good argument Polly

What is to become of us? Cameron has led us into a state of paralysing uncertainty, at the mercy of erratic negotiations with 27 countries over which we have no say. Take back control?

If we stayed in then those 27 over which we have no control would be deciding everything for us, no?

38 thoughts on “Not a good argument Polly”

  1. Bloke in Cornwall

    I would go one further Tim – who cares about the 27 countries? the only one with an economy worth caring about in terms of trade is germany and if they are dumb enough to block trade with us they won’t matter for long…

    There are a lot more that 27 other countries in the world worth trading with and i’m sure we can find “like for like” size economies to trade with – (examples below but no idea of current arrangements, i assume tariffs apply…)

    Germany – China
    France – United States
    Italy – Japan
    Spain – Canada
    Finland – India
    Sweden – Australia

  2. I don’t think we’re the only country with a democratic deficit with Brussels/Strasbourg.

    Surely a significant part of the Brexit argument was that it would be the Eurocrats (and particularly the Commission) making the decisions rather than the 27 countries?

  3. If there were any good arguments for Remain, surely someone would have made one of them during the campaign. Instead we got Project Fear.

    This should have been the Remain campaign poster:

  4. Snippets from Wikipedia:

    After attending Badminton School, a girls’ independent school in Bristol, followed by the Holland Park School, a state comprehensive school in London (she had failed the eleven plus examination) she passed one A-level. She won a scholarship to read history at St Anne’s College, Oxford, but dropped out of university after eighteen months.

    She is … deputy treasurer of the Fabian Society.

    In 1995, Toynbee criticised Paul Condon’s comments that 80% of mugging cases were committed by black people, stating that it was “an over-simplification that is seriously misleading”.

    Toynbee strongly supports state education, though she had two of her three children partly educated in the private sector, leading to accusations of hypocrisy.

    Boris Johnson … rejected any association with Toynbee’s views, writing that she “incarnates all the nannying, high-taxing, high-spending schoolmarminess of Blair’s Britain. Polly is the high priestess of our paranoid, mollycoddled, risk-averse, airbagged, booster-seated culture of political correctness and ‘elf ‘n’ safety fascism”.

    Toynbee was awarded an Honorary Degree by the University of Essex in 1999 and by London South Bank University in 2002. In 2005, she was made an Honorary Doctor of The Open University for “her notable contribution to the educational and cultural well-being of society”. The University of Leeds awarded her third Honorary Doctorate in 2008.

    The Toynbees have been prominent in British intellectual society for several generations.

    Etc., etc. Just the thing to read if you’re in need of a downer.

  5. The Meissen Bison

    [We are] at the mercy of erratic negotiations with 27 countries over which we have no say.

    Would I expect trenchant logic from Polly Toynbee? No, but the notion that ‘we’ have no say in negotiating the terms of Brexit should strike even her as far-fetched.

  6. More terrified pearl-clutching from Polly. What an incorrigible old conservative she is.

    Embrace change, Polly.

  7. All

    You have no idea the inconvenience needing a visa for trips to Tuscany will impose on La Toynbee, let alone the likely increase in Airfares – she probably hasn’t had a pay rise above inflation in a decade. How is this latter day Mrs Dutt Pauker supposed to make ends meet?

  8. The Inimitable Steve

    Elsewhere in Guardianland, the bumhurt over Boris is blistering.

    Some of the spicier reactions:

    The Brussels correspondent of German public broadcaster ZDF, Anne Gellink, said that Johnson was “properly, properly hated” and seen as “the head of a campaign of lies” in the EU’s headquarters.

    If only the German language had a word for the schadenfreude I am feeling right now.

    And nonagenarian pop star / human Tussauds exhibit Cher The Ever-Living shared her analysis:

    Think He’s
    F-ing Idiot who lied to British ppl
    & Didnt have the⚽️2 LEAD
    THEM ONCE “LEAVE”VOTE WON‼️..anymore questions

    Beefy Caledonian typist Val McDermid frets:

    BOJO Foreign Secretary? Oh, FFS. Just when you think it can’t get any worse. How many countries can we offend by Saturday?

    Hopefully all of them, Val.

  9. About time her colleagues and friends started responding to each instance of her infantile drivel with

    Polly – put the fvcking kettle on!

  10. “…If only the German language had a word for the schadenfreude I am feeling right now….”


  11. TIS: “If only the German language had a word for the schadenfreude I am feeling right now. ”

    They might Steve . Try “Italian Bank Bailout” in German.

  12. “How on earth did she get a scholarship to Oxford having passed only one A level??”

    More than that – how did she even matriculate? Either the story is wrong or they made a special deal for the Toynbee family, like they did for the Milibands.

  13. The Meissen Bison

    How on earth did she get a scholarship to Oxford having passed only one A level??

    It’s for the usual reason.

    How did prince Charles get into Cambridge? Same kind of thing.

  14. How on earth did she get a scholarship to Oxford having passed only one A level??

    Surely cannot be anything to do with her surname. Must be another explanation.

  15. And you’re the guys that want Farage knighted. You twats. Be consistent.

    All criticism of Johnson is valid. All he brings to the table is risk.

    Why hasn’t he been a frontline politician before now? Because he didn’t want it?

  16. The Inimitable Steve

    Lawrence – I don’t want Farage knighted. He should be made a Life Peer.

    What’s the “risk” of having Boris in office?

    That he might offend someone? Who cares?

  17. TMB, from the link:

    “The latest academic research began in October 2013 with Oxford University Phd student, Rys Farthing, who came to Toynbee Hall to start this innovative and non-traditional project; carrying out research directly with young people in order to give them a voice and the tools needed to do it themselves.”

    Someone got there first.

  18. The Meissen Bison

    Arnster: You twats. Be consistent.

    You want to go easy on the Tomorite, old chap, – it seems to exacerbate your condition.

    Nemo 🙂

  19. Wow, I’ve just googled “toynbee”, I didn’t realise she was the scion of a whole family of Toynbee, I thought she was so obviously a one-off. No idea if she’s in the family mould or an abberation.

  20. Ecks

    Do you know what Ecks? You should die 150 million times.

    That’s about how many times you’ve repeated yourself.

    I’m not sure how you think I’m part of any crimes against humanity. The only bile on this blog is yours. The filth that you are, reciting Stormfront.

    Do you have children, Ecksy? A family? Are they proud of you? Or have you shot them all because they once expressed something you disagreed with?

    Fuck off back to your tent and don’t forget the potassium permanganate. We wouldn’t want you getting dysentery.

    You could meet up with Van Patten and talk about who’s eeeeeevilest.

  21. Careful Larri–you’ll get spit on the burgers.

    Back to Stormfront –again?. And you accuse me of repetition?

    I don’t read socialist publications–already told you that.

    Nobody has said that you personally have killed anybody. But that doesn’t mean that you can start fresh endorsing and promoting the same leftist shite that did kill all those poor bastards. As if none of it ever happened.

    The Memory Hole was what Orwell metaphorically called it I believe.

    Well sorry Arnald but you aren’t going to throw all those people down the Memory Hole and preach your bright leftist future.

    And if I have to repeat “150 million” 150 million times that is just what I’ll do.

  22. @ Dongguan Juan, Rob and TMB
    In !964 Oxford & Cambridge Entrance and Scholarship Examinations were separate from and independent of ‘A’ level exams. Minimum requirements for matriculation had not been formally updated when National certificate exams were replaced by ‘O’ levels and ‘A’ levels, so they were pretty trivial (something like 5 ‘O’ or ‘A’ levels including Maths English and Latin or an equivalent). What mattered was how well you did in the entrance exam (if my maths ‘A’ levels had mattered I’d have worked for them).
    So we have to assume that St.Anne’s set an exam (or shared a History exam set by a group of colleges) and Polly either did very well in it or got a Miliband “get into Oxford Free card”.
    Similarly dubious is Polly taking the 11+ plus in the hope of attending Grammar School (Badminton being a very good school but one of the most expensive Girl Schools) and then claiming to be in the catchment area of Holland Park Comprehensive in an area that didn’t have an 11+ examination.
    Gap year in 1996? Born in 1946? Possibly just incompetent editing by Wikipedia. If she took Oxford Entrance when she was 19 in November 1965 she would have 8-9 months gap [not a Gap Year] between leaving school at Christmas and going up at the beginning of October 1966. So she was two years older than I and most other kids when taking Oxford entrance (we mostly took the entrance exam aged 17 and went up aged 18, although a few took the exam aged 16. going up at 17 and I knew a couple who won scholarships at 16, took a Gap Year and went up at 18).

  23. @ TMB
    In view of the mess made of Charkes’ education for political reasons (especially, but not just, sending him off to geelong to study a completely different syllabus) that he got three decent ‘A’ levels shows that he is quite reasonably bright (not Nobel prize level but above the norm for provincial universities) and works hard. It is vastly unfair to classify him with La Toynbee.

  24. Thank you John that’s very interesting. Was anyone allowed to take the entrance exam or was there some filtering first?

  25. @ Lawrence
    I’ve just read La Toynbee in order to try to understand your comment – she does not mention Boris, she is carping about Cameron not doing the impossible. Try to drink a little coffee when you are next nodding off over the Grauniad and you might remember which article talks about whom.

  26. The Meissen Bison

    John77 – I think that the point I was trying to make is that there used to be ways that candidates could gain places at Oxford or Cambridge without fulfilling the admission requirements applying to other applicants. The comparison between HRH and Polly T begins and ends there.

    Dongguan John – The filtering was probably achieved by a consensus between parents, pupils and schools. The entrance exams being in the ‘7th term’ tended to winnow out the no-hopers. Strictly speaking, anyone might have been allowed to sit the papers but they were invigilated at schools.

    Arnie – What is it with you and potassium? No sooner do I suggest that for your mental stability and anger management you cut down on the Tomorite (high in K2O) than you urge Ecksy to stock up on Condy’s crystals (KMnO4). If the neighbouring and priapic Cotentin is giving you feelings of inadequacy why not try ketamine which you might find soothing?

  27. @ TMB
    Yes, there were a lot of rowers and rugby players (well, two or three, up to half-a-dozen in a bad year)* and admission requirements for Rhodes scholars were not purely academic. But Charles did have a couple of decent ‘A’ levels and earned a second class honours degree, which means he was actually good enough to be at Cambridge. Evidence that La Toynbee was good enough to be at Oxford is absent from Wikipedia.

    *Relatively few blues got in on sporting rather than academic achievements: one of my friends was a schoolboy international and felt hurt that a lot of people assumed that he didn’t get his place purely on academic merit. I did know one guy who was assumed to have got a postgraduate place for his ability in one sport (and subsequently represented his country at the Olympics in another) but he was bright enough anyway.

  28. Larry the Lamb

    ‘the only bile on this blog is yours’ – as an illustration of complete lack of self- awareness even Murphy would struggle to top that!

  29. The Meissen Bison

    john77 – agree about the sportsmen but in my day there were also some who found places by dint of knowing or being known to the right people.

    For all of its past shortcomings (real or imagined) there was no question then of safe spaces, no-platforming speakers or taking an axe to Cecil Rhodes.

  30. No, Van.

    I’m insulting, yes, but bile is Ecks’s one and only trick.

    There’s definitely a difference.

  31. john77

    I’m surprised you’re not aware of constant cross-contamination of threads on this blog, and most often, organic deviation from the subject.

    So the fact Timothy quoted a bit about negotiations with other countries, it’s fairly natural to talk about Johnson, him being Foreign Secretary, an’ tha’.

  32. “I’m insulting, yes, but bile is Ecks’s one and only trick.

    There’s definitely a difference.”

    Do tell Larri–you don’t have to provide 150 million reasons but one or two should illustrate the depths of leftist delusion you harbour within.

  33. Arny old Iron

    And pray tell what other tricks do you have up your sleeve?

    I have seldom seen anything from you which isn’t at least partly an insult to the numerous excellent commenters on here and to the blogger himself, usually combined with a defense of Richard Murphy. Possibly you might count your often quite esoteric, but always ultimately flat attempts at humour or ‘in jokes’ but as they are usually meant as an insult I fail to see what your contention is, in terms of ‘offering something different’.

    To observe, however; Mr. Ecks offers passionate and often quite astute denunciations of the Radical Left and people like Murphy, albeit his language is at times more akin ‘fire and brimstone’ than others might offer. You serve up a mixture of stupidity, bad insults, crass attempts at humour and stale dogma which history has utterly discredited, usually written very badly. So in the technical sense you are right, of course – there is a difference between the two of you.

  34. @ Lawrence
    I *do* notice the occasional “sorry, wrong thread” in the comments; it may be natural to talk about Johnson (although irrelevant ‘cos it’s David Davies doing the Brexit negotiations) *but* there had been no mention of Johnson before you stated that “All criticism of Johnson is valid.” So your defence of that action does not stand up to one second’s scrutiny.

  35. @ TMB
    I have no doubt that you are correct – it’s just that I never met any of them while knowing a handful who were wrongly accused of only being there because … (including myself who got into my father’s college while my more intelligent sister didn’t get into our mother’s whose Fellows would not have recognised the name – it helped me in the interview that the most senior Fellows remembered my father, but as I had already been awarded a place on the basis of the blind-marked paper in the Part 1 exam that made no difference).

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