So Jessica wants censorship now?

Re Fox News:

There was the time, for example, that Fox contributor Erik Erickson said that men should be “dominant” over women in families. Or when an all-male panel bemoaned the rise of female breadwinners in the United States. Or when a host wondered if there was something about the female brain that was a “deterrent” to being a business executive. Or, my personal favorite, when Andrea Tantaros suggested that a female high school teacher who sexually abused a student did so because of … feminism.

You may not like these ideas Ms. Valenti but you should be defending to the death the right of people to think them, say them and broadcast them. Because it is only that freedom which leads to your being able to state whatever passes over your synapses.

There are, after all, plenty of societies, both historical and current, which do not have free speech. And which would jail you or worse for what you state as being your beliefs.

So long as the network is a mouthpiece for the right, it will continue to reflect outdated notions about women’s roles.

Hmm.

The entire conservative movement is built on a foundation that assumes traditional gender roles are best, that women belong in the home and that it is natural for men to be sexually aggressive. That is not a problem that begins or ends with one man; it’s a problem with an entire vision of politics and society.

And you get to disagree with it but you don’t get to ban it.

31 thoughts on “So Jessica wants censorship now?”

  1. Bloke in North Dorset

    I can’t face reading the article, I presume she’s describing Afghanistan or similar and nut UK or USA?

  2. One of life’s great mysteries: why does Tim bother reading anything by Valenti. Actually, why does anyone? If she sometimes said something sensible somewhere, there’d be a case … but no!

  3. BiND: Well, can you imagine her ever saying ‘There was the time, for example, that local mosque imam Sheikitallabout said that men should be “dominant” over women in families’..?

  4. “Carlson alleges, among other things, that Ailes told her, “You and I should have had a sexual relationship a long time ago, and then you’d be good and better and I’d be good and better”

    In the workplace that is inappropriate; it is not, however, harassment. Neither could it remotely be described as sexist.

  5. Is the cost of free speech no more columns like that one?

    If it is, I’m going to have to sit down and have a think about it. Singapore seems to get along ok…

  6. This would be the same conservative movement that has delivered both of the UK’s female PMs to date?

  7. @BiG:
    I raised this point with my lefty sisters a couple of weeks ago- apparently May and Thatcher are “the wrong sort” of woman.

    I also (last night) pointed out that the on the 17th July: white, male, middle class Labour Leadership candidate Owen Smith vows to tackle inequality.
    19th July: Smith knocks gay, northern, female Angela Eagle out of leadership contest.

  8. Tim

    I would have thought censorship is very much the thin end of the wedge for opinions she defines as ‘hateful’ – fines, loss of employment and social ostracisation would be the start, obviously ending with Gulags, exile and eventually I miagine death from starvation or execution as the inevitable conclusion of ‘The Curajus state”s struggle to ensure people are ‘re-educated’…..

  9. “One of life’s great mysteries: why does Tim bother reading anything by Valenti. ”

    Essentially, because if idiots like Valenti aren’t mocked and their arguments regularly shredded, their idiocy becomes the apparent consensus.

  10. If someone is an idiot, letting them speak their mind lets you know they are an idiot.

    At least then you are informed.

    That said, I’d still get rid of the BBC tax and stop putting public sector job adverts in the Guardian. I support their right to talk crap, but no-one should be forced to fund it.

  11. Valenti has no issue with dominance or power – she just thinks the wrong people have it. She wants it, for people like her, and believe me the abuses they would perpetrate would make the current “conservative dominated culture” (lol) look like a doting uncle.

  12. The Guardian already practises overt censorship. I made this comment on a Guardian article and a Mod removed it:

    “We keep being told in the comments here that the Nice attack was nothing to do with Islam.

    Call me thick, but the perp was heard to be shouting Allahu Akhbar, which you may not know is Arabic for God is great, a phrase uttered by members of the Islamic faith.”

    Does anyone here think there is anything wrong or offensive about this. Surely it is just a statement of fact not hate speech?

  13. BF

    Noone here thinks it is hate speech certainly (I think Arnald must be working a double shift or have had his access rescinded) – the issue is that the likes of Jessica Valenti certainly do think it is, and they have the nap hand, as it were, sadly, all too frequently.

  14. Or when a host wondered if there was something about the female brain that was a “deterrent” to being a business executive.

    My wife happens to subscribe to this view. But then, she thinks feminists are deluded idiots.

  15. Henry Crun

    Indeed.

    From the first Breitbart link above:

    Facebook examined activity posted within the group and could find no problems with it. Unhappy with the fact that Facebook would take no further action, anonymous users turned to a police station in Lübeck. There, officers traced the internet activity to a computer in Vierkirchen in the Dachau district of Bavaria.

    The offending Facebook page’s founding statement was read out in the courtroom. Written by Peter M. it read: “The war and economic refugees are flooding our country. They bring terror, fear, sorrow. They rape our women and put our children at risk. Bring an end to it!”.

    Scolding the pair, Judge Neubeck said: “The description of the group is a series of generalisations with a clear right-wing background.”

    The Judge sentenced Peter M. to serve a nine month suspended prison sentence, on probation. Melanie was ordered to pay a fine of €1,200.

    “I hope you are clear on the seriousness of the situation. If you sit again in front of me on the dock, you will go to jail,” Judge Neubeck warned.

    I wouldn’t assume Facebook would be deemed to be hosted in Germany for that purpose.

    This site for example is hosted in the US, hence I’m guessing it’s protected by the US Constitution with regard to free speech / its content; and which presumably includes those contributing to it, wherever they are based?

    I’ve no idea how this all legally works across borders? For example, if the same Peter M from Bavaria (or BiG for example) was to post onto (or to manage) a US hosted site, would the same rules apply to them as they did to Facebook above?

    Could Germany apply its rules EU wide, and apply the EAW, to those from other EU countries, in relation to a site hosted elsewhere.

    I guess the point I’m making is – could a bizarre and censorious precedent, such as set by that judge in Germany, in theory have ramifications beyond its borders?

  16. ‘So long as the network is a mouthpiece for the right, it will continue to reflect outdated notions about women’s roles.’

    Ahhh, yes, ‘the right.’ “Why do we tolerate them,” she asks.

    Guess how much time she spends watching Fox News.

    Double ought zero. She is spouting orthodoxy, not fact. False characterization of Fox News is de rigueur for the lefttards.

    BTW . . . Tantaros has disappeared! I loved watching her breath.

  17. Yes. All such rules depend upon where something is read, not where hosted.

    Yahoo must block entirely legal sales of Nazi memorabilia from the US into Germany. No one in Germany must be able to read them.

    English libel law applies to something that is read in England, wherever hosted.

    It is illegal to down load Wolfenstein 3D in Germany. I know, I’ve tried.

  18. Tim,

    That’s interesting. Where is any crime actually committed and by whom?

    For example, you state:

    Yahoo must block entirely legal sales of Nazi memorabilia from the US into Germany. No one in Germany must be able to read them.

    Technically, does that put a legal onus on (say) a site hosted in the US to put a block in place, that would stop a bloke in Germany from reading a comment that might be marginally disparaging about the more peaceful of our recent imports. Such comment being normal most places, but no longer acceptable to the Judge Neubecks or Snowflakes of this world?

    And what about Saudi / others – possibly even more restrictive? ie, not talking about libel, simply complying with fascist type censorship.

    In the example above, it wasn’t Facebook found guilty, it was just the administrator that had set the group up on Facebook?

  19. Ah, the mind of Jessica Valenti… A woman whose whole philosophy of life boils down the these three sentences:

    “By me a pony, Daddy. Brittney got a pony. Why can’t I have a pony, Daddy?”

  20. The americans just tell foreigners to fuck off over things like this. But yes, it’s up to you, as the publisher, to make sure that people cannot see what they’re not supposed to see in other countries.

  21. There, officers traced the internet activity to a computer in Vierkirchen in the Dachau district of Bavaria.

    It’s almost as if the Germans have no sense of irony whatsoever.

  22. Is the cost of free speech no more columns like that one? If it is, I’m going to have to sit down and have a think about it. Singapore seems to get along ok…

    As someone who has lived in Singapore and put up with the mindless tedium of the The Straits Times, let me assure you that it is not. It’s only value being for wiping up dog shit.

  23. Tim,

    Got it. A benefit of hosting in a country with the biggest guns (at least whilst they still take that view).

    Though I wonder where the server was that hosted the “group” page that the Bavarian culprits set up…

  24. PF, Saudi doesn’t need to worry about laws – just have state control of all international telecoms ports and a Commission for the Preservation of Virtue and Prevention of Vice (AKA the muttawah, which oddly made me think of Ritchie).

    And they’re amazingly thorough: I once bought a camera lens filter in Riyadh which had a little booklet in the box – all of which had been censored by blackening any flesh other than hands, faces and feet. So beach babe became burka babe in a photo about 3cm square!

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