A certain amusement here

Now, however, the first issue of substance is being raised and harsh reality has begun intrude. What contribution should Britain make, once it leaves, to the EU’s pension obligations – which total an astonishing euros 60 billion? Battle lines are already being drawn: Will a one-off lump sum suffice? Or will the EU demand ongoing British contributions, along the lines made to League of Nations staff after that organisation was wound up? The acrimony is evident and is doubtless only a taster of what is to come.

That’s a hell of an amount:

Euros 60 billion is a vast sum, yet covers the pensions of just 22,000 officials – a pot of euros 2.72 million each.

Well over the amount at which you start paying punitive tax rates here. How odd and unexpected that bureaucrats who don’t have to raise the money for their pensions gain decent pensions, eh?

17 thoughts on “A certain amusement here”

  1. Obviously you don’t hand over a lump sum; you need to keep up your sleeve the possibility of ratting on whatever future annual payments you’ve agreed to.

  2. Bloke in North Dorset

    We’ve paid in towards those pensions up to the point we leave*, at which point the Brits and EU have a choice about whether or not they continue to work there, whichever choice is made it isn’t an of our business.

    *There is a pot there, isn’t there? Or is this yet another case of bureaucrats making wavy arms promises about future commitments without giving a damn how they will be met?

  3. Well the EU made the premises. If it failed to provide any means of fulfilling them that’s their fault. Not our problem.

  4. That’s 4000 per remain voter. So set up a fund and allow anyone to pay their fair 4k into it, if they want to. Then hand over whatever is raised. And nothing else, except a new total support % based on this, which might just be less than 48%.

  5. Last night someone was telling me that the £350m per week was just a packet of crisps per day per head, so I told her about the unfunded pension claim, which meant that the £350m was understated.
    The UKIPgraph has got it Grauniad-style wrong. The pension deficit covers all officials, not just the 22,000 who have already retired. The cost of an average EU pension must be less than €1m

  6. Governments shouldn’t be allowed to run unfunded pension schemes (no pot). It places a burden on future government and is completely unrepresented in the finances of the state. You think our deficit is bad at the moment, consider what it looks like when the unfunded state pensions have been added.

    There was an article I saw in 2012 (http://www.if.org.uk/archives/2031/ons-reveals-full-uk-pension-liabilities) that said the unfunded government employee pensions were an effective liability of £0.9 trillion, and the state pension is another £3.8 trillion on top of that.

  7. OTOH, if the funding of pensions is the EU’s top priority, we have a bargaining chip for more important stuff.

  8. Ooh, that’s an easy one.

    A lump sum of £0.00 should cover it.

    Haven’t we heard repeatedly that an EU pension required its beneficiary to continue working on the EU’s behalf after leaving employment, pushing its propaganda and taking every opportunity to support its goals? On pain of having the pension withdrawn?

    If this is right, EU pensioners are paid agents of a potentially hostile foreign power. We pay them generously to work against us. That should stop.

  9. Simple – the UK agrees to take over all the UK citizens who are currently drawing an EU pension, and will fund them itself. All UK citizens currently working for the EU will be leaving so no need to worry about their pensions. Then apply UK pension rules to the pension ‘pots’ of those its taken control of.

    Result, Lord Mandelson gets a massive pension cut. Hurrah!

  10. Anyone in receipt of–or due to get – an EU pension should be given a simple choice.

    Keep the pension or keep your UK citizenship and not be expelled permanently from the UK.

    Our contribution–as Arthur Teacake so rightly says–should be a cheque for £0.00.

    Sent on one of those giant six-foot charity cheques.

  11. Am I correct name saying that EU employees pay no national income taxes? Yet the EU wants nations who have left to keep on funding their pensions?

    Get some Remainers on to argue for that. Come on, lads.

  12. I was about to start ranting about employee’s contributions and pension pots and stuff, but replies here have clarified that THERE IS NO PENSION POT! WT bloody F??? Not even my UK local government pension is potless. If I’d opted into it I and my council employer would have paid money into a pot that is drawn on to pay my pension. (My exwife is still in the scheme and her pension statement clearly makes clear it is a funded pot system). If a poxy socialist-run local council can manage to get its pension system right, how the bloody FFFF can a supra-national pseodo-government not manage it?

  13. “Not even my UK local government pension is potless.”

    Rather a bad example: the local govt schemes are the only large public pension schemes that are funded.

    Civil service? nope. NHS? nope. Teachers? nope. ……….

  14. @Andrew M: doesn’t matter really, once the UK has control of the pensions we can do what we like to them, we didn’t make the promises, the EU did and we’re not in the EU anymore. So if necessary we can legislate for a special rule that says anyone in receipt of an EU pension must live in Hull to qualify (as a nod to Lord M) if we like.

  15. John77 is right, as the Mail article quoted by UKIP in the link provided shows: 22 000 is only the number of current pensioners, not the number that will eventually get a pension. EU figures show there are another 33 000 staff working for the EU – see http://ec.europa.eu/civil_service/docs/hr_key_figures_2016.pdf. So the average cost of an EU pension is far lower than the 2.7 million euros quoted – just over a million on these figures.

    Moreover, only 1 164 current EU employees are British. The bill for these pensions will be a drop in the ocean – counting the current pensioners as well, maybe 2 billion pounds, spread out over the next 50 or 60 years.

    These pensions were a condition of employment, and required a substantial personal contribution by the employees (11.6% of salary, recently reduced to 10.6%). So obviously the pensions need to be and will be paid, either by the UK or by the EU with UK money. Just because the EU was crap and the UK left doesn’t mean it should break what amount to contracts with individuals to provide them with retirement income.

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