Cat, meet pigeons

Austria could be set to force refugees to do menial work for 87p an hour – or risk losing state handouts from the government.
Foreign minister Sebastian Kurz said many asylum seekers were ‘illiterate’ and should be made to carry out mandatory community jobs to help integrate them into society.
They would be required to work between 15 and 30 hours a week for just one euro an hour on work like street cleaning and municipal gardening, Kurz said.

I’m pretty sure that an asylum seeker cannot be forced to work. They have an absolute right to a minimum standard of care as they seek that asylum. But of course there’s nothing at all to stop people offering a little more in return for some labour.

70 thoughts on “Cat, meet pigeons”

  1. But is there a distinction to be made between “refugee” and “asylum seeker”? Much reporting of the issues seems to assume that every migrant is an individual with a well-founded fear of persecution. The Austrian authorities may well be applying the appropriate level of discrimination when implementing this proposal.

  2. A large part of the problem is that the expectations of both sides are very far apart. The migrants have no idea of what is required to succeed in Western society, their societies are generally based on kinship networks and handouts (and backbreaking work when the handouts are not there). Westerners assume that these people want to work and integrate. If you come from a society where the norm is corruption and handouts from the “boss”, the idea of doing grunt work and expending effort on getting somewhere is minimal. Some of the migrants get it, but most do not.

    The migrants are not quite cargo culters, but they’re not far off.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_cult

  3. This explains the rioting by Somalis in Sweden when they demanded better accommodation etc. They simply assume that the state, as a proto-Big man, is responsible for giving stuff out. Some will leave this cycle of idiocy, but many will not, and will then become an underclass. Sociologically, their values are incompatible with western society.

  4. But is there a distinction to be made between “refugee” and “asylum seeker”?

    In the English language, yes. A refugee is somebody seeking refuse, an asylume seeker is somebody seeking asylum.

    Refuge is a temporary stopping point where you wait until your destination is safe. viz, pedestrian refuge in the middle of a road, breakdown refuges along motorways, earthquake refugees, flood refugees, war refugees.

    Asylum is a permanant stopping point because the place you came from is too dangerous to return to.

    However, people with no understanding plus people who want to deliberately muddy the waters confuse and mix up the two terms and make them out to be interchangeable and identical.

    See the outrage recently when the Dali Lama said along the lines of “we should help refugees to return home”. Well, yes of course we should, that’s the bloody definition of refugee, somebody who needs temporary help until they can go home again, and basic humantity would expect you to help them go home.

  5. It’s another of the constant jarring contradictions of Progressivism – we are an advanced service-based economy which has to send half of our children to university, but we must also import hundreds of thousands of illiterate peasants because, well, er.

  6. I’m all for providing safe haven to those who are persecuted.

    But if you then start letting in the persecutors too, it kind of defeats the point…

    The difficulty is sorting out the sheep from the goats.

  7. “Foreign minister Sebastian Kurz said many asylum seekers were ‘illiterate’…”

    That can’t be! The ‘Guardian’ is always telling us they are all doctors, lawyers and architects….

  8. A roof overhead, enough to eat, safe water, a set of clothes, that should be it. Ciggies, smartphones, expensive trainers, ethnic food, transport they can pay for themselves w some hard earned like the rest of us, to assist their integration.

  9. The Inimitable Steve

    What Ken said. “Migrants” suffer from magical thinking. They really do think the white man has unlimited free money to give them. Of course, the Quisling European Left agrees with them.

    I hate to be a downer, but I’d go further. They’re not just culturally inimical to the West. They’re biologically incompatible.

    We simply can’t put up hordes of near-retarded immigrants and their many stupid offspring. There’s nothing productive for them to do in our post-industrial economies and we can’t afford to keep them as welfare pets.

    We can’t create enough jobs that pay enough to live on without taxpayer assistance for our own morons, never mind the billions of mouthbreathing feral humans who want to come here.

    Somalis don’t magically become Swedes or Americans or Englishmen when they colonise parts of those countries. They recreate Somalia wherever they go. It is intolerable for us to live in Somalian or Syrian style conditions, so something’s got to give.

  10. ‘I’m pretty sure that an asylum seeker cannot be forced to work. They have an absolute right to a minimum standard of care as they seek that asylum.’

    This would seem to me to be a matter of changing the law. It may be that Austria cannot change the law, if it is imposed on it by the EU or the ECHR.

    In which case Austrians have a choice.

  11. I suspect ISIS fighters could qualify as persecuted if they lose their war. Should we be opening out doors to them?

  12. There’s a distinction to be made between economic migrants and asylum seekers. Economic migrants we need, because we don’t produce enough doctors, nurses, plumbers, etc of our own. Asylum seekers we accept out of humanity, and sometimes because we’re partly responsible for the wars they’re fleeing.

    “…near-retarded immigrants and their many stupid offspring…”

    The average IQ in Somalia is about the same as the average IQ here in 1900 (on the current scale). Plausibly, the average IQ of asylum seekers will be somewhat higher. It’s reasonable to suppose that the children and grandchildren of asylum seekers will respond to the Western environment in much the same way as successive generations of natives have since 1900.

    …[list of goods] they can pay for themselves w some hard earned like the rest of us…

    Then let’s allow asylum seekers to get a job.

  13. @BenS
    “The difficulty is sorting out the sheep from the goats.”

    It’s actually remarkably easy to differentiate between sheep & goats.
    Sheep will be standing quietly in the field you put them, munching grass. Goats will have penetrated impenetrable barbed wire fences & be scoffing your crops. Or, possibly, your laundry.,

    There’s a lesson, somewhere in this.

  14. There’s an embryonic Jungle growing in Como, N Italy.
    Because the Swiss won’t provide a humanitarian corridor (wassat? Sealed trains? Cattle trucks?) to let them get to Germany.

  15. ‘There’s a distinction to be made between economic migrants and asylum seekers. Economic migrants we need, because we don’t produce enough doctors, nurses, plumbers, etc of our own. Asylum seekers we accept out of humanity, and sometimes because we’re partly responsible for the wars they’re fleeing.’

    We wouldn’t ‘need’ economic migrants if we hadn’t allowed people like you to ruin the country with welfare, and the education system with comprehensive schools teaching kids gibberish and allowing them to get away with fucking around all their lives. The trick is to disregard people like you and incentivise our own people to do these jobs, and explain to kids that if they want to fuck around all day that’s fine but that they’ll have to do it somewhere else other than school, and that in their later lives they’re going to go very hungry.

    There is a limit to the number of people we can invite in to sit around all day (or even to work) based merely on what people like you regard as being ‘humane’. It would be quite possible to make a plausible case for four or five billion people to be able to come here on the basis of ‘humanity’. Not possible, sadly.

  16. ‘There’s an embryonic Jungle growing in Como, N Italy.’

    I love that – I hope George Clooney’s holiday home plummets in price. Only when people like him suffer like the little people have to suffer will things change.

    It’s a lot like Mark Zuckerberg and his giant fences, or Barack Obama and his many armed guards.

  17. Austria should buy a little patch of land from Belarus, and move the invaders there. It’ll be Austrian sovereign territory, so that’ll be OK. Whether they name it Rockall or St Kilda is up to them.

  18. The Inimitable Steve

    SJW –
    The average IQ in Somalia is about the same as the average IQ here in 1900 (on the current scale).

    Nah. I don’t think the average IQ here was 68 in 1900. Would’ve been pretty hard for us to be the preeminent industrial, scientific and imperial power in the world were that the case.

    Plausibly, the average IQ of asylum seekers will be somewhat higher.

    Lol. No.

    It’s reasonable to suppose that the children and grandchildren of asylum seekers will respond to the Western environment in much the same way as successive generations of natives have since 1900.

    So that’s… what? Only three generations of antisocial tribalism, aggressive Muslimism and welfare parasitism we have to put up with before they (maybe) magically become Westerners?

    What a bargain! What’s in it for us though? Keep the rape crisis centres in work?

  19. @SJW

    “It’s reasonable to suppose that the children and grandchildren of asylum seekers will respond to the Western environment in much the same way as successive generations of natives have since 1900.”

    Ah, ‘magic dirt’ theory raises its head.

  20. The Inimitable Steve

    Magic Dirt Theory is like Global Warming.

    Even generations after the dirt proves itself not to be magic, and decades after the globe stops evincing any warming, true believers just lie a lot and pretend evidence to the contrary doesn’t exist.

    It’s not as if we have no experience of immigration and the harm it does, is it? Just go to Rotherham.

  21. Asylum seekers we accept out of humanity, and sometimes because we’re partly responsible for the wars they’re fleeing.

    I’m not entirely sure how that applies to Austrians, though.

  22. “Economic migrants we need, because we don’t produce enough doctors, nurses, plumbers, etc of our own.”

    Ah. Let their countries spend vast sums educating them to be doctors and then nick them. Funny how lots of completely trivial things these days are “cultural appropriation” but looting another country’s elite human capital isn’t.

  23. There must be a reason why the black areas of the USA, and the black areas of every single part of the world, including the black countries which suffered slavery and those which didn’t really, are almost without exception shitholes. What it is I am not sure. Has SJW any ideas?

    One thing is clear. Black Americans have proved that they can do extremely well – there’s a (part) black President, there have been black Attorneys General, Secretaries of State, judges and lawyers, generals, police chiefs, mayors, business tycoons, professors (inc proper ones), and countless legitimate stars in acting, music, sport etc.

    However, they do seem increasingly to be outliers. If Condi Rice can get to SecState, it cannot be that there is any inherent and racist bar to Shanavious X achieving the same.

    The theory I like best (in the US context, probably applies to other western countries too) is that by far the major issue is the collapse of the black family, egged on by the SJWs of the Democratic Party. They replaced black fathers with State wonga and the results are clear. Introducing millions more welfare seekers purely on the basis that we have welfare and should give it to them seems borderline suicidal.

  24. The Inimitable Steve

    RA – yes, I agree it seems low. And no doubt there are some biases. IQ is a useful but imperfect measurement.

    And one of those biases is our difficulty – as reasonably intelligent, somewhat educated, descendants of the survivors of the ruthless post-Ice Age North European Darwinian cull of the stupid, the lazy and the dyscivic – in appreciating just how different other human population groups are.

    It’s not just intelligence, though that’s a huge problem in itself, and we tend to fail to empathise with the immense difficulties people with room temperature IQ’s have in learning any sort of valuable skill. It’s also about ingrained behaviour patterns and survival strategy.

    See: the fable of the grasshopper and the ant. We’re the ants, and the world is full of grasshoppers. Our ancestors learned to plan for the future, carefully husband their scarce resources, relentlessly improve the land and cooperate with their neighbours – or die.

    African survival strategies are based around fecundity and grabbing what you can while it’s there to be grabbed. There’s not only no reason to believe that will change when they arrive on magical Western soil – we have generations of observational data to prove it doesn’t change.

    The Americans abolished slavery 150 years ago and have spent trillions of dollars over the last 50 years on a quest for racial equality. It has cost them more than the Apollo missions and the Manhattan Project combined.

    All they have to show for it are slums and burning cities.

  25. There’s something to be said about the progressive Victorian idea of creating “brown Englishmen”, and it did happen for quite a long time. People coming to the UK for decades, centuries, would come here, keep their head down, work hard, go to their own choice of sky-fairy temple at the weekend, and generally become just another Englishman.

    I’ve chatted with colleagues whose parents came here from India/etc in the 1950s and 1960s and they’d join their work mates in the pub, join in with the footy, be part of society. Something changed sometime in the last 20-30 years or so, where that stopped happening. We stopped getting brown Englishmen and started getting people coming here who /didn’t/ /want/ /to/ /be/ /here/. Who /didn’t/ want to be part of the society they were joining.

    My suspicion is that the grags crawled out of their caves “back home” and noticed their countryfolk leaving and making good lives for themselves and thought: we can’t be having that! We won’t have any power over them. We’ve got to follow them and stop them. And there does seem to have been a noticable upswing in the cave-dwellers coming over here and forcing their countryfolk back into the stone age.

  26. SJW

    Plausibly, the average IQ of asylum seekers will be somewhat higher. It’s reasonable to suppose that the children and grandchildren of asylum seekers will respond to the Western environment in much the same way as successive generations of natives have since 1900.

    That’s the Best Case Fallacy, which unscrupulous optimists like yourself often use to justify your social policy innovations. You never seem to ask yourselves: what could possibly go wrong here, and is it worth the risk?

  27. @jgh

    ‘Something changed sometime in the last 20-30 years or so, where that stopped happening.’

    I place it at the time they decided Sikhs could ride motorbikes without wearing crash helmets. This was around the time that ‘racism’ became the worst thing the world has ever seen (I don’t like it, but.). If you tell non white Brits that the Union Jack is a symbol of oppression, and that white Europeans and their culture are the root of all evil, and that the British Empire was horrific (instead of the least unpleasant empire ever, and possibly the greatest civilising influence the world has ever seen), and you prioritise the desires and customs of incomers above those of the host population then this is what you will get.

    TheBBC, the arts, the stand-up comics, and now the police – all conspired in this. I think the stand-ups are possibly the single biggest issue, odd as it may sound. Not sure what you do about them, except don’t go and see them or their shows/films.

  28. jgh

    Something changed sometime in the last 20-30 years or so, where that stopped happening. We stopped getting brown Englishmen…

    I think the reason for this is simply numbers. Once there is a substantial immigrant community of a particular type, there is less and less incentive to integrate into the host culture.

  29. The Inimitable Steve

    Theo – Yarp. Numbers, cheap flights, cheap phone calls, satellite and internet TV, constant inflows of new people from the old country.

    Moving to a new country used to mean severing day-to-day contact with the old, which forced you to adapt or leave. Not anymore.

  30. It’s not just intelligence, though that’s a huge problem in itself, and we tend to fail to empathise with the immense difficulties people with room temperature IQ’s have in learning any sort of valuable skill. It’s also about ingrained behaviour patterns and survival strategy.

    This.

    As somebody once said on here, people think the developing world is like the developed world only poorer. It isn’t: the disparity in basic competence is incredible. I tried to figure this out in Nigeria, trying to work out why individuals from some populations are utterly incapable of carrying out a simple, everyday task without fucking it up. It’s not to do with intelligence per se, but the western IQ system certainly measures the ability to carry out tasks which other people might find useful or productive. It might be something to do with incentives, but the lengths one had to go to in ensuring a Nigerian didn’t fuck up the simplest of tasks was extraordinary.

  31. TN: agreed. Maybe the legacy of tribalism where anything done well by the individual is communalised, eg improvements to land, the incentive for not wanting to do anything well.

  32. Nah. I don’t think the average IQ here was 68 in 1900. Would’ve been pretty hard for us to be the preeminent industrial, scientific and imperial power in the world were that the case.

    You should read James Flynn:

    “In 1900, the average IQ scored against current norms was somewhere between 50 and 70. If IQ gains are in any sense real, we are driven to the absurd conclusion that a majority of our ancestors were mentally retarded.”

    and

    “Our ancestors in 1900 were not mentally retarded. Their intelligence was anchored in everyday reality. We differ from them in that we can use abstractions and logic and the hypothetical to attack the formal problems that arise when science liberates thought from concrete referents. Since 1950, we have become more ingenious in going beyond previously learned rules to solve problems on the spot.”

    Interesting to see SJW placing such faith in IQ scores…
    IQ tests do a good job of measuring IQ test performance. The objection is that people with an axe to grind like to represent them as meaning more than they do.

  33. @TIS

    “..as reasonably intelligent, somewhat educated, descendants of the survivors of the ruthless post-Ice Age North European Darwinian cull of the stupid, the lazy and the dyscivic …”

    Don’t forget interbreeding with Neanderthals.

  34. @SJW

    ‘IQ tests do a good job of measuring IQ test performance. The objection is that people with an axe to grind like to represent them as meaning more than they do.’

    Ha – I can hear your own axe being ground from here. If all IQ tests do is measure IQ test performance, why on earth did you say this:

    ‘The average IQ in Somalia is about the same as the average IQ here in 1900… It’s reasonable to suppose that the children and grandchildren of asylum seekers will respond to the Western environment in much the same way as successive generations of natives have since 1900.’

    You are cutting the cake that you are having and eating with that axe.

    Either ‘IQ tests [merely, or mostly] do a good job of measuring IQ test performance’ – in which case let’s all celebrate the unimportant possibility that future generations of Somali-origin Britons will perform better on IQ tests than their forefathers.

    Or there are other, external implications to their performance on these IQ tests that mean they will (or may) do better in society generally.

    Which is it?

  35. I wonder if SJW has ever spent much time in truly foreign countries – backwaters in Africa and the Middle East, say – and, if he has, how he managed not to see the fucking obvious. It must take some doing.

  36. TIS

    “It might be something to do with incentives, but the lengths one had to go to in ensuring a Nigerian didn’t fuck up the simplest of tasks was extraordinary.”

    I remember an ex-colleague telling me that when they lived in Rhodesia, the only way to get any competent work done by their black workers was to threaten to, or actually beat them. As if that was not a bad enough story, he said they used to clean the workers’ huts with DDT, sometimes with people in them, which I found a little hard to believe.

  37. IQ tests measure a sort of abstract reasoning capability. Among people brought up in similar environments, that tells you something about innate capacity. Comparing the average person brought up in 19th and 21st century England, it tells you that the environments were very different.

  38. As if that was not a bad enough story, he said they used to clean the workers’ huts with DDT, sometimes with people in them, which I found a little hard to believe.

    That’s how DDT was used in malaria prevention. You treat the inside of the hut with DDT and when the mosquito comes in and lands on a treated surface, it drops dead.

  39. SJW strikes me as one of those keyboard warriors that never ventures further than the end of his own street let alone visit or work in the Third World.

  40. @ SJW
    I do not believe the average IQ of any country is 68 on any IQ scale in use. Those who are illiterate may fail a written IQ test. That does not prove that they are stupid, just shows that illiterate people cannot answer written questions.
    Most IQ tests implicitly assume a certain level of background knowledge and the better ones try to avoid this distorting the results by tailoring the test to the group being tested. So an American IQ test will not give reliable results if used in England and vice versa. A 21st century IQ test would not be much good in measuring the intelligence of 19th century Britons, nor would a 19th IQ test, if there had been one, be a reliable way of testing the intelligence of 21st century Britons.
    On some IQ scales anyone who can tie their own shoelaces has an IQ above 68: on the WISC scale someone with an IQ of 68 is in the bottom 2%. I have no idea who James Flynn is – and your quote creates no desire in me to find out – nor what IQ scale he used, but since 1950, IQ tests have become a standard tool for “measuring intelligence” so people have practised taking them with a significant impact on the average score.

  41. I remember an ex-colleague telling me that when they lived in Rhodesia, the only way to get any competent work done by their black workers was to threaten to, or actually beat them.

    That might not be to do with competence, though…even when done willingly, they tend to make a right hash of things. What your ex-colleague might have been referring to is what I wrote about here and is probably one of the most depressing discoveries I’ve ever made:

    But my driver is already giving me trouble. You end up in a bit of a no-win situation here. You have to hire them privately, and there are many available but few decent ones. There is a market rate per month which is well known. If you pay them at the low end, they will be rubbish. If you pay them at the top end, they think you’re a soft touch and take the piss. I decided to pay the top end – which is about 25% more than the low end – and pay on-the-spot bonuses for any extra hours. I was told that what I was paying should be more than enough for my driver to be pretty damned happy with what he was getting and not complain. I bunged him the equivalent of 3 days pay for helping me collect the car from the garage, and even though he only started work on the 9th I said I’d consider his employment as having started from the 1st, meaning he would get 8 days’ pay for nothing. I also said I’d pay him his December salary before Christmas. Having worked for a week, he asked for Saturday off (he is paid to work Saturdays, but not Sundays). He didn’t offer to work the Sunday instead, he seemed to be asking for a paid holiday. I wasn’t going anywhere on Saturday, so I said he could do what he wanted, but I needed him for a few hours after work on Friday. On the Friday, he drove about 3km and sat for an additional few hours in the car, for which I paid him a bonus equal to about a third of his day-rate, an amount everybody I’d consulted with said was about right. Immediately he started complaining that it wasn’t enough.

    Which pissed me right off, because he’d obviously taken me for a mug, which unfortunately is common amongst people in lots of places when they meet somebody who doesn’t act like a complete arsehole. I’ve seen it in the Middle East, Thailand, and in some scenarios in Russia, where acting with the slightest generosity, kindness, or compassion is seen as a weakness to be ruthlessly exploited at the very first opportunity. By showing this man I would treat him reasonably well in comparison to others, all I did was invite contempt. Had I whacked the bastard with a stick and made him crawl around on the floor for a while, as the Nigerians do with their drivers, he’d probably not have made a peep. One of the reasons I was keen to get out of the Middle East was because the place forces you to act like a twat just to avoid everyone you deal with on a daily basis taking the piss. Contrary to what some people might say, I’m not an arsehole by nature and generally believe in doing someone a good turn. Having to be a ruthless bastard goes against my nature, and having to haggle, hand out tips which then get sneered at, and argue money on a daily basis goes against the nature of most Brits, me included. But sadly, I’m finding already I’m having to resort to being a ruthless bastard in my daily life in Nigeria, and I was pretty much one of those when I dealt with the situation with my driver. Stupidly, he thought he’d try arguing the point with me, obviously judging there would be some mileage in doing so. Had he just shut up and done his job for a while, he’d have found me a lot more forgiving. He’s still in my employ, just. But I doubt he’ll be with me long, and frankly I couldn’t care less what happens to him afterwards. Such is life in Nigeria. But I’m going to have to work pretty damned hard at knowing when to be an arsehole and when to stop being one. This is stuff they don’t tell you in the interview.

  42. The most heartening thing about the IQ table is that the UK is above France and Germany. Given that ranking, I can even stand that we are below the Eyeties.

    I do find it hard to believe that Mongolia is above us though? It’s just people tending yaks and living in huts on vast grassy steppes isn’t it?

  43. @SJW – john77 covers my reply.

    @TN

    Travelling in a wagon in the ME, unable to see out of the rear view because the locals in the back were in the way, a chap I know gestured crossly through the window to the guys to sit the fuck down.
    They misinterpreted his gesture and jumped out of the wagon. At 30mph.
    He is a guy whose orders you would tend to follow, but even he thought this surprising.
    This is the kind of stuff people who’ve never been to these places, or have only been as tourists, simply do not understand.

  44. I do find it hard to believe that Mongolia is above us though? It’s just people tending yaks and living in huts on vast grassy steppes isn’t it?

    Yes, but they are not exposed to the daily output of the Guardian and BBC, which serves to lower our collective IQs by a few points.

  45. I do not believe the average IQ of any country is 68 on any IQ scale in use.
    That’s fine with me; the number was quoted by TIS. The usual source for such data is a book IQ and the Wealth of Nations which does indeed use dubious statistical methods.

    My point is that IQ tests measure a sort of abstract reasoning capability which has got nothing at all with the ability to tie one’s shoelaces, and a lot to do with the sort of society one has been brought up in.

  46. Bloke in North Dorset

    “The average IQ in Somalia is about the same as the average IQ here in 1900 (on the current scale). Plausibly, the average IQ of asylum seekers will be somewhat higher. It’s reasonable to suppose that the children and grandchildren of asylum seekers will respond to the Western environment in much the same way as successive generations of natives have since 1900.”

    Well it doesn’t seem to have happened in Bradford and other cities where we are well in to the 3rd generation and we seem to have done is import their internecine warfare:

    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/faith/article4527003.ece

    Its getting so bad it drove my lefty cousins to move out after hanging on longer than my righty cousin.

  47. Flynn is the person for whom the Flynn effect is named:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flynn_effect

    The secular rise in IQ scores over time.

    The point being made by SJW is that people from foreign climes are not as acculturated to the IQ tests. If we take the IQ tests as a proxy for modern skill sets. this makes more sense. However, it should be noted that some explanations for IQ tests differences are more consonant with the argument made that there are racial or social differences.

    It is widely acknowledged in the social science literature that there is acculturation.

    This paper finds that the CEO’s cultural heritage can affect the performance of banks up to three generations after the CEO’s ancestors arrive in the US:

    https://www.newyorkfed.org/medialibrary/media/research/conference/2015/econ_culture/Papers_NguyenHagendorffEshraghi.pdf

    But we also find that the level of home country corruption affects actions in a host state and when there are no penalties, the offences get worse – rather than adjusting to the norms of the host:

    http://www.nber.org/papers/w12312

    While it is possible that migrants will change in three generations, it is also possible that they ghettoise and do not – instead bringing their unpleasant cultural practices – cousin marriage and FGM and vote rigging.

    Basically multiculturalism that encourages this type of stuff is bad.

  48. Isn’t the three generations rule being eroded by immigrants marrying people from their home country rather than second/third generation immigrants so the clock is being reset so to speak

  49. @ Social Justice Warrior
    That makes sense to me (but maybe not Mr Ecks).
    Having passed every IQ test to which I was submitted I have no problem with agreeing that they measure the ability to pass IQ tests.
    They have some use in predicting who will perform well in later life but not as much as claimed. 50-odd years ago my little sister and I latched onto Eysenck’s books and asked our parents why they didn’t do the tests – Dad replied that ICI had tried them out and he and four friends in ICI BIllingham (the largest chemical factory in Europe) had walked out half-way through the test getting scores of “some unknown number above 180”; Three of the four were obvious: I have never been sure who was the fourth.
    ICI then decided not to use IQ tests because they did not add enough data to university results to justify the cost.

  50. @ ukliberty
    Until they win their appeal.
    Do you want me to comment or would you find a twenty-page rant about the sinful treatment by Blair/Brown of innocent victims unhelpful?

  51. As long as the refugees do what you won’t/can’t do –
    that is breed
    – it doesn’t matter what you all think.
    You are moving to extinction.

  52. Bloke in Costa Rica

    If IQ tests are measuring, rather than raw intelligence, the sort of cognitive toolbox one needs to operate effectively in a Western society then they’re very valuable indeed, and importing millions of people two sigmas below the mean is fucking insane. You’re not going to get a lot of doctors and architects out of them if you have to acculturate them first.

  53. “we must also import hundreds of thousands of illiterate peasants because, well, er.”

    We’re not importing them to work. We’re importing them to vote for lefties. That’s why the left keep demanding ever-increasing immigration.

  54. @Interested

    “You don’t “pass” an IQ test.”

    No, but it is possible to fail an *intelligence* test. Look at Ritchie’s last post about neoliberalism, poverty and ‘the Washington Concensus’

  55. The great thing is it’s all so vibrant. Today comes the news that an ‘eight-year-old British boy Yuusuf Warsame’ (one of the Wiltshire Warsames I believe) has been killed in Gothenburg (where he was visiting the Swedish end of the family) after a hand grenade was thrown into his bedroom as part of an underworld feud involving members of a Somali crime gang.

    Don’t let anyone tell you this didn’t always go on – they’re just racist liars.

  56. “Don’t let anyone tell you this didn’t always go on – they’re just racist liars.”

    My whole childhood consisted of dodging bullets and grenade fragments. Anyone who says otherwise is, frankly, a neoliberal sophist. ( ‘course we did actually have the IRA setting off bombs occasionally).

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