Err, the police get to decide this?

Police forces across England and Wales are considering expanding their definition of hate crime to include misogyny after an experiment in one city that saw more than 20 investigations launched in two months.

I was sure that our system worked on a rather different basis. Don’t we have a legislature or summat that decides what s a crime?

33 thoughts on “Err, the police get to decide this?”

  1. The cops can do whatever their POS prick masters say they can do. Horseshit “hate” laws are on the books –the monkeysuits (and more importantly their CM CPS bosses) have been given leeway to strut it.

    A court case on the theme might take the wind out of their sails but who is going to pony up the cash on a chancer bet?

  2. Why are they making these “crimes” up? It wouldn’t be a matter of finding easy ones to improve their clear up rates by any chance?

  3. They love the hate bit.

    This is one of the few (perhaps the only) criminal laws which explicitly says that the crime – at least the hate bit – does not have to be proved.

    And I rather believe that a jury, hearing the hate bit, would be that much more inclined to convict.

  4. So, police increase the scope of what is considered a crime and then are shocked to find an increase in crime. Then use that increase as justification to push for a greater increase in scope of what is considered a crime.

    Why would they be ‘investigating’ misogyny if its not a crime? That seems like its ripe for a charge of ‘wasting police time’.

  5. So nice to see that managing expectations isn’t a thing anymore. That always goes well.

    Anyone want to take a punt how much of an increase in budget the police would need to police ‘hate’ to the extent that the easily-triggered are expecting them to?

  6. Its too bad you guys didn’t take the opportunity to get one of them there ‘written constitutions’ way back when.

    Granted, its been far from great for us but it certainly seems to have slowed the progress into tyranny from a sprint to a quick jog.

    Unfortunately, if you tried it now, you’d get things like the ‘right’ to housing, education, medical care, three meals a day, two weeks of vacation, a voucher good for a soapbar and couple pints every week.

  7. You should see how it works in China where for many minor crimes/disputes police are judge, jury and executioner.

    Damage some property or have a car accident? Police will detain both parties until they, some uneducated nong, decide who should pay who and how much on what they personally think based on how much each party was at fault, how wealthy each party is and how connected they are. It’s why when I got hit by an ebike tht was on the wrong side of the road I legged it.

  8. ‘The force defines misogyny hate crime as “incidents against women that are motivated by an attitude of a man towards a woman and includes behaviour targeted towards a woman by men simply because they are a woman”.’

    I’m betting (hoping?) there will be lots of stats to wave at reporters, and very few actual convictions on a definition as nebulous as that.

  9. B, foD is correct.

    The rozzers cannot yet and do not yet decide what is a crime for the purposes of a prosecution.

    What they can and do do, and have done for some time, is classify allegations of criminal misconduct by deemed type, which type may also be used by the CPS and the courts.

    Thus, an allegation of violence which fits the Establishment rubric for domestic violence will, for instance, probably give rise to a harsher sentence than the same act committed by one male friend on another.

  10. NeilsR: ‘‘The force defines misogyny hate crime as “incidents against women that are motivated by an attitude of a man towards a woman…’

    With a definition as loose as that, won’t they be arresting a lot of Muslim men..?

  11. The whole point is to ensure the whole population is guilty at all times, then the plods can haul you away at will.

  12. NielsR said: “I’m betting (hoping?) there will be lots of stats to wave at reporters, and very few actual convictions on a definition as nebulous as that.”

    And as per rape cases, this will be jumped on as evidence that the law isn’t strong enough.

  13. Fine, make misogyny a hate crime, but since we’re being gender neutral here we should also make misandry a hate crime as well.

    I think you’ll find it’s the feminazis with their “Kill all men” and “All men are rapists” who are in the majority.

    Better still, lets apply the ideal of freedom of speech and if it offends then so fucking what.

    Fuck your feelings.

  14. I’m with John Galt (September 11, 2016 at 12:40 pm ) on this.

    If misogyny is to be a crime, so must misandry. Otherwise the police and the rest of the legal system are guilty of sexual discrimination.

    Let us therefore (or rather them) hope that the crime occurrence statistics are matched by their diligent pursuit of the crimes.

    Best regards

  15. Was anyone else reminded of this?

    “There’s no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren’t enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws.” – Ayn Rand

  16. Dear Mr Worstall

    Sounds like a super wheeze for the state to collect even more fingerprints and DNA samples for their lovely database.

    In next week’s news: treading on cracks in the pavement is illegal; one million arrests made.

    @ Jonathan September 11, 2016 at 1:48 pm

    Ayn Rand was well ahead of her time at least in terms of the sort of thing beloved of totalitarian regimes everywhere becoming the norm in Western civilisation.

    Remember Robin Page’s arrest in 2002?

    Five years later:

    NB No police officers’ careers were harmed in the process.


  17. DP

    “No careers harmed” etc..

    From your second link:

    in order to gain the attention of listeners at the gathering in Frampton-upon-Severn, Glos, he started in a “light-hearted fashion”.

    His opening remark was: “If you are a black, vegetarian, Muslim, asylum-seeking, one-legged lesbian lorry driver, I want the same rights as you.

    Well – who wouldn’t?

    Mr Page was also astonished to discover that his name was put on a “Homo-phobic Incidents Register”.

    He also took exception to an internal email from the arresting officer – after requesting a change of bail renewal date to allow him to go on a journalistic trip to Kenya, the sergeant wrote: “Let’s hope he gets eaten by a crocodile.


  18. We have a crime called terroristic threats. The intent of the legislature was to use it to prosecute, shock, terrorists. The beauty of this law is that it is fully up to the police to decide if you made a threat. My coworker is still dealing with the legal repercussions for a fight, lots of screaming, with his gf six years later. That she didn’t press charges and testified in court that she wasn’t terrorized doesn’t matter. What mattered is that is was a slam dunk conviction which only requires the cop’s words as evidence.

    My guess is some well meaning legislators wrote a similarly poor law.

  19. Unfortunately, if you tried it [introducing a written constitution] now, you’d get things like the ‘right’ to housing, education…

    Yes – just the way Trudeau the elder buggered up Canada. Round two will end even less happily.

  20. It will be like the definitions of racism where society and histriocal power dynamics are a factor so a minority person isnt racist even if they act in a racist manner, a definition I’ve seen used in awareness courses. So the logic would be feminist misandry isn’t a hate crime because it is or has historically been a patriarchal society.
    Some of the most misogynistic people I’ve meet have been gay men, so that should provide an interesting ‘who is the bigger oppressed victim’ game for the police to figure out.
    Maybe a defence could be that the man was just identifying as a trans women that day so his hate crime wasn’t misogynistic

  21. Some of the most misogynistic people I’ve meet have been gay men, so that should provide an interesting ‘who is the bigger oppressed victim’ game for the police to figure out.

    The direction of the blowing wind will tell you. I made the point in my post about the SCOTUS decision on gay marriage that gays might now find themselves considered mainstream and be on the receiving end of feminist witch-hunts (this point had been discussed plenty beforehand by others, it certainly didn’t originate with me).

    Now last week I was talking to a friend of mine who works for a giant American bank in New York, whose recruitment policies are stuffed full of diversity programs, quotas, and political correctness and he told me that when discussing a potential candidate who was gay, the head of HR said “Oh, those guys aren’t considered minorities any more so don’t qualify for special treatment.”

  22. Nottinghamshire Police didn’t investigate m report of a theft, even though the incident was on a third party’s CCTV and they kept the recording for the police to see. They’ve got time to waste on rubbishy claims of “hate crimes” though

  23. Notts police picked this stuff up from the iirc Nottingham Women’s Centre and Nottingham Hollaback, so it is hardly a surprise that it is a sexist mess.

  24. bumfluff,

    Why is it always the policewoman that hits you from behind with the billy club as you are walking home from the bar?

    It should have been painfully obvious I was not the naked guy that just ran down the street.

  25. If I had my druthers I’d sack every copper over the rank of chief inspector, promote heavily from the ranks and say any repetition of such cod Marxist nonsense would mean another cull. Oh, and ACPO would be banned.

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