Demand brings forth supply

Some householders in Greater Manchester are paying a private firm to empty their bins.
Many are angry because some councils have reduced rubbish collections in an attempt to cut costs, and to motivate people to recycle more.
A local businessman who bought himself a truck eighteen months ago is now emptying up to 800 bins a week.

39 thoughts on “Demand brings forth supply”

  1. The council won’t like being shown up like that and will find a way to shut him down. They always do…

  2. So long as he has a waste carriers licence (free, you just register online) he’ll pay a gate fee at the local waste plant.

    800 bins @ 30kg per bin = 24T Gate fees vary but the top end is £50/T. £1,200 plus running costs, he’s not going to be making a fortune, but he can make a living. Get the gate fees down and he’s quids in.

  3. Get the gate fees down and he’s quids in.

    If this were anywhere other than the UK and maybe 3-4 other countries the guy on the gate would be cut in on the deal and the gate fees would be zero.

  4. Seems like even local governement has forgotten what it is for.

    As our gracious host likes to say they need to ’empty the bins’. And this gentleman with his rubbish lorry will as, Julia says, soon find himself on the end of a sharp stick.

    Wasn’t it near Bath a couple of years back that somebody opened a private toll road during long-term roadworks. If I remember rightly they pis**d him about wholesale and then managed to finish the works way ahead of schedule just to f*** him up some more.

    Read this morning here, that in Madrid, the emergency services have half their local bases closed overnight, doubling the time required for an ambulance to reach emergencies in the less attended areas.

    No shortage of show-case virtue signalling solidarity with people who contribute nothing, but cut back on the very services they are there to provide.

  5. @Bilbaoboy

    ‘Wasn’t it near Bath a couple of years back that somebody opened a private toll road during long-term roadworks. If I remember rightly they pis**d him about wholesale and then managed to finish the works way ahead of schedule just to f*** him up some more.’

    How did that work? Farmer with a field alongside or something? Great idea anyway. Say £2 a pop you could make a fortune on a busy road. How did they fuck him about?

  6. Bilbaoboy, It’s typical Washington Monument Syndrome. They’ll cut 50% of the waste collectors and emergency services before a single diversity coordinator loses their job. It’s about punishing the public for voting in the wrong government.

    Looks like the BBC may be up to it too http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3911496/Could-Attenborough-s-Planet-Earth-verge-extinction.html though Natural History is a money making outfit, so the cuts might actually be unnecessary jobs, but, just like in that Mail article, you can bet it will be spun to hell that BBC budget cuts risks natural history documentary making.

  7. Isn’t this basically a quantity charge on rubbish collection?

    Namely if you produce more than normal non-recyclable rubbish, you have to pay extra. Ergo you move from a tragedy of the commons (non-metered rubbish production) to a fixed right (your council tax gives you a fixed rubbish collection allocation). I think you don’t want to meter everyone, since it could be too expensive. A fixed allocation plus a variable charge seems somewhat reasonable…

    Assuming there is some externality in non-recyclable rubbish production, it could be an actual improvement…

    Given that central government grants are going down, there is less chance it’s just a tax creep as well, just a marginal re-balancing of taxes from a low rubbish production household to a high rubbish production household.

  8. magnusw said:
    “So long as he has a waste carriers licence (free, you just register online)”

    Ha, that’ll be the next thing they’ll charge for then.

  9. One way to cut council corruption is to overstaff the department. Then there are too many people who need to be paid off to make it worthwhile. Then if the department is supposed to be self funding you need to increase the fees. And so on.

  10. @magnus, given the BBC has just admitted cutting ‘distressing’ scenes of penguins dying from the latest documentary, of what worth is Attenborough now anyway?

  11. I could find a few pikeys from one of the local boozers in Manchester who I guarantee would do it cheaper than this guy and would be able to flytip the rubbish unimpeded by the authorities on the grounds of their ‘diversity’. Not criticising him but that’s the reality.

    Completely echo the as always spot on seniiments of Dongguan John and bilbaoboy – this guy will be shut down by the council. The employees in local authorities see the people paying their salaries as an irritant and the goal is to get through the day from 9:45 to 4:15 with minimal contact with the General public and council taxpayers.

  12. Bilbaoboy, It’s typical Washington Monument Syndrome. They’ll cut 50% of the waste collectors and emergency services before a single diversity coordinator loses their job. It’s about punishing the public for voting in the wrong government.

    I call it the “Baby Seal Gambit”. Representative of vested government interest goes on BBC with a baby seal and says he’ll be forced to shoot said baby seal if budget cuts go ahead. Presenter nods sorrowfully in agreement, doesn’t mention the stupid and wasteful spending which could be cut instead.

    It’s a punishment beating for the locals to bring them into line. Favourite areas are closing libraries and turning off street lamps at night. Translating every council document into Innuit programme unaffected.

  13. Interested, pretty much how it happened, yes. They fucked him about by suddenly spending an extra half million of taxpayers’ cash

    Amazing how fast they can get stuff done when they want to, eh?

  14. acarraro,

    > Assuming there is some externality in non-recyclable rubbish production

    There’s very little externality. Thanks to the EU we have landfill taxes, but there’s no physical shortage of places to dump the waste. Incineration is quite effective too. Greens often like to point out that we should avoid consumerism in the first place, but that’s a completely different argument. The biggest externalities are collection & disposal costs, and the bin lorry noise which wakes me up early in the morning.

    Conversely, what are the externalities of *not* collecting the rubbish every week? Smelly bins, piles of black bags building up in the streets or in front yards, increased numbers of urban foxes tearing holes in the bags.

    Granted, some of those externalities can be offset by paying for the private collection service mentioned in the original post. But not all families will want, or can afford, to pay for the extra collections. So their neighbours still suffer some of the externalities.

    > just a marginal re-balancing of taxes from a low rubbish production household to a high rubbish production household

    Yes, pretty much. But it’s not a mandatory tax: high rubbish production households aren’t compelled to pay for the extra service: they can just choose to let their waste pile up, or surreptitiously dump their black bin bags in their neighbours’ wheelie bins in the middle of the night.

    Overall, we suffer some rather vexing externalities for a tiny implied saving on our council tax.

  15. @Rob

    My thoughts exactly! In a rational world, such an improvement in performance would immediately be subject to scrutiny- with question number one being “Why didn’t you plan to do it this way first?”

    Said investigation preferably being carried out by Ecksy, in between him assembling the flatpack guillotine he undoubtedly owns.

  16. “Seems like even local governement has forgotten what it is for.”

    Nope, it hasn’t. It just thinks it’s job is to maintain jobs in local government.

  17. It just thinks it’s job is to maintain jobs in local government.

    Up here, it also provides a convenient place to park budding politicians until they can be elected to properly batten off the serfs.

  18. An example of the Washington Monument Syndrome/Baby Seal Gambit is Bristol City Council’s removal of all lollipop wo/men.

    The first child to be killed will be a victim of Tory cuts…cont’d p.94.

  19. An example of the Washington Monument Syndrome/Baby Seal Gambit is Bristol City Council’s removal of all lollipop wo/men.

    Well, you have to admire that for the sheer brazen callous cuntery of it.

    Let me guess – the local govt equivalent of SPADs are still employed; the council will still be producing a glossy lie-sheet no-one reads, and huge sums will still be flung like confetti to local Arts groups. But the lollipop ladies are currently in a roadside ditch with one round in the back of the head. WE MADE THEM DO IT!!!

  20. Rob, it’d make little difference to remove lollipop ladies (and men) in my area, since they mostly operate at existing zebra crossings, and in at least two instances I can think of, at Pelican crossings!

    They are a waste of money.

  21. I just can’t imagine that the following could ever possibly happen;

    Council raises gate fees,
    Our entrepreneur with a bin lorry can no longer afford them so shuts down.

    The current Council contractor also discovers that the gate fees are no longer affordable.

    Council suddenly wakes up one morning to realise there’s no bin collection service.

    Council has to accept higher cost from bidders due to point 1.

    Council Tax goes up.

  22. JuliaM

    Lollipop wo/men at pelican or zebra crossings is a classic! Where I live, they are stationed on busy roads near schools, so are useful. Similarly, in Bristol, I imagine. I hear Dudley MBC is also planning to axe them. Whether they are a waste of money or not, the aim is to cut high-profile services, while the diversity coordinators and the Directors on six-figure salaries remain secure.

  23. acarraro,

    > Isn’t this basically a quantity charge on rubbish collection?
    > Namely if you produce more than normal non-recyclable rubbish …

    That might be a fair point if the calculation of the amount you’re allowed to throw away hadn’t been taken over by ideology.

    Example: my in-laws. Three adults and two children in the house, then a third child arrived. They contacted the council to ask for another bin, as the one bin with fortnightly collections wouldn’t be enough capacity. The council said no, as they had (they claimed) calculated the amount of waste the household was allowed to throw away based on house size. They offered to pay for another bin, then. The council still said no, as the issue isn’t cost; it’s forcing behavioural change for Gaia. It’s not that they’re not entitled to another bin for the price they’ve paid; it’s that they’re not allowed another bin on moral grounds.

    The whole calculating thing is clearly bollocks, too, since there are a whole bunch of different-sized houses in that street but only one size of bin. Honestly, sometimes you’d almost think they were just making up any old shit as they went along.

  24. @S2

    “Honestly, sometimes you’d almost think they were just making up any old shit as they went along.”

    You take that back!

  25. “Demand brings forth supply”

    Now that this basic fact has come up can we discuss ways of increasing demand for businesses?

  26. @JuliaM, November 7, 2016 at 3:57 pm
    “Rob, it’d make little difference to remove lollipop ladies (and men) in my area, since they mostly operate at existing zebra crossings, and in at least two instances I can think of, at Pelican crossings!

    They are a waste of money.”

    +1 When I moved from NI to GB I was astounded to see Lollopop people at traffic light controled pedestrian crossings. Are GB children too thich to push a button and waait for the green man?

    As you say, a waste of money.

    .
    @Theophrastus, November 7, 2016 at 5:45 pm
    “Whether they are a waste of money or not, the aim is to cut high-profile services, while the diversity coordinators and the Directors on six-figure salaries remain secure.”

    +1

    .
    @Squander Two, November 7, 2016 at 6:47 pm
    “Example: my in-laws. Three adults and two children in the house, then a third child arrived. They contacted the council to ask for another bin, as the one bin with fortnightly collections wouldn’t be enough capacity. The council said no, as they had (they claimed) calculated the amount of waste the household was allowed to throw away based on house size. They offered to pay for another bin, then. The council still said no. It’s not that they’re not entitled to another bin for the price they’ve paid; it’s that they’re not allowed another bin on moral grounds.”

    Acquire an abandoned bin from a nearby street – they often blow away after being emptied when it is windy. Leave both outside on collection day. Works where I live.

  27. You have to wonder why rubbish collection is organized (and so controlled) by the local government and not pushed out for individual contracting.

    Its not like electricity, gas, or water where there’s a potential (but still solvable) issue with the use of the mains.

  28. Tim Newman
    November 7, 2016 at 10:30 am

    Get the gate fees down and he’s quids in.

    If this were anywhere other than the UK and maybe 3-4 other countries the guy on the gate would be cut in on the deal and the gate fees would be zero.

    Still wouldn’t be zero – its just the landfill wouldn’t be getting the fee if it was being done sub-rosa.

  29. THREE WEEKS! WTF?!

    I thought it was crazy when some of those places went to two week collections. And that dude in the video has 4 bins to sort crap into.

    I live in a tiny town in the middle of nowhere and our local government can manage to fund *twice weekly* collection – that’s pretty standard throughout the US too. I have two bins – one green and one blue. The blue one is, nominally, for recycling but since the county and state government shut down the subsidies the recycling center could no longer scam money so both are trash bins now.

    Well, they were always trash bins as there’s no law requiring us (and, more importantly, giving an excuse for more inspectors) to sort . . .

  30. JuliaM,

    Attenborough’s been crap for years. People class it as science or natural history, but it’s really like a bunch of YouTube clips of funny cats, but with wildlife. Nice to look at, but it’s not telling people anything.

    And complaints from the Natural History Unit’s union bloke? Yeah, I’ll trust that.

    The BBC probably doesn’t even need a Natural History Unit. Making TV just isn’t that hard any longer. When transport around the world and film cameras were insanely expensive, yes. But a 6K Epic Red is only £25K now, and that’s better than what they use to make independent movies. You could probably even shoot wildlife for broadcast on a £4K EOS 5D. Which means you can just leave the market to come to you with ideas and footage.

    This is why the BBC is basically fucked. A lot of what they do can be made by anyone. OK, not the costume dramas but Red Letter Media’s film review show beats the pants off the “Film” show and it’s on YouTube.

  31. Still wouldn’t be zero – its just the landfill wouldn’t be getting the fee if it was being done sub-rosa.

    Oh sure. The gatekeeper’s employer would be getting shafted, but the public wouldn’t care.

  32. BiW:

    This is why the BBC is basically fucked. A lot of what they do can be made by anyone. OK, not the costume dramas –

    Costume dramas are easy. Netflix just released The Crown which blows the socks off Downton Abbey. What’s nigh impossible is getting a significant number of respectable celebrities together for a Saturday night show. Netflix will never make Strictly Come Dancing. (Admittedly live TV isn’t their market, but the point still stands.) Even ITV struggles to make anything like that; instead they have semi-celebrity stuff like Britain’s Got Talent and Ant & Dec’s Saturday Night Takeaway.

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