Not HillaryDecember 18, 2016 Tim WorstallNewspaper Watch37 CommentsQuestions from Paul Krugman we can answer: What Do Trump Voters Want? previousInterestingnextGood piece here 37 thoughts on “Not Hillary” Bloke in Wiltshire December 18, 2016 at 12:01 pm I read a piece by an HRC staffer who was getting people to keep diaries of how they felt, and he said that the moment she described many of Trump’s supporters as “deplorables”, the people on the fence shifted to Trump. I hope to god that’s the end of HRC as a possible candidate. It’s been a feminist dream for years. Not saying you can’t have a Democrat woman, but they’ve put all their chips on one of the worst people in US politics for decades. Bloke in North Dorset December 18, 2016 at 12:28 pm Do you mean this one? He was a supporter but not a staffer, still an interesting read, though: My task was to help her campaign understand undecided voters in swing states. Finding them and getting insights from them was right up my alley — a skill I honed over my 14 years as CEO of C Space — and when I got a call to help, I couldn’t resist. I left my job as CEO of Startup Institute, and was off and running. At first, I couldn’t understand how anyone could be undecided. The distinction between Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton was so clear to me, the gap so wide. Much to my surprise, it was easy to find the Undecideds: people who had significant enough reservations about both candidates that they were searching for a sign, looking for more information, or just waiting it out until November. .. Last week, I reread all of my notes. There was one moment when I saw more undecided voters shift to Trump than any other, when it all changed, when voters began to speak differently about their choice. It wasn’t FBI Director James Comey, Part One or Part Two; it wasn’t Benghazi or the e-mails or Bill Clinton’s visit with Attorney General Loretta Lynch on the tarmac. No, the conversation shifted the most during the weekend of Sept. 9, after Clinton said, “You can put half of Trump supporters into what I call the basket of deplorables.” The conversation shifted the most after Clinton said, “You can put half of Trump supporters into what I call the basket of deplorables.” All hell broke loose. George told me that his neighborhood was outraged, that many of his hard-working, church-going, family-loving friends resented being called that name. He told me that he looked up the word in the dictionary, and that it meant something so bad that there is no hope, like the aftermath of a tsunami. You know, he said, Clinton ended up being the biggest bully of them all. Whereas Trump bullied her, she bullied Wilkes Barre. I remember someone on here, may have even been Tim, saying that it was Politics 101, attack the candidate but never their supporters. Rob December 18, 2016 at 12:41 pm Putin made her say it. DocBud December 18, 2016 at 1:21 pm These people keep missing the point. In saying that the world doesn’t want coal, the definition of the world is the lefty, inner city elite (stinking, commie bastards, if you will). The actual world does want coal, be it for jobs or for cheap energy. The Other Bloke in Italy December 18, 2016 at 1:29 pm All goes to show that Bill was kept right out of it. He would never have made such elementary errors. John Galt December 18, 2016 at 1:46 pm All goes to show that Bill was kept right out of it. He would never have made such elementary errors. Perhaps, but this is not the first time on the POTUS election trail is it? She lost the nomination to Obama in 2008 and although that campaign wasn’t quite as polarising as this one there were elements in 2008 when similar issues and attitudes poked through the political mists into the daylight. Ultimately, it was Hillary that lost it for herself both times as she persists in being the same old Hillary Rodham Clinton, prepared to do anything for a campaign contribution and say anything for a vote when we all knew she didn’t mean a damn word. Ultimately, too many people were not prepared to let the Whitehouse go to this shrieking harpy and the vast majority of those were white women (about 53% of white women voted for Trump…or against Hillary, depending upon your own viewpoint), so according to some of Hillary’s closest supporters there is a special place in hell for these women… Former secretary of state Madeleine Albright introduced Hillary Clinton at an event in New Hampshire on Saturday, telling the crowd and voters in general: “There’s a special place in hell for women who don’t help each other!” John Galt December 18, 2016 at 1:47 pm *vast majority* = *substantial minority* Oops! dearieme December 18, 2016 at 2:17 pm Hellary won her Senate seat for NY only after Slick Willie rescued her flagging campaign, or so I have read. She lost the primaries to O. She lost the primaries to Sanders, but the DNC cheated and awarded her the candidacy anyway. Having been chosen in spite of her lamentable record, she then contrived to show her usual form and lose to the absurd Trump. She’s a dud. The DNC are dunderheads. The US has dodged a bullet. The Inimitable Steve December 18, 2016 at 2:26 pm The Other Bloke in Italy – From what I read, Bill was trying to get his wife’s campaign to do more sensible stuff, such as show up and campaign in Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania. The nerds running his wife’s campaign didn’t get it. They ignored the bread and butter stuff of local human contact in favour of a barrage of TV ads, social media microtargetting, celebrity endorsements and daft stunts (whoever signed off the official Hillary Clinton Woman Card should be taken to the woodshed). Kevin B December 18, 2016 at 2:36 pm What do Trump voters want? How about jobs. And build the damn wall. Oh, and make Mexico pay for it. And bring back the jobs. There was something else, wasn’t there? Oh yes. MAGA! The Inimitable Steve December 18, 2016 at 2:51 pm Re: Paul Krugman. It really has been a pleasure to see him hysterically crying and lying over Trumpageddon. He’s in minor key here, but still lolzsome: the world doesn’t want more coal Dunno. I bet the world wants cheap, reliable energy of the sort provided by coal a helluva lot more than it wants useless and mind-bogglingly expensive wind farms, but US (and European) energy policy is so trussed up and omnifucked by environmental regulations, green subsidies and punitive taxes it’s difficult to tell how much real demand there is for coal. You’d think a Nobel prize winning economist would know this. what those longing for the return to coal want is those jobs they deserve, where they earn their money — not government handouts, no sir. Autistic man discovers the working classes prefer jobs to scatching their arses on handouts. More at 11. I don’t think any kind of economic analysis can explain this. It has to be about culture and, as always, race. DAMN YOU, WHITE PEOPLE!!!!1!1 Rob December 18, 2016 at 3:03 pm “They ignored the bread and butter stuff of local human contact” Wise, because they knew she was hopeless at it. Roué le Jour December 18, 2016 at 3:09 pm You’d think a Nobel prize winning economist would know this. Economists work out of the Arts building, not the Science building. Otherwise second year engineering students would laugh at them. John Galt December 18, 2016 at 4:50 pm Wise, because they knew she was hopeless at it. Indeed, this was the one thing they couldn’t change. Hillary was always going to be Hillary, with the same disastrous, fucked up personality that has made her electoral poison with voters since Bill’s first term as Governor of Arkansas in 1979. You can have all of the makeup and clothes you like, but the character is unchanged and unredeemed. She is still the First Lesbian of Little Rock, no matter how large the stage. Bloke in Tejas December 18, 2016 at 5:18 pm “I don’t think any kind of economic analysis can explain this. It has to be about culture and, as always, race.” Race? Then obviously all the inner cities voted Trump, no? Why trivialize an (uninspiring) opinion pete with that kind of nonsense? Bloke in Tejas December 18, 2016 at 5:18 pm Grrr. ‘piece’ not “pete” Gamecock December 18, 2016 at 5:20 pm And a president should be able to walk up stairs by herself. Chris December 18, 2016 at 5:48 pm “And a president should be able to walk up stairs by herself.” Good job FDR was a man, then. Bloke in Costa Rica December 18, 2016 at 6:08 pm Krugman has been driven so demented by the prospect of a Trump Presidency that he’s now indulging in wink-wink-nudge-nudge insinuations that Trump might order up a false flag terrorist incident to get the country behind him. Of course this says a lot more about Krugman than about Trump. Richard December 18, 2016 at 6:22 pm dearieme said: “She lost the primaries to Sanders, but the DNC cheated and awarded her the candidacy anyway.” I hadn’t heard that one. Any actual basis for it? I thought as well as winning overall she won on the elected delegates and the popular vote. John Galt December 18, 2016 at 7:05 pm @Richard: Earlier this year, WikiLeaks exposed that the Democrat primary was rigged in favor of Hillary Clinton. Leaked DNC emails revealed top DNC officials were supportive of Mrs. Clinton and made sure it was difficult, if not impossible for Senator Bernie Sanders to ever win his party’s nomination. DNC lawyers have just responded to a class-action lawsuit over their primary being rigged, arguing that maintaining a fair and balanced primary was merely a “political promise.” The lawyers argued that “Courts have uniformly rejected attempts to litigate on the basis of purported political promises, including ‘statements of principle and intent in the political realm.” Essentially, the DNC’s promise to remain neutral and fair during the primary is a political promise similar to “policy proposals made in campaign platforms that aren’t fulfilled when in office.” What’s worse is that the DNC’s lawyers claimed that Bernie Sanders’ supporters were aware that the DNC and chairwoman Debbie Wasserman Schultz were biased against their candidate, an argument that has never been substantiated. Conveniently, the DNC lawyers are the same ones Hilary used throughout her presidential campaign, so it should come as no surprise that her personal lawyers would be defending the DNC’s favorable treatment of the party’s now-nominee. http://observer.com/2016/10/dnc-lawyers-argue-no-liability-neutrality-is-merely-a-promise/ Tim Newman December 18, 2016 at 7:29 pm I hadn’t heard that one. Any actual basis for it? I thought as well as winning overall she won on the elected delegates and the popular vote. The thing that struck me as extremely fishy was she won 6 out of the 6 coin tosses. As the BBC puts it: Unusually, all six coin tosses were won by Clinton. According to John Moriarty, Reader in Mathematics at Queen Mary University London, there would have been a one-in-64 or 1.6% chance of Clinton winning all six flips. I may have shrugged if it were in any other context, but with a Clinton involved… Edward M. Grant December 18, 2016 at 7:47 pm “Hillary was always going to be Hillary, with the same disastrous, fucked up personality that has made her electoral poison with voters since Bill’s first term as Governor of Arkansas in 1979.” As some online commentator said a couple of months back, every man who looks at Hillary Clinton sees his shrieking ex-wife. She must have the entire Democrat party in her blackmail files to be able to get nominated. John Galt December 18, 2016 at 7:57 pm As some online commentator said a couple of months back, every man who looks at Hillary Clinton sees his shrieking ex-wife. She must have the entire Democrat party in her blackmail files to be able to get nominated. No. She had a treasure chest of funding beyond the dreams of avarice, which made Uncle Bernie’s more popular but far more organic campaign look positively poverty stricken. The problem was that the money could buy the nomination, but it couldn’t buy the election. Although god only knows she tried. Her election 2016 spending was vast compared to Trump. ZT December 18, 2016 at 7:58 pm I’m tired of being call a racist just because I’m white, and I think a lot of other people are too. The next step is to go to “If I’ve got the name, I might as well play the game”, and you end up with whites voting as a block, just as blacks have done. Bloke in Leeds December 18, 2016 at 8:32 pm You have to love the mindless deference to so-called experts at the BBC: Unusually, all six coin tosses were won by Clinton. According to John Moriarty, Reader in Mathematics at Queen Mary University London, there would have been a one-in-64 or 1.6% chance of Clinton winning all six flips. According to Jane Smith, Year 8 maths student, it was one-in-64 because it’s an extremely simple probability to work out: one half to the power of six. Hasn’t poor John Moriarty got better things to do than to pander to idiotic journalists? Honestly, if a person can’t grasp basic probability how are they to navigate the risks in their life? Edward M. Grant December 18, 2016 at 9:33 pm You have to remember that the majority of people going into journalism these days do so because they failed at everything else. It’s a low-end job in a dying industry, who else would want it? Bloke in Costa Rica December 18, 2016 at 9:33 pm If he’d been asked to work out the probability of winning four from six the journalist would probably have called for him to be burnt as a sorcerer. David Moore December 18, 2016 at 9:37 pm Krugman is very telling with this passage; “Working-class Trump voters do, in fact, receive a lot of government handouts — they’re almost totally dependent on Social Security for retirement, Medicare for health care when old, are quite dependent on food stamps, and many have recently received coverage from Obamacare. Quite a few receive disability payments too. They don’t want those benefits to go away. But they managed to convince themselves (with a lot of help from Fox News etc) that they aren’t really beneficiaries of government programs, or that they’re not getting the “good welfare”, which only goes to Those People.” I think the bit he is missing, and seems almost incapable of understanding, is that many of these people are unhappy with being recipients of these benefit. What they want are worthwhile, respectable, jobs that pay well enough to not rely on an array of government handouts. David Moore December 18, 2016 at 9:42 pm Edward M. Grant “You have to remember that the majority of people going into journalism these days do so because they failed at everything else. It’s a low-end job in a dying industry, who else would want it?” Don’t agree at all. Journalism is, these days, mostly a profession for well to do children of the upper middle classes who want to ‘make a difference’. It’s a toss up between Journalism and work in an NGO. They haven’t failed at anything, because they have never had the sisu to try anything. Ted S. December 18, 2016 at 10:43 pm Hellary won her Senate seat for NY only after Slick Willie rescued her flagging campaign, or so I have read. I don’t believe this is the case, at least not from my memory, and I live in New York. New York has long been a blue state, and the media were in the tank for her even in 2000. John Fembup December 18, 2016 at 11:20 pm Re: New York Senate race, 2000. From Wikipedia: “A September 13, 2000 debate between Lazio and Clinton proved important. Lazio was on the warpath against soft money and the amounts of it coming from the Democratic National Committee into Clinton’s campaign, and challenged Clinton to agree to ban soft money from both campaigns. He left his podium and waved his proposed paper agreement in Clinton’s face; many debate viewers thought he had invaded her personal space and as a result Clinton’s support among women voters solidified.” I lived in NYC at the time and do not recall an “invasion”. Lazio did walk over to her podium and insist she sign his proposal right then and there to prove she believed her own campaign rhetoric. If you’ll recall “getting money out of politics” was one of Clinton’s ideas in the 2016 campaign – chuckles all around. The 2000 “personal space” issue became an “invasion” when The New York Times weighed in and continually called it an invasion, right up to the election 2 months later. The liberal crowd in NY – what other crowd is there – was happy to have that cudgel with which to beat the helpless Lazio about the head. If you’ll recall, Clinton tried to raise the same issue about Trump in one of the 2016 debates, but it fell flat. Paranoia sells much better in New York. Gamecock December 18, 2016 at 11:46 pm ‘Good job FDR was a man, then.’ Different time. Things changed in 1960 with TV coverage. Mal Reynolds (Serenity) December 19, 2016 at 9:49 am Bill low-key wanted Hillary to lose. Another 4 years in the White House spotlight for him? No more dicking bimbos. I bet he was dreading the thought. Rob December 19, 2016 at 11:28 am DNC lawyers have just responded to a class-action lawsuit over their primary being rigged, arguing that maintaining a fair and balanced primary was merely a “political promise.” Nothing says ‘integrity’ more than the “Hah! Dumbass rubes!” Defence. dearieme December 19, 2016 at 4:36 pm “I think the bit he is missing, and seems almost incapable of understanding, is that many of these people are unhappy with being recipients of these benefits.” There may be another aspect too. They may well feel that over a working lifetime they have paid for Social Security and Medicare and so on, and now would like their reward. That’s obviously a different position from anyone in the lumpenproletariat who draws out but virtually never pays in, or who has no legal right to be in the country anyway. Gamecock December 19, 2016 at 7:45 pm 10-4, dearieme. I’m politically opposed to SS and Medicare, but I paid for it for 40 years, so I have no compunction whatsoever to accepting it. Leave a Reply Cancel replyYour email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *Comment Name * Email * Website Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment.