They just never stop, do they?

More than 3 million European Union citizens living in Britain after Brexit will have to be issued with “some form of documentation”, the home secretary has said.

Amber Rudd told MPs she would not yet set out the details for any new EU ID card, but said: “There will be a need to have some sort of documentation. We are not going to set it out yet. We are going to do it in a phased approach to ensure that we use all the technology advantages that we are increasingly able to harness to ensure that all immigration is carefully handled.”

Non-UKites will need ID cards. So, obviously, UKites will need ID cards so that they can be distinguished from non-UKites. Because simple absence of a card will not be proof of being a UKite.

The Home Office, the institution, wants us all barcoded on our foreheads. Just because and any reason will do.

38 thoughts on “They just never stop, do they?”

  1. Great thing this Brexit innit? Bonfire of regulations, great repeal bill, and all the liberty and freedom in the world!

  2. So Much For Subtlety

    The problem with letting so many rapists, murderers and other assorted unwanted unwashed masses into this country is that it is next to impossible to get them out again.

    ID cards won’t work but without ID cards, what can we do? I suggest a poll tax of £10,000 per head – with 25% off for each British grandparent you can prove are related to you.

    Then at least you can get them for tax evasion.

  3. The rapists, murderers, unwashed masses are largely from more vibrant places than Europe. And you could, quite effectively, put an almost total stop to that tomorrow, if Theresa May wanted to.

  4. They will be foreigners so they will have passports, put a visa stamp in the passport just like they currently do for all the non-EU foreigners.

    Amber Rudd is a Remainer so of course she wants ID cards, she also thinks Smart Energy Meters are a good idea as well.

  5. “you could, quite effectively, put an almost total stop to that tomorrow, if Theresa May wanted to”

    Shhhh, it is important to pretend that everyone is angry about Polish immigrants, not those from the vibrant ROP areas of the world where of course immigration could be easily halted and even reversed. That’s not what is wanted though.

  6. BiG, We could stop the Islamorapists coming directly from their third world shitholes. What we aren’t currently able to stop are the ones your beloved Mutti Merkel allowed in to Germany once she issues them with German passports.

  7. Mr Crun calls it right Biggie.

    Your beloved Fat Cow decided to make Europe a sponge for 3rd world rapeys–so the brand is now worthless.

    Mass migration of any kind is not wanted but there is correctly no longer trust in the claim of “European”.

    ID cards are of course shite and a passport stamp will do fine.

    As for your –yet again–cod crowing, no one said Brexit was a cure for all ills. We will still have to fight endlessly against our own evil shite but that is easier than against 28 scoops of evil shite plus extra evil EU evil bureaucrat sauce on top.

    The day you stop the fat cow in her tracks come crowing about how wonderful the continent is.

  8. @Henry Crun,

    Refugees are not issued with German passports. If they become regular residents, their time with refugee status (as adults at least) doesn’t even count towards the residency requirement for citizenship.

    I can assure you personally, as a legal immigrant who meets all the criteria, the procedure is far from straightforward. If you’re out of work, you won’t get it at all. If you’re in work and sure, a few Syrians are going to qualify in around 10 years from now, you’re hardly going to head to Britain becoz of The Social.

  9. @Ecks,

    It was your lot telling us how we’d be free of the jackboot of Brussels. What they failed to mention was that they wanted that so that they could use their own jackboot more.

  10. BiG – nobody is deluding themselves that Brexit is the sunny uplands but it is undoubtedly better to be governed mediocrely by people of your own choosing and according to a constitution grown organically over the centuries along with the nation itself, and which pays at least lip-service to democratic accountability; than to be governe abysmally by a bunch of people you have spent most of the past 500 years trying to prevent from governing you and who don’t even bother pretending they are anything other than a repulsive scam.

  11. All governments are repulsive scams.

    That said, history has shown you’re better off living with them than without. For heavens’ sake for all of the many faults of both the British government and the EU, they are among the least worst to have ever been in power in any place.

  12. Surely a tattoo on the forearm would be more durable and less likely to be mislaid, except perhaps in accidents involving farm machinery or printers’ guillotines.

    Once again the government fails to think outside the box.

  13. @BiG

    “That said, history has shown you’re better off living with them than without. For heavens’ sake for all of the many faults of both the British government and the EU, they are among the least worst to have ever been in power in any place.”

    They are repulsive scams, a necessary evil for now.

    But why do we need two? The British one is more than enough, thanks.

  14. “It was your lot telling us how we’d be free of the jackboot of Brussels. What they failed to mention was that they wanted that so that they could use their own jackboot more.”

    So what? Scum will always try it on. Less power/smaller gang= less chance of success. And nobody was “telling” me or millions of others anything. We made our own minds up.

    Here you show yourself still a member of the enemy class Biggie–even tho you may have some insight into its nature. “Little” people don’t have a thought that wasn’t put there by their betters–that is how the enemy thinks. If they don’t get their way it is because the agit-prop wasn’t good enough or massive enough–WRONG.

    “All governments are repulsive scams.

    That said, history has shown you’re better off living with them than without.”

    Self-contradictory.

    Also the smaller the repulsive scum the better.

    “EU–not as bad as Castro etc”–some fucking slogan.

    Brexit is only the beginning.

  15. Germany,

    What “our lot” said, quite consistently, was that we want the ability to chuck politicians out. We can chuck out UK government ministers. We can’t chuck out EU Commissioners. That simple.

    The reason we want to chuck them out is precisely that they’re shite. If we thought they were brilliant, we wouldn’t care whether we could chuck them out, would we? Dan Hannan made the point, repeatedly, that some EU legislation may be quite good, and that that isn’t the point. Benn said the same thing, when he was alive, and was widely quoted.

    This was all said during the campaign, a lot. That you manage to remember it as an expressed love for the wonderful and beneficent rulers of Westminster says more about you than the campaign.

    It seems to be the Remnants who think that rulers are wonderful. Why else would they be so determinedly dedicated to a system that doesn’t allow us to chuck them out?

  16. Hang on, the UK *doesn’t* issue resident non-citizens with some form of ID proving their status?

    Unlike every other developed country on the planet?

  17. It issued such to my missus, ‘er being non-EU.

    Wasn’t a big inconvenience, though the state did profiteer (and in this case, why not?)

  18. Hang on, the UK *doesn’t* issue resident non-citizens with some form of ID proving their status?

    Unlike every other developed country on the planet?

    Most don’t, to be fair. Visa in your passport is about as much as you get, and even those who say you have to carry it around with you don’t enforce it.

  19. > Visa in your passport is about as much as you get

    Er, that is some form of ID proving your status.

    > even those who say you have to carry it around with you don’t enforce it.

    I was stopped and asked for my papers in France once. The gendarmes were surprised to discover I had to show them my passport as the British don’t have ID cards. Pre-93, admittedly, but still an exampled of a jurisdiction saying that you have to carry your ID with you and then actually enforcing that rule.

  20. “I can assure you personally, as a legal immigrant who meets all the criteria, the procedure is far from straightforward. If you’re out of work, you won’t get it at all. If you’re in work and sure, a few Syrians are going to qualify in around 10 years from now, you’re hardly going to head to Britain becoz of The Social.”

    As the rules in Germany stand today, maybe. As they might well be in a year or two, who knows?

    Thats the point – we in the UK have to accept anyone that any other EU member state decides qualifies for a passport. Their decision, but we just have to accept it, even if we’d rather not have them here.

    So whats to stop some bright spark in Germany thinking ‘We’ve got all this cultural enrichment here in Germany that we’d like to get rid of, but we can’t throw them out of Germany as we’ve already given them the permanent right to stay. But if we give them citizenship they can leave voluntarily for other parts of the EU, and may well do so. So lets give them all citizenship!’?

  21. Er, that is some form of ID proving your status.

    The host government puts a sticker in your passport which does nothing to identify you. It would be a bit of a stretch to say the combination is a case of the host government issuing an ID to foreign residents.

  22. I was stopped and asked for my papers in France once. The gendarmes were surprised to discover I had to show them my passport as the British don’t have ID cards. Pre-93, admittedly, but still an exampled of a jurisdiction saying that you have to carry your ID with you and then actually enforcing that rule.

    We all have our own anecdotes. In 13 years of being a foreign resident, I have never, not even once, been asked to show any ID to a policeman.

  23. But Amber, dear, citizens of EU Countries resident in the UK already have ID… it is called a Passport which they need to get in, out and back in again since the UK is not part of Schengen.

    Meanwhile from the ‘Your Europe’ website:-

    “As EU national, you automatically acquire the right of permanent residence in another EU country if you have lived legally there for at least 5 years continuously.”

    “You can then apply for a permanent residence document, which confirms your rights to live in the country where you now live permanently, without any conditions.”

    And from HM Gov website:-

    “You can apply for a permanent residence card after you’ve lived in the UK for 5 years. This will prove your right to live in the UK permanently.”

    Makes you wonder about these coves in what passes for Government.

  24. Jim

    So whats to stop some bright spark in Germany thinking ‘We’ve got all this cultural enrichment here in Germany that we’d like to get rid of, but we can’t throw them out of Germany as we’ve already given them the permanent right to stay. But if we give them citizenship they can leave voluntarily for other parts of the EU, and may well do so. So lets give them all citizenship!’?

    Reminds me of something one of you quipped a while back on here:

    Quickest way to have emptied the jungle at Calais? Simply issue them all with French passports and a one way ticket to Dover.

  25. > The host government puts a sticker in your passport which does nothing to identify you.

    Nothing other than being in your passport and not in someone else’s and being invalid if not combined with the passport.

    > It would be a bit of a stretch to say the combination is a case of the host government issuing an ID to foreign residents.

    It’s no stretch at all to say that it is a case of the host government ensuring that foreign residents have a form of ID proving their status. You can quibble about which government actually produced the passport itself if you want, but I’m not convinced that affects the underlying point much.

  26. Adding to the anecdata, when I went to the Netherlands to work in 1998, not only did I have to get an apostille added to my birth certificate but I had to go to the public register office in Amsterdam to obtain a small plastic card which provided proof of residence.

    Similarly, when I worked in France in 1981-82, I had to go to the town-hall to register and obtain a carte de sejour.

    In both cases I suppose I could have ignored the stipulation but why take the chance? And my Dutch card did come in useful that time when the police asked to see my ID and I didn’t have my passport on me.

  27. Nothing other than being in your passport and not in someone else’s and being invalid if not combined with the passport.

    On that basis an entry stamp is an ID.

    It’s no stretch at all to say that it is a case of the host government ensuring that foreign residents have a form of ID proving their status.

    It is if it is no such thing. Everywhere I have lived I have been issued with a piece of paper affixed to my passport called a visa which allows me to enter the country. Thereafter nobody asks for it, or at least nobody has in my 13 years of living and working abroad. If you want to believe this is the same as the host government issuing an ID to foreigners to “confirm their status” you go right ahead.

  28. You can quibble about which government actually produced the passport itself if you want

    Whether one government or another issues somebody with a passport is a quibble, is it? Heh.

  29. Tim N, I see that France has relaxed the rules for the carte de sejour for Europeans but has your wife had to apply for one?

  30. Tim N, I see that France has relaxed the rules for the carte de sejour for Europeans but has your wife had to apply for one?

    They’ve not relaxed the rule, they’ve done away with it.

    She did apply for one yes, and a right pain in the arse it was too – mainly because the French prefectures are a law unto themselves and they don’t know EU legislation. She applied for it because it allowed her to travel in and out of France, but she didn’t need one to legally reside in France. And it would be a pain to open a bank account (say) without one (same as opening an account in the UK without a passport is nigh-on impossible).

  31. All,

    Non-EU citizens here on a work visa have to have a biometric ID card already (fingerprint, retina scan, etc.).

    I know because my American wife has had one for some years now.

    It makes her feel so welcome: she absolutely loves it to bits. She especially likes having to pay £100 for it every few years…

    DK

  32. > If you want to believe this is the same as the host government issuing an ID to foreigners to “confirm their status” you go right ahead.

    I’m sorry, I was under the impression that a visa constitutes permission to be in the country. My mistake, apparently.

  33. I’m sorry, I was under the impression that a visa constitutes permission to be in the country.

    Ah, so all this talk about government-issued identification documents…they’re actually just entry visas. Glad that’s cleared up.

  34. Tim, in all fairness, the main use of such credentials is to facilitate border crossings, for which purpose a visa in a passport should be adequate. However, there are times when proof of residence is better, eg if some moronic finance minister decrees that tax must be withheld on dividends and interest paid to people without a residence permit, but “proper” people can receive it gross. Things such as that. Failing regimes such as France and Russia are apt to do things like this,even when they really need the expat community.

  35. Diogenes,

    That’s fair enough: I wasn’t really discussing the merits or demerits of an ID card over a residency visa (certainly people find the French carte de sejour useful *once* they have been through the hell of getting it), I was more dispelling the notion that governments worldwide usually issue IDs to foreign residents. The French do, as do others I am sure, but it doesn’t happen as a matter of course and I’ve never been issued one (and I’ve lived under regimes which get called “oppressive” quite often).

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