Police intelligenceJanuary 20, 2017 Tim WorstallCivil Liberty85 CommentsPolice officers tasered their own black Race Relations Advisor in the face after mistaking him for a wanted man. previousOh yeah, this’ll worknextIt could be that Liam Byrne just doesn’t get it 85 thoughts on “Police intelligence” Ducky McDuckface January 20, 2017 at 11:58 am “The video shows officers approach Mr Adunbi on the street outside his own home and ask him for his name.” OK. “He replies: “I’m not telling you my name. I’ve done no wrong.” Well, that’s not particularly smart. “Mr Adinbi, a prominent member of Bristol’s black community, said: “At first you don’t accuse someone of being someone else. You ask questions.” Eh? Rob January 20, 2017 at 12:02 pm It would take a heart of stone not to titter. Bloke In Italy January 20, 2017 at 12:33 pm Well they all look the same I guess… On a serious note, thank god they weren’t armed. Bloke In Taiwan January 20, 2017 at 12:37 pm I’d have to see the video first to see if there’s something missing from this account, but otherwise I find it extremely difficult to believe that the rozzers actually needed to taser a 65 year old man in the face simply in order to ascertain his identity. Is it even illegal to refuse to identify yourself to a police officer? monoi January 20, 2017 at 12:45 pm I guess this race relation guy is not very good at his job… Dave Ward January 20, 2017 at 12:51 pm “It would take a heart of stone not to titter” I think I can safely say my heart is not made of stone! opsimath January 20, 2017 at 12:58 pm Isn’t ‘police intelligence’ an oxymoron? Dongguan John January 20, 2017 at 1:14 pm Is it even illegal to refuse to identify yourself to a police officer? Well it’s a matter of common sense. Sure it’s not illegal to refuse identify yourself to a police officer. But at the same time if a police officer couldn’t apprehended anyone who didn’t positively identify themselves as a suspect then law and order would breakdown. “Sorry, couldn’t arrest Ian Brady because he told us he was Joe Blogs”. It’s not a civil liberty issue to tell a copper your name and invite him in to show some id if he genuinely thinks you’re the suspect he’s looking for. You look like a suspect but refuse to assist the police officer in explaining who you are then you’re a Fuckwit not least because you’re wasting his time while an actual criminal is making his escape. That this guy was some liaison in making better relations between the ‘black community’ and police just shows how fucked up it all is. He should be setting an example on how to deal with these situations rather than being a dick and getting tasered. Mr Ecks January 20, 2017 at 1:16 pm While no fan of “race relations” tripe it is true that the bluebottles are entirely too fond of their electronic torture toys. All the more need for a stylish line of taser-proof clothing. JuliaM January 20, 2017 at 1:55 pm Idiot cops, mouthy uppity ‘comooonity’ tosser, everyone loses, I laugh. dearieme January 20, 2017 at 1:57 pm “Without fear or favour” The Meissen Bison January 20, 2017 at 2:04 pm Opsimath: Isn’t ‘police intelligence’ an oxymoron? Yes, if Roger Harrabin is a carbondioxymoron. JuliaM – I was getting worried about your consumption of popcorn and it’s good to laugh 🙂 The Eternal Pessimist January 20, 2017 at 2:11 pm Surely they mistook him for an UNwanted man? Dennis the Peasant January 20, 2017 at 2:19 pm It appears that the British police have copied American police… In the sense that they seem to be determined to try to foster improved community/race relations by engaging with exactly the sort of “community organizer” they should be taking pains to avoid. Bloke In Taiwan January 20, 2017 at 2:46 pm Yes it’s common sense to identify yourselves to the police when asked to, but you’d have thought there’d be a few alternatives to tasering an old man for not answering a question. Jim January 20, 2017 at 2:49 pm What a surprise, a female copper was the one wielding the taser like she was Dirty Harry. Another advantage (ha ah) of the wonderful feminised police force we have nowadays. Mainly because many such officers are shit scared of everyone male, because being women they can’t physically restrain them, even 60+ yo ones. Regardless of whether the man behaved stupidly by not giving his name, he doesn’t deserve to be tasered by some fat cow because she’s too scared/weak to do what she should have done if she thought he was a wanted suspect, namely arrest him. A couple of male coppers would never have gotten into this situation because they’d have known they could arrest the guy if needed without resorting to weaponry, and done so if needed. If it had been 2 female coppers the guy would probably have been tasered 2 seconds after he refused to give his name, they’d have been that edgy. God help us all if the police give firearms to women officers, there’ll be dead bodies piling up everywhere. Clovis Sangrail January 20, 2017 at 2:50 pm The cry of “Taser” was not made until after it was discharged (contrary to the code for using one), they shot him in the face which is vicious and stupid (always aim for the trunk), they had the filmer telling them he was entering his own house (not the house of the suspect they were looking for), he has no obligation to give his name and, allegedly, has a life-long injury from a previous interaction with the police. Can’t say I’m a fan of community organisers but the police really are violent fuckwits, aren’t they. Bloke In Taiwan January 20, 2017 at 2:57 pm It reminds me of this incident a few years back. Crazy old lady walking around the parking lot with a knife. Cop shows up and throws her to the ground – it’s as if police training makes no distinction between a teenage thug and an octogenarian grandma who’s off her meds. John Miller January 20, 2017 at 3:04 pm I forsee a bitter wrangle between the National Black Police Association and the National White Police Association. Oh, wait… Jim January 20, 2017 at 3:10 pm “Can’t say I’m a fan of community organisers but the police really are violent fuckwits, aren’t they” I don’t know if they were always like this and its just the rise in personal video devices that is increasingly capturing their regular violent disregard for the law, or they really have gotten worse. As ever I think its a bit of both – while the police certainly were capable of dishing out some summary ‘justice’ in the old days, it was probably only on those who they considered deserving of such, ie the criminal classes, and after much provocation. Whereas nowadays they’re quite happy to get violent very quickly with all and sundry, young, old, black, white, rich or poor, criminal or not, often for the most petty of reasons, and this is being captured by the ubiquity of passersby videoing anything and everything. I also think the current police force has far fewer officers with previous life experience of dealing with tense situations and this leads them to escalate matters where more cool heads would have managed to get by without causing a problem. NielsR January 20, 2017 at 3:19 pm Yes, let’s elect the short-tempered, obstructive, argumentative bugger as Relations advisor. Marvelous. How the hell did those muppets let him get another 20yards down the road and through that entry-gate? Plenty of wall to nudge him towards. The Meissen Bison January 20, 2017 at 3:20 pm Jim: they’re quite happy to get violent very quickly with all and sundry, young, old, black, white, rich or poor, criminal or not …always with the proviso that all and sundry are unarmed because in the case that all and sundry might have a weapon, they would hunker down in the cop-shop and fly helicopters over the scene instead. Bernie G. January 20, 2017 at 3:25 pm Yes, let’s elect the short-tempered, obstructive, argumentative bugger as Relations advisor. Marvelous… This is Bristol we’re talking about. Bernie G. January 20, 2017 at 3:27 pm I guess we are always going to have a 50/50 split between support for/loathing of both the plod and the miscreant. Ironman January 20, 2017 at 3:31 pm Just out of interest, is SMFS a Bristol Bobby? Tim Newman January 20, 2017 at 3:38 pm “The video shows officers approach Mr Adunbi on the street outside his own home and ask him for his name.” I’d like to know how they approached him initially. Were they polite along the lines of: “Excuse me sir, we are looking for Mr X and we need to identify people who match his description. Would you mind identifying yourself to us?” Or: “Excuse me, we need you to identify yourself,” said in the manner of a jumped-up jobsworth. Tim Newman January 20, 2017 at 3:40 pm Having watched the video, what is so pathetically lacking about those two policemen is what is known as “presence”. They may as well be a couple of kids. monoi January 20, 2017 at 3:48 pm A few years ago, I had 2 police officers come to my door, and without introducing themselves, immediately accused me of having fled the scene of an accident. You cannot help but think back whether that is possible because why would those 2 cops show up in the afternoon on a weekend? I assured them that I had not been involved in an accident recently, let alone fleeing one. “You were seen!” etc…, when one of them asked “this is address x, in town x”, to which I replied “this is address x, in town y”. Not a word of apology, and they left. I live in a big double fronted house in an affluent part of London, so I can only guess what it would have been like otherwise. Bloke In Taiwan January 20, 2017 at 3:54 pm “…is SMFS a Bristol Bobby?” This is what I got when I googled “Bristol Bobby”. Bloke in Costa Rica January 20, 2017 at 4:12 pm You are under no obligation to aid agents of the State. In the UK it is not an offence to fail to produce identification when asked, unless the asking piggie has a reasonable (reasonable, note) suspicion that you have just been, are, or are about to be engaged in criminal activity. Otherwise they can fuck right off. “I’m not telling you my name. I’ve done no wrong,” is a perfectly reasonable response to a jumped-up little tosser in a stab-proof. And apart from being reasonable, it’s legal. I hope they fucking swing. Clovis Sangrail January 20, 2017 at 4:14 pm @Bernie G. He did not contravene the law and so he was not a miscreant. Note that the self-protective, tit-for-tat charges were filed and then dropped! I (used to?) like the police (most of them) and part of the reason I write these comments is that I am in despair about their precipitate fall from grace (or some rough and ready approximation thereof) into a state of “aggressive, emotionally incontinent, ignorant proto-militia, which is almost entirely lacking in common-sense and situational awareness”. The female police officer tasered him because he wouldn’t roll-over in the face of their self-evident superiority. Oh and yes, he was being an arse, but he’s supposed to be allowed to do that within the law without having 50,000 volts delivered to his face. And what Jim says. Rob January 20, 2017 at 4:26 pm It’s a Social Justice nightmare. Hang the Cops! Wait, they are female! Ah, we’ll hang the patriarch scum who attacked them! Wait, he’s black! Hmm. Rob January 20, 2017 at 4:30 pm “Taser! TASER! Taser! You’ve been tasered!” Just after she tasered him, just in case he didn’t know. Was anyone else reminded of Alan Partridge’s demonstration of how to deal with terrorists in his show at the Travel Tavern? “And move! And fire! And move! And fire!” Rob January 20, 2017 at 4:32 pm She should be restricted to light Diversity enforcement duties only. Unarmed. Dennis the Peasant January 20, 2017 at 5:32 pm Man, if I ever need to play some suckers, I know where to go… I understand police bashing is all the rage these days, but let’s understand what really went down in Bristol. Adunbi knew damn well what was going to end up happening by refusing to cooperate. He didn’t get tased because the police didn’t know what they were doing, or because they were trigger-happy goons, or any other reason having to do with the officers in question. He got tased because that’s what he was gaming the system to get. This isn’t about police brutality, it’s about some half-assed SJW looking to polish his vitae and gain a bit of street cred. I realize most of the commenters here don’t spend much time interacting with Abundi types, but come on, there was nothing subtle about what he was actually doing. Addolff January 20, 2017 at 5:42 pm Some BME people understand reality and should be applauded mightily…. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEvMc-K8XHY Clovis Sangrail January 20, 2017 at 5:51 pm @DtP Mr Adunbi was awarded compensation from Avon and Somerset police in 2009 after he was wrongfully arrested during another incident in Bristol. I refer you to my earlier comments. I don’t even care if he was angling to get tased (which I sincerely doubt). If police officers have that little self-control, knowledge of the SOPs or of the law they deserve to get fired. Moreover, unlike the USA, we are legally entitled to refuse to give our name under these circumstances and have a legitimate expectation that we won’t be tased in the face as a result so I suspect that your “knew what was going to happen” remark is as incorrect as it is inappropriate. If that is your attitude to the police then I’m not surprised that so many American police officers are thugs. MC January 20, 2017 at 5:55 pm Having watched the video, I’m right with community relations man. The police were cowardly arseholes, he was entirely justifiably angry and the only time he got ‘aggressive’ was when they were trying to force their way on to his property. Their tone was typical of the the shitbag state functionary, whose cuntishness is legion, demanding submission from the public. Fuck them. Even if the guy is a dick. Being a dick is not a crime. Bloke in North Dorset January 20, 2017 at 6:00 pm All these video cameras have been a real boon for civil liberties and a problem for the police PR bods. Twenty years ago the Telegraph and the rest of middle income (probably me included, well maybe 30 years ago in my case) would have taken the police at their word when they claimed they were attacked. Clovis Sangrail January 20, 2017 at 6:01 pm @DtP Sorry, I got a little heated there. I think what I meant to say is that we really do have a different policing tradition and associated laws in the UK from those in the USA. A lot of these differences get lost in translation. Jim January 20, 2017 at 6:14 pm “He didn’t get tased because the police didn’t know what they were doing, or because they were trigger-happy goons” Yes he did get tasered because that stupid cow was trigger happy. She was shitting herself, so dropped him, just because she could. The old guy, while wary of interacting with the police (understandably, given his past), was under no obligation to tell them anything. He doesn’t have to, that’s law over here. If they think he’s the person they are looking for they should have arrested him, end of. Not illegally tasered him and then made up a phoney story about how he was ‘fighting’ them. I mean if he’d been some sort of 20 something rude boy blinged up drug dealer type, I’d buy the ‘looking for trouble’ story. But he’s a 63 yo rasta for fucks sake, basically an ageing hippy. 40 years ago in Bristol he’d have been looking for trouble, most likely. Now he just wants to be left alone. See, in the UK the police are ‘supposed’ to be on a par with the public, not some sort of paramilitary force above the law, which is what they are seemingly intent on becoming, and what you obviously have in the US. I hope he takes them to the cleaners (again), and those two (particularly her) lose their jobs and pensions (unlikely I know but one can hope). JuliaM January 20, 2017 at 6:47 pm It’s ‘Can’t they BOTH lose?’ time again..? Dennis the Peasant January 20, 2017 at 6:48 pm But he’s a 63 yo rasta for fucks sake, basically an ageing hippy. That alone made him worthy of being tased, irrespective of whether he was acting like a horse’s ass. Dennis the Peasant January 20, 2017 at 6:55 pm You know, sometimes a keen grasp of the obvious is something of an asset when trying to negotiate one’s way through life. Police tend to be touchy when their authority is challenged. They also tend to heavily armed. Additionally, they have lots of friends who are just like them. And finally, those friends tend to be little more than a quick radio call away. Bad things tend to happen to people who insist on acting stupidly. Jim January 20, 2017 at 7:04 pm “You know, sometimes a keen grasp of the obvious is something of an asset when trying to negotiate one’s way through life.” Thats right friend, look down when the Brown Shirts pass by, don’t look them in the eye, they’re just looking for an excuse, don’t give them one, keep your head down, all this will pass. Sometimes its necessary to behave like an ass to make a serious point – that the police are not armed goons that we should be afraid of, and as citizens we have rights they need to respect. And if we let them get away with ignoring our rights, a police state soon follows. You’re already a long way further down that road in the US than we are, some of us here don’t want to follow you. Clovis Sangrail January 20, 2017 at 7:13 pm @DtP No doubt. Except 1)they tend not to be heavily armed in the UK 2) we still believe in the law rather than naked force here. Naive, I know but the results of collectively insisting on that can be very desirable. I think that’s where a lot of us are coming from. 3) The only reason we don’t still have mandatory ID cards in this country after WW2 is because a dry-cleaner told the police that he was “against this sort of thing” when they demanded his http://www.historyandpolicy.org/policy-papers/papers/identity-cards-in-britain-past-experience-and-policy-implications They did not beat him up as a result. They did take him to court and he was eventually peacefully vindicated (given an absolute discharge). Can you imagine the pair of muppets in the video getting on with that without tasing him, ‘cos I can’t? Mr Ecks January 20, 2017 at 7:15 pm That’s tinpot American tyranny–“If he hadn’ta verbally disrespected us ten of the men wouldn’t have had to kneel on his chest and suffocate him”. Land of the Free –free to kiss a cooper’s arse when ordered. Mr Ecks January 20, 2017 at 7:16 pm Or a copper’s arse even. Clovis Sangrail January 20, 2017 at 7:19 pm Aaaaaaand what Jim said again! Dennis the Peasant January 20, 2017 at 7:35 pm That’s right friend, look down when the Brown Shirts pass by, don’t look them in the eye, they’re just looking for an excuse, don’t give them one, keep your head down, all this will pass. A “keen grasp of obvious” in American English doesn’t translate as “the paranoid fantasy bouncing between my ears” in British English. dcardno January 20, 2017 at 7:58 pm Police Hells Angels tend to be touchy when their authority is challenged… Being well-armed and organized does not confer any rights that they don’t have if unarmed and alone. “To Serve and Protect” doesn’t include criminal assault for “failin’ to respect ma authoriteh” Lionel Ebb January 20, 2017 at 8:11 pm There have been warnings about this sort of thing for some time… http://bit.ly/2au1nWT Ouch. Clovis Sangrail January 20, 2017 at 8:25 pm @DtP “the paranoid fantasy bouncing between my ears” in British English. I think we will have to politely disagree on this one. We don’t think we are being paranoid. Instead we believe, like Lord Goddard in the case I referred to earlier that ” in this country we have always prided ourselves on the good feeling that exists between the police and the public and such action tends to make the people resentful of the acts of the police and inclines them to obstruct the police instead of to assist them” More simply, we do not have a tradition of the fighting Irish in blue with billy clubs and we don’t want one. We still believe, naively no doubt, in Peel’s principle that “the police are the public and the public are the police; the police are only members of the public who are paid to give full-time attention to duties which are incumbent on every citizen in the intent of community welfare”. So Much For Subtlety January 20, 2017 at 8:41 pm Ironman – “Just out of interest, is SMFS a Bristol Bobby?” No but I see you’re still a c*nt. We should help the police when asked. But one of the nice things about the UK is that we do not have to. However culture is hugely influential on how people behave. Murder rates tend to go up with TV watching. So it is no surprise that as the police officers grow up watching a lot of confrontational American police dramas they grow more confrontational as well. And of course there is Rusty’s own brand of political correctness that holds White middle class people are evil so you shouldn’t be polite to them. Bloke in North Dorset January 20, 2017 at 9:19 pm Clovis, Great website, thanks. I shall enjoy browsing it later. I liked this comment from the judge: “Further, in this country we have always prided ourselves on the good feeling that exists between the police and the public and such action tends to make the people resentful of the acts of the police and inclines them to obstruct the police instead of to assist them” Perhaps that should be mandatory reading for the police and MPs. Dennis the Peasant January 20, 2017 at 10:04 pm What a crew. Ya know what, folks? Sometimes it isn’t all about you. Hard to believe, I know. The Bristol police didn’t just pick this rasta jerk-off to hassle just for the fun of it. He fit the description of a wanted man. The article doesn’t state what the wanted man was accused of, but let’s say, just for argument’s sake, that he was accused of a violent rape. What the police are now working against is the possibility that a potentially armed and dangerous felon is standing front of them, and if they don’t get him stopped and identified immediately, he might escape and commit more violent rapes Not one of you here seemed to think of that. So… While Rasta Dude is standing around thinking only about himself and not having the intellect or maturity to even consider that those police might have something really important to do in order to try to keep Rasta Dude’s little shithole corner of Bristol safe, you all stand around and cheer him on. Why? Because none of you seem to have the brains or maturity to consider the possibility that the police might have something more to do that gather in a circle-jerk with you while you navel-gaze and think deep thoughts about how it’s all about you. Just another reminder that in the final analysis, wogs are wogs. You won’t arm yourself to protect yourself, and then you whine like schoolgirls when the folks who do the dirty work you won’t do it in a manner that fails to suit your delicate psyche. Yeah, what a swell lot of citizens you be… Clovis Sangrail January 20, 2017 at 11:29 pm @DtP Oh FFS. I’ve tried repeatedly to be polite and to point out that there’s a big cultural difference here that you’re not getting and you just keep hammering on. You make no attempt to address that difference. No attempt to understand that the cultural and legal differences exist. Just a drip, drip, drip of ill-informed commentary. We are not allowed by the law which you implicitly support to arm ourselves. Many of us would like to and indeed would like to return to the time when the police had to borrow arms from the public but that day is not yet come(back).. In the meantime we look at the 63 year old rasta dude who has already suffered one false arrest by being confused with the felon in question and we think “these cops are a bunch of jerks with the IQ of a couple of fruit flies and the last thing we want to be told is that we asked them to protect us when we didn’t”. Did you attempt to think for thirty seconds about those cultural differences or did you just react to the race-baiting ideologues in American culture? They aren’t here.. We are. We respect well-behaved police but we have a different calculus of pluses and minuses about bad police behaviour and a different and, in my opinion, vastly superior tradition when it comes to the standards we expect them to uphold. Sorry if that offends you. But why don’t you do a bit of research about that context before you open that mouth of yours? I’ve tried to encapsulate the different tradition in a spirit of polite discussion but you just keep throwing the insults. And what’s with the crap about “it’s all about you”? Of course it’s not/ is. We haven’t been tased in the face. We don’t expect to be. We just think nobody should be just because they disrespected a pair of mouth-breathing rent-a-cops. And we think that if those rent-a-cops can do that to some 63 year old rasta then that diminishes us all and (yes, goddamit) makes us all less safe and makes our society closer to a police state. Sorry if that’s insufficiently authoritarian for you. Sorry if that sounds a bit too egalitarian. But in this country we believe in fair dealing.I thought yours did too. Brightside Bob January 20, 2017 at 11:52 pm So much for being a ‘mans best friend’. His mutt just wanders up & down no doubt wondering if he’ll ever get his grub. Protect your master you f*cking dopey hound. Jim January 21, 2017 at 12:04 am “What the police are now working against is the possibility that a potentially armed and dangerous felon is standing front of them, and if they don’t get him stopped and identified immediately, he might escape and commit more violent rapes” Well fucking arrest him then. In this situation they have two options – arrest him because they think he is or may be the criminal they’re looking for, or let him go about his business. Not taser him in the face (the face for fucks sake!) just because he’s not being suitably obeisant to their self-importance. Just watch that video again. See how the female officer escalates the situation far by getting her taser out far too early. He’s just explaining why he’s not giving his name quite calmly, and she’s stood there with the taser out like he’s threatening her with a knife. Once that taser comes out its pretty much guaranteed she’s going to use it come what may, because if she doesn’t she looks like a twat, and we can’t have the mighty police looking like twats now can we? So someone has to cop it in the face, just to save hers. I would have zero sympathy for the bloke if they’d cuffed him and dragged him down the cop shop, to find out if he was the person they were looking for. That would have been entirely reasonable, and legal, in the situation. If they’d tried to arrest him and he’d resisted and then he’d got tasered he’d still have deserved it. But just to taser him with no warning, no attempt to arrest him first, is outright assault, and if there is any justice they’ll both be charged with it. They won’t be because the police are above the law, sadly. The annoying thing is that this will be taken as evidence ‘police racism’ when its nothing of the sort. That old chap was black, but he could have been any colour of skin and they’d have behaved the same because the problem isn’t racial discrimination, its bully boy behaviour by the police to ALL citizens that is the real problem, and one that needs addressing urgently. So Much For Subtlety January 21, 2017 at 12:18 am Dennis the Peasant – “Just another reminder that in the final analysis, wogs are wogs. You won’t arm yourself to protect yourself, and then you whine like schoolgirls when the folks who do the dirty work you won’t do it in a manner that fails to suit your delicate psyche. ” Come on Denis. Look, I am a fan. I loved your blog. Read it regularly. But you can do better than this. I mean, really? Are you reduced to trolling British sites looking for fights to pick? It is like finding Muhammad Ali in a downtown dive, drunk and unshaved, being hustled by poor sharks. DocBud January 21, 2017 at 12:25 am They always charge their victims. Back in 1978 with me, it was in response to a complaint by me following assault by a copper. They charged me (after establishing I was on my own and had no witnesses) with assaulting a police officer, causing a public disturbance, resisting arrest and escaping custody, and what’s more they did have a witness, a copper who wasn’t there saw it all, but they would drop the charges if I’d drop my complaint. The inspector who came to my house knew exactly what was going on. The lesson for me was that a copper can assault you and he, together with colleagues and senior management, will happily trump up charges against you and if necessary perjure themselves rather than see one of their own punished for breaking the law. Ever since then I have hated the bastards. I firmly believe that the majority of coppers believe that the police force is primarily for their benefit. It has a secondary function to serve the government. Any benefit the public get is an unintended by product of the other two functions. john77 January 21, 2017 at 12:48 am @ Dennis the peasant About half my lifetime ago a police officer came up to me in the small hours of the morning (when the King Edward Street GPO still had a 3 am collection) and described my very recent behaviour which he found suspicious. So I explained it and showed him the letters that I was about to post – and he apologised for detaining me*! That is the standard that we (used to) expect of police officers. *he didn’t say “while I was about my lawful business” – that was taken as read Bloke in NZ 2 January 21, 2017 at 12:53 am I am pretty sure its a common law requires you to state name and occupation to a constable if required and in a public place. tomo January 21, 2017 at 1:34 am A&S plod have a long term cultural problem dealing with Afro-Caribbean folk in Brissle. Not that long ago St Pauls was a seriously no-go area for plod and there were some seriously bad dudes from Jamaica in residence. This I think still influences the force’s attitude towards guys like this – constables are apprehensive – some are intimidated and that should play into a cautious, informed approach. More detail will out – but if this guy was mistaken for a wanted man (I note that what the other fellow was actually wanted for – seems to be being left out at the moment…) – somebody who knew the bloke in question should’ve been sent out. The police can’t be omniscient but in this case it looks like they screwed up. Screwing up and over-reacting is something that Avon & Somerset have a bit of a track record of doing in Bristol via a large dollop of ignorance and an appetite for confrontation. If this isn’t handled carefully and plod nabobs stick their chests out and try to defend it (versus dispassionate , transparent investigation) – all it could well result in some extended unpleasantness. Avon & Somerset Constabulary do not – on a corporate level have a blemish free record and seem to have difficulty learning from their mistakes. Yep – if they try to brass it out without an actually transparent investigation – there will be trouble – as surely as night follows day. Jim January 21, 2017 at 1:47 am “I am pretty sure its a common law requires you to state name and occupation to a constable if required and in a public place.” Not true in the UK. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/libertycentral/2010/jun/09/what-information-am-i-obliged-to-give-to-a-policeman Please note that unless these officers stopped this man under the ‘stop and search’ powers, and followed the correct procedures for that, then they have no statutory right to detain him or demand his name, other than to formally arrest him. Even if they did stop him under ‘stop and search’ he is still not required to give his name, unless they are reporting him for an offence. During a stop and search what information will the police ask for? The police officer will ask for your name and address and date of birth. You do not have to give this information if you don’t want to, unless the police officer says they are reporting you for an offence. From Met Police website JuliaM January 21, 2017 at 8:20 am Jim: “Well fucking arrest him then. In this situation they have two options – arrest him because they think he is or may be the criminal they’re looking for, or let him go about his business. Not taser him in the face…” Well, when you insist on recruiting 5ft nothing females for ‘diversity’, what else are they going to do? Listen to her – she has no authority, no commanding presence, nothing at all, except the Taser. So of course, she uses it. JuliaM January 21, 2017 at 8:24 am DtP: “Police tend to be touchy when their authority is challenged.” Watch the video again. Authority is precisely what they lack. Instead, they have weapons. Tim Newman January 21, 2017 at 9:33 am Some fine commentary from Clovis and Jim on this thread. Tim Newman January 21, 2017 at 9:35 am Watch the video again. Authority is precisely what they lack. Instead, they have weapons. Ooooh, that’s a superb line. JuliaM January 21, 2017 at 9:50 am It’s the truth. I’m shocked at how appallingly they come across as police officers – ‘We think you might be XX who is wanted, we think…’ Well, is he wanted, or not? They are incompetent and should immediately be sacked. Regardless of whether the bloke’s an arse about this (he is). Dennis the Peasant January 21, 2017 at 2:08 pm Clovis – As someone who has spent the last 25 years working extensively in African-American communities, as well as African immigrant communities, I’m well aware of many of the cultural differences that exist between those communities and the larger community that one could label “white America”. Or whatever. But after 25 years of working in those communities, I’ve come to the conclusion that excusing bad behavior in the name of cultural differences is as patronizing as it is racist. I refuse to do it. And truth be told, my African-American and African immigrant clients and associates (law abiding to a “t”) love me for it. Lots of AA and AI don’t want anything to do with the likes of rasta dude or his behavior, and often find his type to be the bane of their existence. Being a citizen carries certain responsibilities. One of them is to cooperate with the authorities at the point of contact. Rasta dude decided to refuse his responsibility as a citizen and all else followed. That’s on him, not the police. Dennis the Peasant January 21, 2017 at 2:12 pm About half my lifetime ago a police officer came up to me in the small hours of the morning (when the King Edward Street GPO still had a 3 am collection) and described my very recent behaviour which he found suspicious. So I explained it and showed him the letters that I was about to post – and he apologised for detaining me*! The fact that you offered the policeman your full cooperation in a polite manner probably had something to do with the outcome. Funny how that works. In any event, a triumph of common sense and good citizenship on your part. Dennis the Peasant January 21, 2017 at 2:15 pm Come on Dennis. Look, I am a fan. I loved your blog. Read it regularly. But you can do better than this. I mean, really? Are you reduced to trolling British sites looking for fights to pick? You’re being overly sentimental about my old blog. Nothing’s changed about the way I conduct myself on the internet. When I see stupid, I attack it. Jim January 21, 2017 at 2:19 pm Its interesting that it appears the woman is the superior officer in the pair, because the old dude was talking to the male officer and saying ‘your sergeant is going to taser me’. If you watch the footage the male officer looks like the person in charge, doing his best to calm things down and discuss the situation rationally with the suspect face to face, while all the female officer can do us stand well back with her taser pointed at the suspect, and shout at him. I bet the male officer wished he could tell the stupid cow to put the taser away and fuck off out of it, it (and she) was only making matters worse. Jim January 21, 2017 at 2:30 pm “Being a citizen carries certain responsibilities. One of them is to cooperate with the authorities at the point of contact.” Bullshit. Your only responsibility as a citizen is to obey the law, a responsibility incidentally that lies on the authorities as well, probably more so. In this case he was entirely within his legal rights as a citizen to refuse to give his details. The police then should have either arrested him or let him go on his way. Not kept hassling him with no legal authority and then illegally assaulted him. DocBud January 21, 2017 at 2:47 pm Absolutely, Jim. The law doesn’t require UK citizens to provide their name to the filth and we should defend this right. My experience of the police, and that of my family, none of whom has a criminal conviction, is that the police will make up the law as they go along. A copper told me once that if I didn’t give him my name he would arrest me for obstructing a police officer. When I told the snotty piece of shit to go for his life as I could do with the damages, he backed down. You can be the most law abiding person on the planet, but coppers are not and never will be your friends. I accept that there is the odd, rare decent copper, but if you assume all coppers are bastards you’ll probably never be disappointed. Tel January 21, 2017 at 3:11 pm Dennis, the guy is no doubt a turd, and his community a bunch of a-holes, but there was absolutely no call for tasering him. Got to agree with those who pointed out the total lack of authority the hopeless female police officer had. You can’t command respect with someone like her in uniform. Rob January 21, 2017 at 5:13 pm Not illegally tasered him and then made up a phoney story about how he was ‘fighting’ them. The tasering is one thing. They should definitely be sacked for lying about the assault to cover themselves. Just brazen lying. Theophrastus January 21, 2017 at 5:14 pm Tasering him was excessive. But the rasta did start pointing aggressively at the police officers and he raised his voice, which was very imprudent in the circumstances. Clovis Sangrail January 21, 2017 at 7:00 pm @DtP Thank you for toning down the invective. ” I’m well aware of many of the cultural differences that exist between those communities and the larger community that one could label “white America”.” However, you are still reading with your prejudices. I made no mention of the cultural difference between ratsafarians and the majority white British, nor did I intend to refer to that distinction. I do not believe it should be one law for British rastafarians and another for British whites. far from it. Instead I was referring to the large legal/cultural difference between the UK and the US. The Robert Peel quote I gave you is not from some pious Victorian with but a passing relevance to the police. Rather, it is from the founder of the British police force. He’s the source of the affectionate name “bobbies”. And he set out the cultural and legal principles under which British police were to operate. This was trying to show how the tradition and legal setting differs between the two countries. Pingback: British Policiing | White Sun of the Desert Bloke in North Dorset January 21, 2017 at 11:01 pm “Tasering him was excessive. But the rasta did start pointing aggressively at the police officers and he raised his voice, which was very imprudent in the circumstances.” And that is exactly the sort of situation that the police should be trained to defuse without resort to weapons. Replace taser with gun and we’re quickly descending into the worst aspects of US life. JuliaM January 22, 2017 at 6:55 am @BiND: Give little Ms kiddy-cop a real gun? My, my, that’d be a sight to see… monoi January 23, 2017 at 4:04 pm Any excuses those 2 idiots could have was cancelled by them issuing bogus charges. That is assault compounded by abuse of power. We all deal sufficiently often with these jobsworths to know exactly that but for the grace of god. Edward January 23, 2017 at 8:43 pm @Dennis the Peasant In the words of the late, great JsubD… Fuck off, slaver. Leave a Reply Cancel replyYour email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *Comment Name * Email * Website Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment.