Timmy on the Swansea Lagoon project report

The Government should throw this report back at Hendry and tell him to do it again. And for God’s Sake Man, get it right next time. We want to know the costs of the Swansea Lagoon, not how infinitesimally more expensive it is than other moonbeam to cucumber operations.

12 thoughts on “Timmy on the Swansea Lagoon project report”

  1. It’s extraordinary how greenies prefer actual damage to the environment(this boondoggle and offshore windfarms), spoiling of the few wild places left to us (windfarms) and killing wildlife(tidal,wind and big solar power) to the generation of plant food.

  2. Apart from the animated picture on their website everything else about this Welsh eco-antic stinks of dead fish.

    “Could be the cheapest electric in the UK”. Could? Could? Is that what goes in business plans for investors to read these days? Give us yer money cos it might work?

    “Only needs support at the same level as the nuclear industry which has been established for sixty years”. Fucked up by the scummy state for sixty years more like. I think it was the late, great Dr Peter Beckmann who said that an elephant is a mouse built to govt specifications. And it was the nuclear industry he was speaking about.If your plan is that screwed before you even start what is the end product going to be like?

    It would probably be cheaper to build the seawall out of paper mache using banknotes. If the new nasty plastic fivers are used it might even be waterproof. Which seems much more than the plans are.

  3. So Much For Subtlety

    If they even try to f**k up a significant environmental site with a tidal barrage, I am going to join the smelly little hippies in protest. Are they insane? Do they have any idea what that would do to bird nesting sites? Migration paths?

    Still, if they do build it and they want jobs, I suggest they employ half of Wales filling up buckets, carrying them over to the other side of the hill and dumping them in the sea. What’s the downside to that?

  4. Clearly they are insane. Hopefully if they go ahead this will come back to bite them in the bum, much as the Green heating scandal has done in Northern Ireland.

    Apart from the fact it is an expensive solution to a non-existent problem that will cause huge environmental damage I have other observations. This will only generate power when the tide is in the right state. Someone will know more about this than me, but surely tides can come in at night when no-one needs the power. Even if they build a ring of them around the Welsh coast I assume the variation in tide times is relatively small for such an area, so they could all be generating where there is no demand.

    Have they considered the biggest tides, and are they sure they won’t damage the turbines. How is maintenance done, and how often does it need to be done?

  5. IIRC the cost per *thingy, is around 130p, compared with around 92p for Hinkley, itself apparently vastly more expensive than alternatives.

    *Not sure of the unit, but it is the comparison which matters.

  6. Anyone who doesn’t already think this proposal is insane should have a read of this excellent post:


    Remember the wind farm proponents claiming that “The wind always blows somewhere” – well It doesn’t. And much the same applies to tides. Roger Andrews does a very good job of showing how even a coast-wide network of tidal barrages won’t provide a reliable, steady output.

  7. From the comments of the article linked to by Dave Ward above.

    A commenter says this brilliance:

    “I prefer the following analogy.

    You are a busy company that does things. Let’s say you process and input data on computers. Most of your costs are staff costs plus the cost of the buildings and the computer equipment and the electricity.

    One day a politician phones you up and says ‘look, there are loads of people out there who will actually work for nothing, do you want to employ them on that basis?’

    ‘Sounds too good to be true, what’s the catch?’

    ‘Well sometimes they won’t turn up, and they wont actually do much when they do’

    ‘Oh… but that’s OK – if I dont need them they can stay at home ‘

    ‘Er no, the condition of their being government subsidised is that when they do turn up you have to use them’

    ‘Well ok, but what happens to my permanent staff?’

    ‘Oh put them on zero hours contracts- so you can tell them not to turn up instead’.

    ‘well that’s all very well, but they won’t like it, and they will charge more anyway – they still need to make a living you know: I am not sure these free workers are going to save me any money. Hang on you said that I have to take them on when they do turn up for work, and they aren’t very productive?’

    ‘That’s right’

    ‘But that means I will need more office space and more computers all lying idle just in case they DO turn up.’

    ‘That’s right’

    ‘And in fact there could e a time when I need 10 times as much office space and computers, and I have no permanent staff, just very expensive zero hours contractors and there freeloading interns?’

    ‘That right’

    ‘Matey, this isn’t profit, this is cost all the way. I thought you said that their labour was free?’

    ‘Well it is free – you just have to pay for all the other stuff you need to take advantage of the freeness’.

    ‘Do you mind if I don’t?’

    ‘Er, yes, in fact we mind very much. In fact you are going to be forced to take them on, because that’s part of our ‘full employment initiative”

    ‘I think I will move to another country’”

  8. Sounds like a government run airline I once dealt with, had someone there tell me the reason they wanted detailed consumables invoiced (every nut,bolt and washer, seal, etc. to be billed separately) instead of agreeing a standard charge like most customers was that the government kept sending them people to employ and they had to find something for them to do.

  9. @Ian Reid
    surely tides can come in at night when no-one needs the power

    High tides occur (roughly speaking) when the moon is overhead and when it’s over the opposite side of the earth. So every 12.5 hrs or so (because when the earth has rotated once, the moon has moved round 1/29 of its monthly orbit, so there’s nearly an hour’s worth of catching up to do).

  10. I just had a look at Lincs Wind Farm Limited accounts because Centrica a.k.a British Gas is selling 50% to “The Green Bank” and I thought “isn’t “The Green Bank” supposed to invest in building new tree-friendly stuff, not just stuff already there”.
    So, Note 29 says “sales of electricity represent lass than 30% of the company’s revenue” which comprises sales of electricity and Renewable Operating Certificates – so the ROC are worth *more than twice as much as the electricity*. Then we find from Note 5 that Transmission costs to the shore eat up more than half the revenue from selling electricity so ROC are more than four times the net value of the electricity generated and that the depreciation charge on the fixed assets is roughly one-and-a-third times the gross value, approaching three times the net value of the electricity generated.
    So without the ROC the company would lose more than £1 for every £ it earned from producing electricity *before* the interest costs – after interest (but excluding the unexplained “other expenses”) the loss was around £4 per £ of electricity generated.
    Let’s ignore interest – it’s only money – what this tells us is that the windfarm will never generate enough electricity to pay for even half of its construction cost.

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