There’re just too many people who don’t want to believe realityJune 26, 2017 Tim WorstallTimmy Elsewhere26 CommentsAs I’ve Been Saying – Seattle’s Move To $15 Minimum Wage Kills Jobs, Lowers Low Incomes previousNope, he’s still not got it, has he?nextAmazingly, this result does not come from Britain 26 thoughts on “There’re just too many people who don’t want to believe reality” BigFire June 26, 2017 at 5:01 pm McDonald got a big boost to their stock price when it was reported that they’re heavily invested in getting kiosk into United States restaurants. Jim June 26, 2017 at 5:32 pm I can’t read that article on forbes, it won’t let me on, it keeps wittering on about adblock detected or some such nonsense, which as far as I know I haven’t actually got……….. jgh June 26, 2017 at 6:03 pm I could have told them that. Ten years ago when I was on a fixed monthly £1200 my income was £15,000pa. Now I’m on £25 an hour, but average maybe five or six hours a week, paid by the hour. Some weeks it’s not worth me accepting a job as I lose JSA pound for pound down to £10 and the transport costs eats up more than the excluded tenner. PJF June 26, 2017 at 6:13 pm Jim, that’s ironic. I do have an ad blocker and the site lets me in. Try just waiting on the page for 30 seconds or so. abacab June 26, 2017 at 6:28 pm And of course the Left does its typical thing of blaming “corporate greed” for what is the inevitable outcome of conventional economics. Do they not understand that in a lot of business employing min wage labour that the margins are often waffer-thin? Don’t answer that……. dearieme June 26, 2017 at 7:15 pm “Do they not understand that in a lot of business employing min wage labour that the margins are often waffer-thin?” There was a plonker who used to visit here who revealed that he believed that restaurateurs made a 30% margin. Bongo June 26, 2017 at 7:37 pm Off topic, and talking of blocking technology, is there any software than can filter out women sports results. I frequently visit worldrugby.org and the results pages displays results for both sexes. Similarly BBC tennis pages seem to think Johanna Konta is of equal interest as Dan Evans. I’ve no problem with women’s results being published where they compete separately, I just want some add-on which makes me unaware they exist. abacab June 26, 2017 at 7:55 pm “Do they not understand that in a lot of business employing min wage labour that the margins are often waffer-thin?” There was a plonker who used to visit here who revealed that he believed that restaurateurs made a 30% margin. Lemme guess – he looked at the raw margin on both wet (70%ish) and dry (a lot less) and it came out at 30%… before staffing costs? (have worked in a pub, and my brother-in-law is a budding restaurateur whose last venture collapsed when his business partner drank the waffer thin margin and didn’t pay suppliers, then screwed him over. Childhood friend from a rich new money family who didn’t understand money as a result.). bloke in spain June 26, 2017 at 8:23 pm One thing’s for sure. These’ll be the same people who complain about the prices at places employ minimum wage workers. Liberal Yank June 26, 2017 at 8:41 pm I am still reading links so I don’t have many comments yet. Right now I am looking to determine how the decline in retail at brick and mortar joints was accounted for. I am also looking for how many jobs moved just outside of the city line. I’m sure, as I go, I’ll find more factors, outside of minimum wage increases, that affect the study results. Opera works well with Forbes and most of the other sites that have mess with with ad blockers. Martin June 26, 2017 at 8:41 pm Could possibly see a 30% margin – can sometimes see figures where the owner and partner (often husband and wife) work full time in the place and take their money from the profits. So in reality you knock £40k – £60k off the profits to get actual profits. At which point can find the business even runs at a loss overall. Have lost count of the number of times have heard restaurant directors complain about the business making money but suddenly going under as cannot pay the CT bill – and then find out they have a £50k+ overdrawn directors loan account (DLA) which the insolvency practitioner is chasing them for personally (after all its money that belongs to the business). Have come across one couple who managed to run up an overdrawn DLA of over a quarter million pounds in under 10 years on what they claimed was a very profitable restaurant. Choice between paying most of it back, declaring rest as income, paying none back and declaring all as income etc And by declaring the income the taxman wants his money from the income… dearieme June 26, 2017 at 8:46 pm “Lemme guess – he looked at the raw margin on both wet (70%ish) and dry (a lot less) and it came out at 30%… before staffing costs?” Oh I don’t suppose he did a calculation. Lefty, you see. They just “know” stuff. Andrew M June 26, 2017 at 8:51 pm One side-effect is that low-skilled workers will be less likely to move to Seattle in the first place, because they’ll have heard that it’s hard to get work there. This may be on purpose. Low-skilled workers contribute less in tax, they (and their kids) might be more predisposed to crime, etc. The city would be glad not to have such people. Thomas Fuller June 26, 2017 at 9:35 pm ~ Forbes No problems with Firefox 54.0 for Mac with both Adblock+ and uBlock Origin installed — got straight in, read the article in Reader View, v. interesting it is too. [rant] If some ads didn’t introduce malware then adblockers would indeed be unreasonable, given how much content is funded, but they do so they aren’t. [/rant] Tel June 26, 2017 at 10:10 pm Once machines come in the human jobs rarely come back. Occasionally they do when the machines just can’t do the job right. But at McDonalds those self-serve kiosks are here to stay, they’re so much better than a human cashier. Tel June 26, 2017 at 10:19 pm Christ, just opened a browser without Adblock to read Tim’s article. Never again. Are there really people around these days who don’t use an adblocker? The internet seems unusable without them now. Lakanal June 26, 2017 at 10:44 pm How far we (and, sadly, the Tories) have drifted from reality. The minimum wage is $£¥ 0, of course. SadButMadLad June 26, 2017 at 10:50 pm OT, I’ve got the perfect ad blocker – I ignore the ads. 🙂 Liberal Yank June 27, 2017 at 12:52 am I have finished my first read of the work and must agree with Saez. Based on the published information it does appear that some of the work has shifted just outside of the city limit. The recent major decline of retail is not addressed at all. There are also other factors, that I didn’t consider before reading the paper, that could cause the drop in hours. I’m not trying to claim that raising minimum wages doesn’t cause job losses. Instead, I don’t believe that this paper has adequately accounted for the various factors that have caused job losses. The good news is that many of those factors were at least acknowledged. Anti-ad blocker Note: The LA Times appears to work well with the Opera/uBlock combination. I probably would have checked before, but, there usually isn’t anything in the LA Times that was worth my time to check. abacab June 27, 2017 at 5:21 am “Oh I don’t suppose he did a calculation. Lefty, you see. They just “know” stuff.” Yeah, silly me being an engineer and a figures person. File under: “the poor are getting poorer” (not according to the stats). “below-subsistence wages in Asian factories” (oh, so where are the millions of starvation deaths in Asian factories then from people who can’t afford to eat, cos that’s what “below subsistence” means?) “Austerity is literally killing tens of thousands in the UK” (erm, where’s the evidence of this?) Geoff Taylor June 27, 2017 at 6:40 am Yet there are folks saying “If a business can’t afford to pay a living wage then they shouldn’t be in business”. Fools. jgh June 27, 2017 at 10:27 am Well, a minimum wage is a legally mandated overhead, so if a business can’t afford to pay a minimum wage it won’t remain in business. Martin June 27, 2017 at 11:39 am jgh – if a business cannot afford to pay a minimum wage then it doesn’t take on staff. Instead using freelancers and directors. Andrew M June 27, 2017 at 3:32 pm Martin – Or it hires family members, which is how ethnic restaurants survive. BobRocket June 27, 2017 at 10:42 pm I have no doubt that raising the minimum wage does indeed have the effects you say but it also drives the need to automate (Maccy D robots). Once a process is automated and the capital costs have been repaid the individual products become cheaper for the end consumer (everybody benefits from industrialisation). If, due to a lack of hours worked, my net income has halved over a decade but the amount of stuff I can buy for that half-wage has quadrupled then I’m all the richer for it. Tim Newman June 28, 2017 at 12:47 am There was a plonker who used to visit here who revealed that he believed that restaurateurs made a 30% margin. That was Dave. He also thought robots would soon be building factories. Leave a Reply Cancel replyYour email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *Comment Name * Email * Website Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment.