Dear Lord, shouldn’t an accountant know this?

First some simple facts have to be understood. The UK government requires that you make payment of your tax in pounds sterling. Nothing else will do.

Well, no, not really:

Q. Which tax and National Insurance liabilities can I pay in euro?
A. You can pay any tax or National Insurance liability in euro, and we will convert the payments into sterling.

You can pay by:

Bacs Direct Credit, Internet or Telephone banking
Euro denominated cheque
Euro notes (HMRC offices at Ports and Airports only)
You can find further details about euro payment procedures in the area specific guides within the Paying HMRC section of this website.

The rest of the theory rather falls down at that point.

28 thoughts on “Dear Lord, shouldn’t an accountant know this?”

  1. Not only Murphy, but the whole of MMT which relies on the concept of the government demanding tax payment in the fiat currency it has issued in order to make that fiat currency worth something.

  2. He’s got his bollox the wrong way round, hasn’t he? It’s that it must be accepted to pay your taxes defines a national currency, not the currency defines the nation.

  3. I always found the concept that being required to pay taxes in the nation’s currency gives that currency value rather convincing.

  4. Actually re reading this it occcurs to me as long as taxes are dominated in GBP does it really make a difference if they are paid in euro and then converted into GBP by the government? You’re still paying GBP in the end, no?

  5. The shuttling back and forth of the small amount of sterling reserves in the payments system is a mechanism facilitating a process. The process is the taxing and spending of commercial bank deposits. Taxes are paid in bank deposits, and government spending results in the recipient having more deposits.

  6. Doesn’t the State accept works of art and property etc as payment for some taxes, inheritance ones for certain? I bet they’d take gold as well if someone had a hefty enough bill to make it worth their while accepting it.

  7. Like a lot of professions it has specialisations, Murphy is the only accountant I’ve met that claims to be a master/expert of them all and thinks that having studied them for a couple of weeks during training/certification and passed an exam is all you need.
    Sometime ago tried to engage him regarding some comments relating to manufacturing, management accounting and US GAAP v IFRS and was just dismissed with he knows everything and my real world experience and knowledge amounted to nothing and as I didn’t agree with him I must be wrong anyway etc.

  8. I’ve sometimes wondered why Spud stopped being an accountant. I think I can see why now. That is, if he ever really was one.

  9. “BniC

    Like a lot of professions it has specialisations, Murphy is the only accountant I’ve met that claims to be a master/expert of them all”

    Worse still are his claims to be a tax ‘expert’. Accountants spend most of their time learning about accounts. They generally know just enough tax to get by.

    I spent 3 1/2 years learning nothing but tax before becoming a Grade 7 HMIT Tax Inspector. I followed that with a further 6 1/2 years in HMIT and up to now 19 years in private practice. All and everything I do is tax. And I cheerfully admit I know naff all about VAT and even less about accounting.

    And that twat Murphy still claims he is right ‘just because’ when I point out he is wrong – in my various guises as each is banned as soon as it becomes clear that I know far more than he does.

  10. I went through Ely by train this weekend Edinburgh to Norfolk. It’s a nice little place. One day I may stop off and take a visit to the centre and perhaps swing a detour to the unimpressive end terrace for a gander

  11. BraveFart

    I recall that Murphy was all in favour of unions protesting outside private residences so perhaps you could take a megaphone with you after a trip to a local pub?

  12. Surely the “tax and National Insurance liabilities” would always be denominated in sterling, though? Hypothetically what would happen if say the two currencies were used side by side?

  13. What difference does the denomination make?

    If I had a shop in Southampton that showed my prices in US dollars but I only accepted sterling for payment, what currency would you be paying in?

  14. I sneeze in threes

    The debt is only extinguished when the euros have been sold for sterling (by UK Gov) and that amount is sufficient to cover the debt, if the rate moves against you between sending the money and conversion then you still owe. In common parlance that does sound like debts still need to be paid (settled) in sterling. From the next section on Tim’s link.

    “Q. What happens if the converted amount is either too much or too little?

    A. The rate of exchange between sterling and the euro can vary many times during the same day, as with any other currency. The exchange rate used is the one in force when your payment is presented by the clearing bank. If the rate used for converting euro into sterling leaves a shortfall, you may have to pay the difference. If you overpay, any repayment arising will be made to you in sterling.

    Although you cannot totally eliminate the risk of shortfall or overpayment, you can minimise it by using Bacs Direct Credit, Internet or Telephone banking or CHAPS rather than cheque. All of these methods reduce the time it takes for the payment to be cleared through the banking system.”

  15. “First some simple facts have to be understood”

    Says Dicky Tayter who couldn’t recognise a “simple fact” if it hit him in the face. For him, “simple fact” is a rhetorical device to convince his devoted brown-nosers.

  16. One Dicky Tayter posted five comments on the relevant thread. El Cuntissimo approved them, then they vanished…

  17. When you have organised your income in tax free grants for political lobbying such simple facts can easily elude you.

  18. @ Rob?

    Does anyone have evidence that he is getting paid through tax free grants, and more so that he organised it this way specifically? If so, the hypocrisy would be staggering. There might be a few interested people if it were the case.

  19. I have to ask Tim the question as to whether it is worth lifting his self – imposed ban on directly linking to TRUK? The article itself is further proof of the guy’s mental instability. It’s only the Proto Pyongyangites in the Gyardian and BBC that give him any exposure in the mainstream media – he is just hopeless.

    ‘So does government tax and spend? No, and it never has. Governments with their own currencies always spend and then tax.

    Realising that is staggeringly important.

    First it means that you do not need tax to spend.

    Second, it means that the amount of tax you can collect is largely dependent on the amount of spending a government undertakes, which is the reverse of normal logic. So if you want to answer the question “where does the money come from to pay for this?” the answer becomes ” from out of what’s just been spent.”’

    I mean What the actual f%#k – this would fail GCSE? It’s a view I would think simplistic in a first year undergrad – if ever there was proof that the higher education sector in the UK is massively over supplied this is it….

  20. Dongguan John,
    Apologies, somehow I missed that you had alread made the same point.

    Presumably being able to pay in euros is a result of eu pressure, but it makes no sense. If all they’re going to do is nip down the bureau de change they might as well accept any convertible currency.

    You’re not really paying tax in pounds or euros unless they send you a bill that specifically says GBP1000 or EUR1110.

  21. @Lockers

    I’m told he packed it in due to a negligence claim against him / his former firm. But I have no way of confirming this.

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