Revolutions and their own

Sixty-year-old woman is shoved to the ground as fists fly in a punch-up between transgender activists and their extreme feminist rivals in Hyde Park
Trans-Exclusionary Radical Feminists clashed with their enemies Trans Activists
Maria MacLachlan was attacked at Speakers’ Corner in London’s Hyde Park
The 60-year-old mother-of-two was left shaken and the police are investigating

Leave them to get on with it say I. I assume that those just starting their hormone treatment will have the heavier punches.

25 thoughts on “Revolutions and their own”

  1. “The 60-year-old mother-of-two”

    We have no idea what side she/he/they/xe might have been on from that description.

  2. Normally the police don’t bother when the freaks attack normal people, but this is freak-on-freak so they’ve got the whole force out on this one.

    Have they declared it at Hate Crime yet?

  3. Last year I remember reading a prediction that 2017 would be the war of trannies against feminists. Bring on the popcorn.

  4. Authoritarians are all the same.

    If an anti-transgender pro-feminist authoritarian punches an anti-transphobe pro-feminist authoritarian, that’s OK. But if an anti-transphobe pro-feminist authoritarian punches an anti-transgender anti-feminist authoritarian, that’s… what?

    If people start beating up *all* the transphobes, bearing in mind vivid memories of the transphobes previously beating up the transgender, should we “leave you to it”?

  5. MTF Trannies are stronger than women even if debollocked and on hormones. Being the weaker sex is something they will never experience while playing gender charades.

  6. @NiV
    Bearing in mind “transphobes” – peeps not overly sympathetic to those pretending to be members of the opposite sex & demanding they go along with the pretence – are likely in the overwhelming majority, it’s hard to see said transphobes have much to worry about

  7. “Bearing in mind “transphobes” – peeps not overly sympathetic to those pretending to be members of the opposite sex & demanding they go along with the pretence – are likely in the overwhelming majority, it’s hard to see said transphobes have much to worry about”

    I think as of a couple of years ago, surveys said about 50% of the UK population were broadly supportive, 30% didn’t care, and 20% were against it.

    That’s why they got included in the Sexual Equality Act, and why our elected representatives – always with an eye out to which way the political wind is blowing – made discrimination against the trangender illegal. But discrimination against transphobes is not only allowed, but arguably compulsory. You can be fired for it. You can be refused a job because of it. Your business can be shut down and yourself prosecuted for it.

    Homophobes and transphobes are now seen as the social deviants to be excluded from society. Ask the racists – they’ll tell you how quickly society can turn against you.

  8. Knowing Me, Knowing Steve

    MC – that sounds like something I’d say.

    NiV – I reckon the Victim Express now looks like one of them trains in India with all the passengers clinging to the roof and sides. I further reckon it’s headed over a cliff.

    “Oh, no!” said the Differently Healthy Controller.

    You’re up against two fundamental problems here: cost/benefits distribution and the Squick! effect.

    So, we could afford to patronise a small group of minorities for as long as they were indeed small minorities and thus the costs of doing so in terms of time and trouble to the normies was negligible. But the grievance train’s dangerously overloaded now and the general public is pretty tired of being called racistsexisthomeopaths and lectured on the plight of trans-disabled genderspazzed Baha’i owl-fuckers or whatever.

    The Squick! effect is even worse for your cause tho. The difference between, say, the gays, the blacks, and the transsexualists is that the former have the advantage of not being demonstrably insane creatures from the Bloody Hell Crevasse, which is much like the Uncanny Valley but with more projectile vomit than Glasgow town centre on a Saturday night.

    Nobody who isn’t an insane racist or deranged house-fearer minds, say, Trevor MacDonald or Elton John. A burly 6’2″ blokette with makeup slathered over his stubble who wants to follow your wife into the toilet and tell your kids about the joys of shoving a pipe of Pringles into his fancy new groin-gash to stop it healing is, shall we say, a tougher sell.

    Steve’s prognosis is that we’ve already passed Peak Pandering, and in the not too distant we’ll look back on World War T in much the same way we now regard 1970’s efforts to mainstream paedophilia.

  9. “I reckon the Victim Express now looks like one of them trains in India with all the passengers clinging to the roof and sides. I further reckon it’s headed over a cliff.”

    You want to get off, and stop complaining about being victims of SJWs sand their politically correct persecutions?

    “So, we could afford to patronise a small group of minorities for as long as they were indeed small minorities and thus the costs of doing so in terms of time and trouble to the normies was negligible.”

    You’re missing the point. Everyone is in *lots* of different minorities. Most of them are not even an issue – left-handed corkscrew owners are not ‘a thing’, and it is an entirely cost-free proposition for us not to persecute them. But there are a small number of minorities that society does persecute – at considerable cost to everyone involved – because mankind has a streak of evil that makes people think they have the right and duty to police how other people are allowed to live, what they’re allowed to say, what opinions they’re allowed to hold, what books they’re allowed to read, or what they’re allwed to see on TV or the internet, etc. The Mary Whitehouse faction, in other words.

    The particular minorities targeted change from time to time. Up until recently, homosexuals and transgenders were targeted. Before that it was blacks. Before that it was Jews. Drinkers during Prohibition. Before that it was heretics and atheists. Or the endless alternation of protestant/catholic in the religious wars. Or dozens more.

    Well, it’s moving on again, and this time homosexuals are “in” and homophobes are “out”. You don’t get to change that – it’s already too late. But you can still have a say in how you think society ought to treat its dissentients. Do you operate the Harm Principle – that society has no right to persecute *any* minority except to prevent harm? Or are you going to continue to argue that “It’s OK if *we* do it”?

    “The Squick! effect is even worse for your cause tho. The difference between, say, the gays, the blacks, and the transsexualists is that the former have the advantage of not being demonstrably insane creatures from the Bloody Hell Crevasse, which is much like the Uncanny Valley but with more projectile vomit than Glasgow town centre on a Saturday night.”

    You’re assuming that what disgusts you disgusts everyone. But everyone has different tastes, and tastes change. There was a time when Elton John would indeed have been disgusting, but that’s changed. There will come a time when transphobes will be widely perceived as genuinely disgusting.

    “A burly 6’2″ blokette with makeup slathered over his stubble who wants to follow your wife into the toilet […] is, shall we say, a tougher sell.”

    Not in the slightest. Eddie Izzard is very popular. So was Dame Edna Everidge (although not TG, the appearance is the issue here). Caitlyn had her own TV show. Laverne Cox is a popular TV star. Isis King competed very plausibly on ‘America’s Next Top Model’. The surgery’s getting quite good nowadays. You can often still tell if you’re looking out for it, but it’s not nearly as obvious in most cases as the delightful picture you paint.

    According to the latest survey I’ve seen, about 72% of women say they’re comfortable with TG women sharing a toilet with them, and only 14% say they’re not. It doesn’t appear to be a particularly hard sell at all.

    “Steve’s prognosis is that we’ve already passed Peak Pandering”

    Humanity’s evil streak doesn’t change, ever, but its target does. Now it’s fat people and smokers. And white conservative men, of course. (There are people who think we should stop pandering to them, with all this “free speech” nonsense.) No, it’s not going to go back. But it might move on to a new phase of persecutions.

    The trouble is, most outsiders tend to be disgusted by *both* sides – in much the same way you guys don’t care who wins when the TG activists start fighting with the radical feminists. “Leave them to get on with it” they will say. I agree with them that you’re not doing much to inspire our sympathy, but it’s like Niemoller said – first they came for the ‘scum’ of society, and because I was not scum, I did nothing. So when they eventually came for me there was nobody left to help, and the precedent had anyway been firmly set. You have to stand up for the liberty even of people you don’t like, or the people who don’t like you won’t be able to stand up for yours.

  10. Knowing Me, Knowing Steve

    NiV – I’m not convinced by your tedious advocacy of autogynephilic sex pervertry as srsly yuo guise, this is what John Stuart Mill would’ve wanted, but at least you’re consistent.

    about 72% of women say they’re comfortable with TG women sharing a toilet with them, and only 14% say they’re not

    Yeah, like 69% of opinion polls, that’s bollocks. Which is ironical, given the subject matter.

    Eddie Izzard is very popular. So was Dame Edna Everidge (although not TG, the appearance is the issue here). Caitlyn had her own TV show. Laverne Cox is a popular TV star. Isis King competed very plausibly on ‘America’s Next Top Model’. The surgery’s getting quite good nowadays. You can often still tell if you’re looking out for it, but it’s not nearly as obvious in most cases as the delightful picture you paint.

    Not sure if this is some sort of he/she taqiyya, or you really are so dense astronomers would love to study you.

    Edna – comedy act
    Izzard – same, but without the laughs
    Jenner – freak shows never went away
    Orange is the New Black – degenerate TV show for degenerate SJWs
    America’s Next Top Model – no idea, because I’m a heterosexual father

    No, the poor trannies have appallingly bad surgical outcomes. Jenner has millions of dollars and the best surgery money can buy – and he still looks like Leatherface wearing Jessica Lange.

    No wonder vast numbers of them commit suicide. Chopping your nuts off and pumping your body full of mind-altering chemicals, and still not plausibly resembling the sex you’re cosplaying as must be incredibly discouraging. Not to mention you’d have to be mentally ill to try it in the first place.

    Re: your gay little fantasy that the Tranny Police are gonna lock me up in a gendergulag for the crime of noticing. I’m not worried. But the barely suppressed glee with which you prophesy victory against normality, reason, and common sense reveals your “libertarian” pose for what it is.

  11. To burnish my anti-transphobe credentials I’m going to set up an organisation to tell Capgras Delusion sufferers that yes, actually, their spouses have been replaced by an imposter. A sister outfit will tell anorexics they’re looking a bit on the chubby side. After all, it’s what they believe that’s important, right?

  12. NiV

    Do you operate the Harm Principle – that society has no right to persecute *any* minority except to prevent harm?

    The problem with Mill’s Harm Principle is that there’s no wholly objective definition of what constitutes harm: often, what is harmful is a matter of judgement.

    To most people, mass immigration is harmful; to multi-cultis it isn’t, because diversity – yey! You think widespread polymorphous perversity is harmless and liberating; Steve and I think it is harmful.

  13. “A sister outfit will tell anorexics they’re looking a bit on the chubby side. After all, it’s what they believe that’s important, right?”

    No, it’s *not* just “what they believe”, it’s how their brains are wired.

    See here. There are a number of white matter brain structures that show distinct differences between males and females. When they checked the transgender to find out if their were closer to the pattern matching their external sex or their internal gender, they said “Our results show that the white matter microstructure pattern in untreated FtM transsexuals is closer to the pattern of subjects who share their gender identity (males) than those who share their biological sex (females). Our results provide evidence for an inherent difference in the brain structure of FtM transsexuals.”

    And here’s the equivalent study for MtF subjects. They say “Our results show that the white matter microstructure pattern in untreated MtF transsexuals falls halfway between the pattern of male and female controls. The nature of these differences suggests that some fasciculi do not complete the masculinization process in MtF transsexuals during brain development.”

    There’s been a lot more research done on the subject. There are links to the NR3C4 androgen receptor gene and the CYP17 gene that makes a protein acting on the sex hormone chain. The research is at an early stage, but it’s already fairly definite that most cases are the result of breaks in the complex chain of prenatal development causing certain sex-linked bits of the brain to develop according to the other sex’s pattern, in exactly the same way that homosexuals get the opposite brain module for sexual attraction.

    But you already know that gender differences are wired in to the brain. Whenever the feminists trot out their blank slate “boys and girls are exactly the same, it’s just The Patriarchy that forces difference on them” nonsense, you’ll readily cite it. There’s the case of David Reimer.

    The only bit that we disagree on is that I’m saying that the brain development process is error-prone. Almost everyone has a few sex-linked brain modules from the other sex – some people have a lot.

    To say it’s just “what they believe” is like saying your claim that you’re not gay is just “what you believe”. If we *know* you’re gay, because of our theories about what gay people look like externally, should we be forced to go along with your “pretence” that you’re not? Can we start calling you “Gayboy in Costa Rica”? Would you be happy about that?

    People are entitled to their beliefs, even if they’re provably wrong, and politeness shouldn’t be a matter of law. But getting nasty about people that the rest of society sympathises with is going to lead everyone else to say “Leave them to get on with it” when the SJWs have a go at you. It seems tactically unwise, to me.

  14. “The problem with Mill’s Harm Principle is that there’s no wholly objective definition of what constitutes harm: often, what is harmful is a matter of judgement.”

    Yes, that’s what all the authoritarians say, isn’t it?

    What they really mean is that it ought to be a matter of *their* judgement.

    “To most people, mass immigration is harmful; to multi-cultis it isn’t, because diversity”

    So is our standard is “what most people think” now?

    OK. The British Attitudes Survey 2016 has data on that very subject. (Start reading on p11. This is from table 3 on p13.)


    View of prejudice against transgender people:
    Always wrong 53%
    Mostly wrong 19%
    Sometimes wrong 15%
    Rarely wrong 3%
    Never wrong 1%

    So, what “most people” think (53%) is that transgender prejudice is “always wrong”. 72% think it’s “always” or “mostly wrong”. If we’re being strictly democratic about it, I think “Always wrong” is the winner!

    The “moral majority” can be so fickle, eh? 😉

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