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Someone help me out here

Three months after the horrific fire, the Grenfell inquiry begins. But even at the outset, there are significant concerns that justice will not be served. There is a fear that those most affected will not get a seat at the table. This is crucial. Without building trust in the inquiry process, and placing victims, survivors and their families at the heart of the process, it will be doomed to failure.

Why the fire happened, how the fire happened and who is to blame for it is an expert matter. Neither those who died in it nor those who didn’t have any expert knowledge useful to add.

Have I missed anything here?

32 thoughts on “Someone help me out here”

  1. Yes, Tim, you’ve missed the fact that none of those clinical, logical approaches work any more. It’s all about feelings now, and who can argue loudest for victim status.

  2. Well there is evidence that the residents were pointing out failures of safety for years.

    Their testimony should be used

  3. @LJH

    It’ll be both. When the public money hose is being wielded by politicians, they’ll soak anyone who cares to show up and look weepy enough.

    Mark my words- someone will try for compensation as a result of being caught illegally subletting as a result of the fire.

  4. Some absolute swamp-donkey from London Fire Brigade was on the BBC last night saying every residential property in the UK should retro-fit sprinkler systems. How this would be paid for wasn’t clear, but swamp-donkey said “If just one life can be saved, it’s worth it.”

    They then moved to some politician from Wales who made the swamp-donkey look like Ivanka Trump. She was absolutely fucking howling, I almost threw up my tea. She said Wales is the first country to mandate the installation of sprinkler systems in all housing blocks, smugly saying that as the building industry had refused to put them in voluntarily then us politicians will jolly well tell them to. Who will pay for this, and what effect it will have on the cost of properties, wasn’t discussed.

  5. If just one life can be saved, it’s worth it.

    I absolutely love it when they come out with that! 🙂

    Oh, so you think we should also ban driving, playing rugby, walking down stairs, getting out of bed and everything else that causes at least one death every year…?

  6. Bloke in North Dorset


    Why would someone who works for an organisation that pays for itself by extracting money under threat of violence be expected to even think about how something is paid for? Its fairly obvious to them and the politician they’re talking to.

  7. Bloke in North Dorset


    No, the tenant will pay and then there will be howls about how expensive rents are, unless the State is paying then of course its the tax payer who’s paying.

  8. Thomas Petrarch Fuller

    Will the inquiry be inquiring into the gent whose fridge burst into flames, and who then calmly packed a bag or two and exited without troubling to mention to his neighbours that the building was on fire? Will our keen inquisitors ponder the reason said fridge burst into flames, or any possible fault with that make and model of fridge (many others of which are presumably here and there in our great land), or even — wait for it — what the tenant, whose name may or may not have had an Anglo Saxon origin, might have been storing that needed refrigeration to stop it, er, going off?

  9. Given that my smoke alarm goes off whenever it feels like it, just wait until all the false alarms from sprinklers start pissing everyone off.

  10. @ Thomas Petrach Fuller
    Things that I store in a fridge to stop them going off – milk, butter, cheese, cucumber, sausages, opened jars of sauce, raw meat, fish, and, in summer, assorted vegetables, eggs, tomatoes, cooked meat ….
    First part of your comment sensible.

  11. Sprinklers in the kitchen, sure – I can just about see the reasoning. Sprinklers through the rest of the house? No chance. Think about the damage to carpets, electrical equipment, etc. Think of the fire risk of sprinkling water over electrical sockets and equipment. Sounds more dangerous than not if you ask me

  12. BIC

    I too love that. I’m a bit of a flat track bully and when I meet someone who reasons like that my eyes light up and I think ‘jackpot I’ve found a simpleton’

  13. Oh, so you think we should also ban driving, playing rugby, walking down stairs, getting out of bed and everything else that causes at least one death every year…?

    Dangerous game. There are many, many people in this country who would be quite happy to ban the first two.

  14. @Rob
    Given that my smoke alarm goes off whenever it feels like it, just wait until all the false alarms from sprinklers start pissing on everyone.

    Fixed it for you.

  15. @Bloke in Halifax

    I await the first claim from someone who dies in a chip pan fire that a sprinkler pored water on. Or rather the claim from their family.

  16. @john77
    “Things that I store in a fridge to stop them going off –, in summer, .. cooked meat …”
    Either you don’t have cooked meat for the rest of the year or your house is pretty chilly from September to June.

  17. John77 and others, I suspect that Thomas Petrarch Fuller was not talking of comestibles, rather something that may be intended to go up in smoke or be consumed via a vein.

  18. Smoke alarms are triggered by smoke, sprinklers are triggered by heat of the order of 155 to 165 degrees centigrade, burning the toast won’t set off a sprinkler. I wouldn’t stay in a high rise apartment without a sprinkler system.

  19. BBC R5 Live just interviewed a Grenfell resident who went to the inquiry opening.

    He said he wished he hadn’t bothered (as did I, TBH) as it will have nothing to do with why he is in a hotel after 3 months. Of course, it turns out he has been offered temporary accommodation (1 year) and refused it. He thinks he should get immediate, permanent housing and wasn’t afraid to say so, at length.

    Why would the inquiry look at that. Its to establish the cause, and prevent it happening again. He cared not at all about that – he wanted to know when he would get his (free?) house.

    BBC man says “everyone listening will of course empathise…” thus showing how little he understands his own audience.

  20. @ anon
    June is summer round here; I do actually store meat in the fridge for convenience but, as I buy food as short a time as possible before I need it, the cooked meat wouldn’t go off in winter.

  21. @John 77

    Thanks for your reply. My point is that (assuming what I have read about the fridge guy is true) his behaviour was not normal. Anybody else would have at least banged on the neighbours’ doors, even if he didn’t dial 999. And taking the time to pack a bag implies that there was something very particular he didn’t want to leave behind — usually this would be an item or items of sentimental or commercial value, but his silence on departure might suggest that it was something else. The adjective hovering over all this is ‘suspicious’.

    If you lived in such a block and your fridge innocently caught fire because of a fault in the electrical or cooling system, would you — even if you had been raised in a very different sort of culture — behave like that? I know I wouldn’t, and I’m pretty sure 99% of other humans wouldn’t either.

    The root cause of the fire is the primary fact to determine. Given the quality of those who imagine themselves these days to be the great and the good, i.e. those who will be conducting the inquiry, I think it’s a pretty safe bet we will never know it.

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