Just wondering why this is a problem

The family’s story is not unusual. In the UK, black households are much less likely to be homeowners than those headed by someone white or Asian and much more likely to be living in social housing.

For the same Guardian will tell us that social housing is just glorious, we should all be living in it and none of this nonsense of private property at all.

So, is this evidence of blacks being privileged in our society?

37 thoughts on “Just wondering why this is a problem”

  1. So Much For Subtlety

    And so they identify the problem in the first paragraph:

    she was among the first of her friends of black descent. “Their parents weren’t able to help them – many were in social housing to begin with and a lot are from single-parent families – I come from a single-parent family, too, and my mum was in her late 30s before she was able to buy … before that, we lived in social housing.”

    Divorce causes poverty. Blacks are less likely to own a home because they are more likely to be single mothers. They make this even more clear in the next paragraph:

    In the UK, black households are much less likely to be homeowners than those headed by someone white or Asian and much more likely to be living in social housing.

    Asians? If Whitey is to blame because they hate Black people, they is gonna hate Asians too. But Asians tend to own their own home. They are less likely to get divorced than White people. Anyone care to join the dots?

    They continue to show they know perfectly well it is not racism or society’s problem:

    “Age is a factor – the average age of the white population is mid-40s, but for most BME populations it is in the early 20s. Also, most ethnic minorities live in cities – the black community is concentrated in London, where house prices are very high.”

    Blacks are much younger than Whites by and large. How many single White teenage mothers in London own their own homes?

    In that borough, which includes areas such as Brixton and Crystal Palace, the average house price has increased by 76% over the past 10 years, to £529,546. In Croydon, which has the largest African-Caribbean population in the UK, house prices have also been shooting up, with the average cost of a home rising by 62% over the past decade to £374,276.

    Or to put it another way, Black people depress property prices. Interesting but not very relevant.

    and then, she says, received a letter with the comment: “I would not rent my house to a black person again as your standards of cleanliness fall short.”

    Cleanliness? It is White Privilege innit?

    “this is in Tower Hamlets, one of the most diverse boroughs in the whole country, and all of the people shown milling about in the video were white”.

    Because no one wants to live in Vibrant Communities? The key to a good neighbourhood is White people.

    The advert featured a black male dancer and a white male estate agent alongside the line: “Some Notting Hill folk were born to dance. Others to sell flats.”

    That is kind of funny though.

    Her relationship broke down and then the landlord increased the rent and, despite Fiona being on a full-time teacher’s salary, she and her two children were left in need of help.

    Again the problem is being a single mother. And again White Privilege means we get to pay for them to live in much nicer accommodation than they can afford. Why are we subsidising social dysfunction?

    I’ve talked to other people and the white people are in better areas, their places look a lot cleaner.”

    Hmm, why should that be? It is a mystery innit?

    “If we lived in an equal society you would expect race not to have an impact on your ability to buy a house,” says Elahi. “But it does.”

    Actually no, we would not. As long as different communities have different cultures, they will make different decisions with different outcomes. Those outcomes will not be equal. If Community A decides to give up the enjoyment of their early twenties to save hard for a house while staying in school they will be likely to own their own home. If, say, Community B has a lot more young men that decide Ganja, petty crime and knocking up as many fat chicks as possible is a better way of spending their teen years, well, they are less likely to own their own home.

    Not all of us share the bland White middle class culture of Guardian readers.

  2. If they’re living in council housing in London (as many appear to be), then yes, they are privileged. They’re paying significantly below-market rents and they have security of tenure: two things denied to private-sector tenants.

  3. SMFS: “But Asians tend to own their own home. They are less likely to get divorced than White people. Anyone care to join the dots?”

    Certainly not ‘The Guardian’..!

  4. “More than half of the people who identified as Black/African/Caribbean/Black British in the 2011 census lived in London, and the borough with the largest number of black residents was Lambeth in south London.”

    Right. So, not racism. Just people opting to live in London, which is really expensive. I know there’s places like the Birmingham area and Bristol that have lots of black people too, but half the population living in London is going to mess with your ownership levels.

  5. “The low level of home ownership among black families is both a symptom and a cause of poverty.”

    Not sure it’s the cause of poverty. For my generation, growing up on a council estate or in a privately rented slum was all the incentive we needed to get out and move up.

  6. “I’ve talked to other people and the white people are in better areas, their places look a lot cleaner.”

    Yes, clearly, the white people drive into black areas at night to dump their rubbish, which mainly consists of empty fried chicken cartons & empty tins of Red Stripe…

    Good god, how utterly arrogant these people are, that they never expect to be called on such blatant obfuscation?

  7. Thatcher presided over the biggest expansion of white collar employment in history. Unlike today, employers were unable to recruit from a continuous supply of ready-trained migrant graduates: they had to take what they could from the indigenous population and train them up. Things worked out pretty well. This time round it was our BAME community’s chance to capitalise on the jobs boom in the same manner we did. Unfortunately, Blair’s Labour government opened the floodgates (actually went out into the world recruiting) and sidelined Shineade Sey’s generation, keeping them anchored to the bottom. The BAME community should have voted Leave in larger numbers.

  8. This is all an absurd circumlocution of the proposition that blacks don’t pull their weight in society. If they don’t, they don’t. Nowt I can do about it.

    Many employers much of the time complain about the shortage of good workers. They wouldn’t care whether someone was black or polka-dotted: if they were any good they’d be hired.

    That logic might not work in monopoly organisations – i.e.mainly government or quasi-government organisations – but it would work in firms exposed to market forces.

  9. “…white households tend to earn more.” As SMfS reminds us, it’s the single-parent syndrome. Buying a house and raising a family more often than not takes two wages.

  10. Will employ good staff. The ones who expect to be paid high for poor work, the ones who are idiots, the ones who play the race card, the ones who play any card – why would I want to employ them?

    Have both black and Asian friends, the difference in how they are raised and the cultures are massive.
    The Asian friends – pushed in school, good home life (well, for the boys anyway) and usually landlords in their own right in their early 20s. One in his 30s has 5 properties, none from his parents – simply hard work, investments and good planning. All of them work, even the one with 5 properties – he wants a couple of dozen by the time he’s mid 40s.
    The black friends – every single one was brought up for many years by mum alone. Occasional boyfriends for mum but not a big influence on the child.
    Mum pushed them to do well in school (especially the girls), sometimes the kid rebelled at that.
    None of them (5 in total) have a job at the moment, 3 have served time in prison and 3 (not the same 3) have a few kids as a single mum.

    This is just a bunch of friends, from what I gather talking to them they are somewhat representative of their age and background. They know plenty of others in similar situations to themselves, whites too.

    Amuses me at times I know several generations of one family – grandmother pushed mother to not be a single mum and have an education, mum got pregnant in school and dropped out at age 15 – she raised her daughter similar to her mum and pushed for schooling and no boys – this one pregnant at 14 and 16, carried the baby to term at 16 so now is a single parent herself. A daughter – which all the womenfolk swear will do well in school and not mess with boys. Time will tell…. but to be honest not expecting much.

  11. dearieme,

    Indeed. What’s the incentive? Look at how many related/connected people there are at the BBC. Because if you’re doing a TV show, you might as well hire your mate’s daughter than hire someone off the street. You aren’t going to end up any poorer in the job, but you’ll end up richer in terms of what he might do for you later.

    You don’t get that in industry. People talk about the OBN, but you don’t see it. I’d hire a black guy I recently work with over my white mate because my white mate is a bit useless at programming.

  12. In that borough, which includes areas such as Brixton and Crystal Palace, the average house price has increased by 76% over the past 10 years, to £529,546

    Which is fucking unbelievable. Who in their right minds would pay that to live in utter toilets like Brixton?

    Anyway, interesting to see “and Asian” tagged on to Whitey there. Over the summer there seemed to be a surge in the loonier fringes of US Progressivism against Asians, because they tend to be non-disfunctional, intelligent, educated and socially conservative. The result of this is that they tend to be as wealthy, or wealthier than whites and hence are the “New Whites”, to be hated as such. It seems this attitude is seeping into mainstream Progressivism too, as the crazy ideas always do.

    I personally welcome our new allies and look forward to the Guardian contortions as they try and claim successful Chinese are racist whites.

  13. Tim, this is rare and precious thing. I think you’ve discovered a neo-thatcherite writing in the Guardian.

    1. Right to buy
    2. Mortgage interest tax relief.

  14. @Rob – you got in ahead of me. In the racial looniverse that is the US, bright and hard working Asian kids have to do vastly better on their SATs to get a college place than blacks.

    Penalised for success.

    In the UK on the other hand, hating Islam makes you a racist, even if your best mate’s surname is Patel.

  15. “the loonier fringes of US Progressivism against Asians, because they tend to be …”: in the US “Asian” means orientals – mainly Chinese. They’re usually not surly peasants from the Punjab.

  16. “the average house price has increased by 76% over the past 10 years”

    That makes it sound super-dramatic but it only annualises to 5.8%. For all the way people go on about London’s house price escalator, 5.8% isn’t an extraordinary level of annual growth, though for a lot of these folk it obviously hurts that it’s more than their salary rises by.

  17. When I struggle through my 65 minute commute and pass the social housing estate minutes from my work in some of the most prime land on God’s earth… yeah, they look pretty privileged.

    I’m really not joking here – the larger flats on the open market would rent for over half my gross salary, and I just about scrape into the 1% of salaried income earners I think.

  18. Dearieme

    In the US Punjabis are most definitely called Asian. It’s us here who split out sub-Continentals and Asians (all the others living East of the Arabian Sea and North and West of New Guinea).

  19. Solid Steve 2: Squirrels of The Patriots

    The scale of the home-ownership divide is expected to be confirmed next week with the publication of a “race-disparity audit”, which was commissioned by Theresa May on becoming prime minister.

    And yet, she continues to be surprised by how unpopular she is.

  20. Bloke in North Dorset

    Gross généralisation alert to make a point.

    smfs and Bernie G raise something I’ve been mulling over.

    In the so called golden era for housing I bought my first house with a mortgage of 2.5x my salary. I was single but it wouldn’t have mattered if I’d been married because the assumption was that my wife would have stopped work for us to raise a family. As the building society manager said, they want us to have a life as well as buy a house.

    Since then women have, to use our genial hosts phrase, become economic units in their own right. Whilst this has by and large been a good (I hear smfs disagreeing already) it has meant that lenders are also lending to women as well.

    This means that lenders now have to lend equally and can’t really tell a couple that only he can borrow – imagine the manufactured outrage on Twitter if a building society manager asked if a couple were planning to have children? As a consequence average house prices are now ~2.5x a couple’s income instead of just the man’s.

    Hence single mums will never be able to afford a house.

    PS obviously there’s regional descrepencies and by average I’m using the general sense as used by journalists but it should be median.

  21. BiND,

    > Hence single mums will never be able to afford a house.

    They just take it from their former husband instead.

    Seriously though, is this the least Tory leadership we’ve ever seen? Council house building, energy price caps, public sector pay rises, etc. If the Tories are going to be Labour-Lite, voters might as well vote for full Labour.

  22. All good points. Racial disparities in culture and intelligence are forbidden discussions and you will be penalised for making any comment in these spaces. Even if the data supports the ideas as it does with gender disparities.

    Given the core belief of equality of starting material, data and experience be damned, then if equality of opportunity exists outcomes should be equal. Given outcomes are unequal there must therefore not be equality of opportunity.

    Examining the starting assumption would do society and the individuals who make it up a favour but full SJW wrath awaits those who do such a thing so we are stuck with an equality agenda that actually encourages bad outcomes. Brilliant stuff.

  23. Bloke: Agreed. My great-great-grandmother was able to buy a house as a single-income widow and raise a family. My great-grandmother was able to buy a house as a single-income widow and raise a family. My grandmother was able to pay for the family home as a single-income divorcee. My mother was able to buy a house and raise a family as a single-income divorcee. In the past you could budget one person’s income to pay for a place to live.

  24. “In the US Punjabis are most definitely called Asian.”

    I don’t know that you are wrong. On the other hand I’ve seen several US bloggers express surprise that we refer to subContinentals as “Asians”. So maybe those US bloggers are unfamiliar with US usage.

    In my experience USians refer to Indians as Indians, not Asians. To avert confusion, some make the light-hearted distinction “dot not feathers”.

  25. Andrew M,

    “Seriously though, is this the least Tory leadership we’ve ever seen? Council house building, energy price caps, public sector pay rises, etc. If the Tories are going to be Labour-Lite, voters might as well vote for full Labour.”

    You forgot even more spending on university education.

    It’s Ed Milliband-level Labour.

    I’m leaving the party today. If you know a party that stands for free markets, liberal policies and small government, let me know.

  26. Solid Steve 2: Squirrels of The Patriots,

    It’s this stuff I never… fucking… understand. There’s hard decisions that Conservatives have to make, but there is no use to Conservatives, or to the country of SJW stuff. You’ll create a load of noise from nose-ring sporting sociology students who will go on a protest march about it, and your votes in Thurrock will drop by precisely 0.

    One nationers are totally clueless. They think about winning every vote. They really think they can win the young vote. And sure, there’s the odd Tory boy, but most aren’t. They’re trying to bribe recent graduates or young people, as if those people are going to vote Conservative at all.

  27. Bloke in North Dorset

    “Seriously though, is this the least Tory leadership we’ve ever seen? Council house building, energy price caps, public sector pay rises, etc.”

    Heath would have been proud. The long sulk must be over now if he’s watching.

  28. Could Theresa May announce some income tax rises to give to single black mothers on benefits so they can buy property in London? It’s a fucking MASSIVE vote winner!

  29. As it happened, my membership lapsed 2 days ago. Not that I got any renewal notice. This feels like a metaphor.

    I’ll help start a party if anyone’s up for it. Bollocks to this lot.

  30. Bloke in North Dorset

    Bloke on M4,

    I’ve been very closely involved with a startup political party, although not right at the start, and eventually became an officer.

    My advice is: don’t even start, it’s not worth the time or money. You’d be better off trying to build a Thatcherite insurgncy in the Tories.

    If you want detail and advice I’m happy for Tim to pass on my email address

  31. MC – I know two people with the surname Patel who are catholics.
    You may find more of them who are Muslim around the world but like anyone else they can choose any (or none) religion.
    We don’t assign religion in this country by surname.

  32. BiND,

    “My advice is: don’t even start, it’s not worth the time or money. You’d be better off trying to build a Thatcherite insurgncy in the Tories.”

    I’ve spent a year being a member and a few months involved in activism and part of the problem is just how much one nation conservatism there is. I thought I’d meet more Thatcherite councillors and activists and I didn’t meet many. It’s heavy with One Nation types.

  33. Jgh, interested in that link to the Liberal Party – didn’t realise they still existed. Neat narrative line though – no ability of LibDems to challenge on the name (but maybe accidentally steal some votes). More important the name is genuine IP, a valuable non tangible asset. If you fund it and put up basically what would otherwise be independent candidates (perhaps some of the people on the thread!) then there is a real chance in 2022. To think, people in polite society able to say “I’m a Liberal’ rather than “err…actually I voted Tory”, the ability to call on the tradition of Liberal free trade and individualism against State Socialism and Tory paternalism etc. Far less ability for the establishment to toxify the brand like they did with UKIP…Perhaps we could persuade Timmy to take on the role of Chief Economic adviser ?

  34. So Much For Subtlety

    jgh – “My great-great-grandmother was able to buy a house as a single-income widow and raise a family. My great-grandmother was able to buy a house as a single-income widow and raise a family. My grandmother was able to pay for the family home as a single-income divorcee. My mother was able to buy a house and raise a family as a single-income divorcee. In the past you could budget one person’s income to pay for a place to live.”

    Holy [email protected] that is a weird family tree. I suppose it is good news for you that the women your family marry have gone from surviving their husband’s death to just divorcing them.

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