Slightly odd this one

Another alleged incident happened in a toilet at the 2013 Edinburgh TV Festival. The Sun quoted sources as claiming Spacey made an advance on a writer, who pushed the actor away and left.

There was a furor over whether John Gielgud should be pardoned for similar importuning. And I’m sure there are parts of our society where cottaging etiquette is actively taught by the state.

Seriously, “Fancy a shag? No, OK then” isn’t a crime to the very heavens.

30 thoughts on “Slightly odd this one”

  1. It isn’t, but if you do it constantly to people who are just minding their own business then it becomes quite harassing. You won’t be arrested (and he’s not) but you’ll get a reputation (and he is) and people will shun you (which they are).

  2. #me too

    Just to be clear, I’ve never even met Kevin Spacey. But a man did once make an advance on me in a toilet and I pushed him away.

    Actually, now I think about it, I have made advances on a number of women and been pushed away. We really are all bastards.

    The #me too thing pisses me off; it’s basically saying: “So some women were raped huh? Never mind that, let’s make it all about me”.

  3. Surely it’s the venue. Propositioning someone in a bar, say, is one thing. It’s in public, the propositionee can be presumed to be open to being approached. It’s difficult to think of an analogous equivalent for a male female encounter, but a woman being propositioned by a man in a dentists waiting room wouldn’t be far off it. It’s just highly inappropriate.

  4. MC: It’s not “let’s make it all about me”, it’s “it happened to me too”. The idea is to give people a sense of the scale of the problem.

  5. “but a woman being propositioned by a man in a dentists waiting room wouldn’t be far off it. It’s just highly inappropriate.”

    Are you sure there is not a Mills & Boon with that story line… Or even a tread on Mumsnet about hot men seen in the dentists waiting room?

  6. I think it might also be fair to suggest that while gentlemen of such persuasion can quite evidently get a quickie from a casual encounter in a public toilet (and as such it is presumably worth a casual question – if so minded) I have never actually heard of any success resulting from trying said approach on a young lady. Ergo, Spacey, Gielgud and in his day George Michael amongst others were simply working on the ‘no harm in asking’ principle.

  7. The leftist hypocrisy revealed in the Weinstein caper is being lost in an “All men are pigs” narrative. Thus the left ducks the truth and diverts attention,.

    They have even extended the noise to their supposed homosexualist allies . Thus showing–as with the RoP importation –that they have no actual concern for their client groups but regard them merely as cannon-fodder in the battle to establish universal socialist evil.

  8. Spacey, unlike Weinstein, doesn’t have power to wield over his interlocutors. Weinstein’s behaviour was reprehensible in part because young actresses felt they had no choice but to comply, in order to avoid being banished from the industry. Spacey’s would-be shags were perfectly able to say no. (They just aren’t used to saying no, being heterosexual men.)

  9. @Matthew L

    “MC: It’s not “let’s make it all about me”, it’s “it happened to me too”. The idea is to give people a sense of the scale of the problem.”

    Ah, fair point. But

    1: Asking someone out for a date at work (quoted example on my FB feed) isn’t the same as sexual assault- and that’s the implied (whether intentional or not) by using the same label/Hashtag for the two different things.

    2: As Mr Crun says: Is this a problem? A lot of what is being lumped together is just a set of regular human behaviours. If 90% of all women have an anecdote that fits under the Meeeeeetoo banner, I’d argue that we are possible (just possibly) talking about something that happens wherever you get people together.

  10. I also love the dichotomy between the left’s view of these events – and Weinstein, Spacey et al are left-darlings, and JHB’s response to Fallon.

  11. “MC: It’s not “let’s make it all about me”, it’s “it happened to me too”. The idea is to give people a sense of the scale of the problem.”

    Wrong. MC is right. There are a lot of “me too’s” who are simply reporting unwanted passes. Not rape. Not sexual assault. The whole important distinction between these things is being blurred, and the result will be disastrous.

  12. Philip Scott Thomas

    Matthew L –

    The idea is to give people a sense of the scale of the problem.

    The problem is that we aren’t getting a sense of the scale of the problem because too many different things are being conflated. Rape is a serious criminal offence. Being propositioned or even touched inappropriately is not.

    If you watch Doris Day’s rom-coms from the late-1950s and 1960s you see her constantly having to extricate herself from the unwanted attentions of a masher, some of them quite handsy. She says no. Sometimes she has to slap them away. But she always wins. She’s the prototypical powerful woman the feminists talk about. Yes, the masher’s attentions are unwelcome and make one uncomfortable and awkward, but they are something an adult with determination can refuse.

    The trouble, as I said, is that these encounters, however uncomfortable, are simply not in the same class as a Weinstein or a Polanski. Yet by lumping the together we are getting a skewed sense of the scale of the problem. And, as ever, men end up coming out the worse.

    I also find it curious that we’ve had no mention yet of the unwelcome attentions of cougars.

  13. Regarding Westminster, if it’s okay for Keith Vaz to have had consensual drug-fuelled orgies with rent boys, why are we supposed to be upset by other politicians who have had consensual sex with their researchers? Or put their hand on a knee at a dinner party? It’s hardly Weinstein territory.

  14. Tel-“Wrong. MC is right. There are a lot of “me too’s” who are simply reporting unwanted passes. Not rape. Not sexual assault. The whole important distinction between these things is being blurred, and the result will be disastrous”

    That is exactly the intent of Marxian feminism. And has been from the start.

    What is galling is that they are turning what should have been a black eye for leftist sexual hypocrisy into grist for their man-hating mill. They knew what effect the “Me Too” tripe would have and that is why they brought it into play. Destroying men–any men even their supposed allies- is more important to them than sparing leftist men and enough noise will drown out the who-is-a-leftist-or-not distinction anyway.

  15. “There are a lot of “me too’s” who are simply reporting unwanted passes. Not rape. Not sexual assault.”

    Remember we’re talking about women here. Everything has to be about them.

  16. The case for sensible men to fvck only rubber androids is becoming more and more compelling and to make a bit of spare cash by selling semen to women who want to self-impregnate.

  17. @PST

    “I also find it curious that we’ve had no mention yet of the unwelcome attentions of cougars.”

    Ooh. I can recall more than one incident when I have inadvertently attracted the attention of a pushed divorcee. I think cougar is too kind a soubriquet. They are nasty when politely rebuffed.

  18. I’m starting to wonder if it’s going to get to the point where my Parish Council register of interests is going to have to include every declined attempted chat-up from 40 years ago. And what do about the ones I declined? And the ones I didn’t even realise at the time I was being chatted up?

  19. Solid Steve 2: Squirrels of The Patriots

    PST – If you watch Doris Day’s rom-coms from the late-1950s and 1960s you see her constantly having to extricate herself from the unwanted attentions of a masher

    See also the splendid Ricardo Montalban attempting to seduce Esther Williams while singing “Baby It’s Cold Outside” in the film NEPTUNE’S DAUGHTER.

  20. Wrong. MC is right. There are a lot of “me too’s” who are simply reporting unwanted passes. Not rape. Not sexual assault.

    It’s also illuminating to see who is coming forward with tales of having been raped and sexually assaulted. A disproportionate number of them seem to be right-on, lefty women complaining they were attacked by men they knew and trusted. This tells you more about the sort of men right-on, lefty women hang out with and how they evaluate them than it does men in general.

  21. Solid Steve 2: Squirrels of The Patriots

    Thinking about Philip’s point, people in the 40’s, 50’s and 60’s seemed a lot more comfortable in dealing with the opposite sex than people are today.

    Dunno if it’s the fallout of the sexual revolution, social atomisation, or whatever, but a lot of folks today don’t seem to know how to make heterosexual relationships work.

    How much of the #metoo stuff is just caused by awkwardness and anxiety?

  22. Actually- let’s just dig at this for a second. My wife has friends that I’d be uncomfortable around if they were pissed. Like, a bit conscious that there’s an opportunity for awkwardness. Does this mean we have a societal problem that must be addressed?

    Or how about we forget an actual pass or a proposition? What about if these ladies say something to me that I misinterpret? Because if it’s all about how I feel, it’s got precious little to do with what they say or do, and more about how sensitive I am.

    It’s all bullshit, isn’t it?

  23. Feelz is Marxist subjectivist evil. Designed to be unanswerable and to fuck up the legal system with cases where a rational defence of what actually happened is impossible and/or irrelevant.

    By design.

  24. Went in a cruise recently, felt very sorry for the barmen who were constantly dealing with drunk pushy women, though they did handle it well with a good sense of humour. By contrast the drunk men were much better behaved

  25. @John Square, October 31, 2017 at 9:38 am

    I also love the dichotomy between the left’s view of these events – and Weinstein, Spacey et al are left-darlings, and JHB’s response to Fallon.

    +1

    iirc JHB is saying she’s not a victim

  26. @Pcar

    Exactly- JHB’s response is measured and reasonable: essentially ‘he asked, I declined’

    No claim of victimisation, no hysteria. Certainly, she could have done, given what others are saying, but she’s been fair. And come out of it looking strong.

    More power to her.

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