These two are not the same

Let me tell you about some of the Harvey Weinsteins I worked with.

There was the creative director who regularly shoved his hand up his secretary’s crotch and down her bra. She was so outraged, she took him to a legal tribunal (which she lost). Most of the rest of us thought she was overreacting. After all, he was gay, so it wasn’t really sexual harassment, was it? For the record, he treated men as badly as he treated women.

There was the account guy who strolled into my office after a presentation and said, of the middle-aged female client who’d just turned down some of our work, “Nothing wrong with her that a good shafting wouldn’t fix.”

It’s even possible that both are wrong but they’re most assuredly not the same, are they?

And even in the middle of an entirely of an entirely righteous condemnation of the one we’ve got to be careful in our distinctions.

15 thoughts on “These two are not the same”

  1. This is the problem with this whole area. Stuff like “fancy a drink” becomes harassment in the same way as mauling employees.

    A lot of women, frankly, need to grow the fuck up. You wanted into the workplaces. You didn’t want to be home raising kids.

    And the problem is that what many women do is what men used to do which is to be “company men”. They don’t try and acquire valuable skills. They try and be team players. OK, there’s a few women in marketing and legal, but most women’s careers are linked to their employer. They can’t just say “fuck you, I quit”.

  2. From the link

    “But there isn’t a shred of evidence to suggest that the world has changed since many of us began working in the 1970s and 80s.”

    Da fuq?

    The office environment has changed hug lay since the late 90’s, when I started work.

    Also:
    “There was the account guy who strolled into my office”

    Who the fuck is an ‘account guy’? I’ve worked across most industries, and I have never heard ‘account guy’ as a term or slang.

    Also:

    “There was the art director who raped his secretary at an agency party. *She reported it* and was let go with a payoff of a few thousand pounds. He kept his job.”

    To the cops? Or HR?

    Bullshit. All of it.

  3. @Julia, A female friend of mine worked in a predominately female workforce with the odd male. The things she told me about what the women got up to with the male opened my mind to the fact that abuse (more like wind up and trolling than real sexual abuse) works in any situation where there is a majority of one sex. It works both ways. It’s humanity at work.

  4. Weinstein is gay???

    A very odd sort of homosexual to be sure if he is supposed to have done even a fraction of what he has already been accused of.

    This caper is rapidly turning into an American Savile-show. From being a propositioner (with extra nastys like nudie walk-ins on women) he is now a king groper and will soon–like the Savile metamorphosis-have become a voracious omni-sexual rapist, paedo, predator, Satanist and member/leader of a vast network of cultists , hooded and otherwise all practicing vices that would have terrorised HP Lovecraft and Dennis Wheatley. The same patterns of ever-snowballing accusation are starting to emerge in this caper.

    The difference is that Weinstein is still alive and thus some hope of the truth may still exist.

    It is my opinion that Savile was likely not guilty on all counts and will in 25 years– when the hysteria has cooled– be exonerated.

  5. Me Ecks,

    Look at how little Savile was accused of while alive. How little anyone ever even rumoured about him when alive.

    I know people say that is hard to report, and I get that, but we have the kids raped by Catholic priests that come forward within decades.”oh but Savile was powerful” because what, Thatcher gave him a worthless bauble for raising millions? You have to be mental to think the Tories would have protected a DJ.

  6. To the cops? Or HR?

    Too traumatised to go to the police, but not quite traumatised to report it to HR.

    Or in the case of the recent accusation against Weinstein, reported to an Amazon executive, who’s first question presumably was “have you reported this to the police”.

    Give HR the power to investigate and prosecute rapes! It’s the only answer!

  7. “Who the fuck is an ‘account guy’? I’ve worked across most industries, and I have never heard ‘account guy’ as a term or slang.”

    I have. It’s probably ‘account manager’, which is a fancy name for salesman. Companies that have large customers (generating millions in revenue a year each) generally have some ‘account manager’ assigned to each such customer, each managing a few of those customers.

    Of course this person doesn’t manage anything at all – he mostly conveys messages to and from the customer – so some people think the word ‘manager’ in the title is funny. But he also tries to sell the customer ever more, and I guess this one failed this time. Calling customers stupid in this case is par for the course. Saying that they need to get laid may be uncouth, but not quite shocking.

  8. Synp

    Yeah- I’ve heard of account manager (I am one), but usually people say ‘sales guy’. Or accountant, if that’s the different kind of account. Or administrator, if they are someone associated with the account, but not the main guy.

    It seemed an awkward construction that i have never once encountered in 20 years. In an article by a feminist novelist .

  9. Rob,

    That really is ridiculous. My single thing if someone came into the office claiming that is ‘have you been to the police?’

    Because this is what this smells like to me: she fucked Weinstein for a part and either he didn’t deliver or she assumed more parts later as a result. She feels wronged so wants him punished. She lies about rape to her boss, hoping he’ll just fire him. Because if she lied about rape to the police, that brings it into the open, subjects her to scrutiny, brings potential punishments.

    I’m prepared to believe that Weinstein got his cock out. Rape? I don’t buy it. Rapists are either sickos who get a kick or low-status men. But no woman likes to be known as being a whore.

  10. @BoM4

    Exactly: the stories out so far lean more towards “Yep- fucked him, and now I wish I hadn’t” than anything else.

  11. @Bloke on M4, October 14, 2017 at 9:36 am

    Look at how little Savile was accused of while alive. How little anyone ever even rumoured about him when alive.

    Small one here:
    Drop.The.Dead.Donkey.S02E004 (1991) Baseball – Jimmy Saville ref ~4min

  12. So Much For Subtlety

    Mr Ecks – “It is my opinion that Savile was likely not guilty on all counts and will in 25 years– when the hysteria has cooled– be exonerated.”

    He is a modern Titus Oates. There is no evidence he did anything wrong and yet his estate was looted and divided up among the lawyers.

    But the convicted killers of Stephen Lawrence will, no doubt, be exonerated one day. Probably posthumously.

  13. @ SMFS
    We *do* know that Savile was a nasty piece of work. He probably never raped any girl because he didn’t need to do so since there was an ample supply of groupies. That doesn’t make him an innocent victim and he certainly didn’t suffer as a result of lawyers pocketing the money he left behind.

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