This is fascinating

Richard Murphy says:
October 5 2017 at 12:23 pm
Pure drivel, with respect

Show me all their accounts

If you can’t the conditions for a market don’t exist

I can’t see the accounts for the pub, the pub can’t see mine either. And yet we still manage to have a market for beer in pubs.

17 thoughts on “This is fascinating”

  1. MurphyBullshit at its best.

    Robert Ley explains why stock options leave the exchequer better off…..

    “Richard Murphy says:

    These may well be US options”

    Reply

    Robert Ley says:

    I don’t have experience of US treatment of option grants, but I’m not certain what consequences there would be in the US if they have been granted to UK employees, and appear in the UK accounts ?

    You may be able to throw light on this ?”

    Richard Murphy says:

    “I do not have the time

    The consequences can be uncomfortable for tax”

    Translated as – “I do not understand options, certainly not US options but I like to pretend I do and that they are probably crooked”

  2. “Uncomfortable for tax” this must mean that dreadful thing “less tax”. However aren’t US stock options heavily taxed in the UK ie they tend to attract income tax as well as capital gains tax? I admit ignorance but I chatted about it 20 years ago with a UK employee of EDS

  3. @Diogenes

    There’s no difference.

    Unless we are talking about a tax-approved scheme (and these apply only to very small companies or very small values in big companies) then all we are looking at (however they are dressed up) is.

    “What are the shares worth” less “what has the employee paid for them”.

    That’s about it for the income tax charge.

    Then you have acquired them for CGT purposes at the value you got them at for income tax purposes.

    A tax ‘expert’ would know this.

  4. Show me all their accounts
    If you can’t the conditions for a market don’t exist

    1. Invent spurious and impossible condition for the existence of X.
    2. Show that condition is false.
    3. Claim therefore X does not exist.

    Standard operating procedure for him.

  5. AndrewC, given that the Facebook scheme is quite high value (ie it’s more than the result of saving £250 a month for 5 years) I presume then it would attract income tax and NIC (?), hence MOAR tax, what is his problem?

  6. @Diogenes “it would attract income tax and NIC (?), hence MOAR tax. what is his problem?”

    That’s just his problem. He can’t bring himself to admit it. It doesn’t fit the narrative he wants to spin.

  7. I can get accounts for quite a few of them via the London Stock Exchange website but as Tim says the whole claim is utter nonsense. The requirements for a market is that the buyers can see the price and what is offered at that price – a good market will have competing sellers so that the buyer can make a choice – the seller’s costs and profit margin (if any) are of no particular interest.
    http://www.downhammarkettowncouncil.org.uk/markets.htm
    Murphy has a *very* short memory.

  8. “Show me all their accounts. If you can’t the conditions for a market don’t exist”

    So then the conditions for a good rubber of whist also don’t exist?

  9. “What are the shares worth” less “what has the employee paid for them”.

    You pay for them when they mature (at your discount rate). They then become capital. When you sell them they are subject to CGT.

    You have to sign all sorts of US forms to stop the IRS taking a large chunk though.

  10. Snippa got a good kicking from Sally Phillips too. Yesterday was a very bad day for him, totally out of his depth and flailing around in his ignorance

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