Well, yes, erm

Americans want better gun laws. We can’t let lobbyists stop us
Shannon Watts
We must start talking openly about how to solve the gun violence, crisis writes Shannon Watts, the founder of Moms Demand Action for Gun Sense in America

Shannon Watts, of Moms Demand Action for Gun Sense in America is herself a funded lobbyist.

People send her money to advocate things they believe in in front of legislators. As they do with the NRA. That’s what lobbyists are.

34 thoughts on “Well, yes, erm”

  1. But, But….., Ms Watts is a GOOD lobbyist. NRA employ EVIL lobbyists. These same liberals want free movement across the Mexican border, where any form of infantry small arm is available for a price. You can’t have gun control without border control.

  2. So Much For Subtlety

    Still she does have a point. We should talk openly about what causes this gun violence.

    Schizophrenics are about ten times more likely to kill someone than a normal person. We don’t let them buy guns for that reason. Black people are a bit less than ten times more likely to kill someone than a White person.

    By all means, let’s have a conversation about common sense gun laws.

  3. @SMFS – if it turns out to be a lefty f*cktard (given the target), will the media reflect for a nanosecond on the rabid, screaming anti-Trump, anti-Rep, anti-Conservative culture they’ve breathlessly promoted the last 18 months? The one which tolerates, and indeed applauds, people tweeting “Kill Trump!” “Kill all Republicans”?

    You know, the one that might gently wave a deranged leftist in the direction of psycho killing?

    I think we already know the answer…

  4. “..Congress is considering legislation that would gut silencer safety laws and make it easy for convicted felons and domestic abusers to buy gun silencers – which distort the sound of a gun and make it harder for law enforcement officers to stop a shooter…”

    *sighs*

  5. So Much For Subtlety

    JuliaM – “make it harder for law enforcement officers to stop a shooter…”

    Do law enforcement officers actually stop shooters these days? I thought that at that Florida Gay night club, and perhaps in Las Vegas as well, they simply waited for him to run out of bullets.

  6. @SMFS, well, quite! It was over an hour before they breached the hotel room. If he hadn’t shot himself, more would be dead. He certainly wasn’t going to run out of bullets in a hurry, was he?

  7. SMFS–Fuck that noise.

    In practice “common sense gun laws”=leftist gun grabbing.

    No one can decide who is a nutter and even if troubled who will kill and who won’t.

    O’Scumma was going down the “Gun Control via Psychiatrist “route so you can fuck that as well. Most shrinks are nothing to write home about mental-health wise themselves. Hell –nobody is.

    We need a society that raises better people –and finishing socialism once and for all would be a mega-step in that direction.

  8. The US love affair with their guns does not help matters. Many other countries guns are legal and don’t have the same mental health problems of the American psyche so don’t have the same shooting rate.

  9. The gun control debate never ever discusses the primal fear issue that keeps the 2nd amendment politically popular in the USA. Americans like their liberties and they, particularly the right, detest and fear the lefty state in equal measure. If the left stopped prosecuting Christian bakers or offering up candidates like Clinton or Obama the right might have reason not to distrust them so much. But we are where we are. The gun murder rate is an acceptabloe price for the majority to not let the like sof Clinton impose her police state.

  10. Solid Steve 2: Squirrels of The Patriots

    abacab – if it turns out to be a lefty f*cktard (given the target), will the media reflect for a nanosecond on the rabid, screaming anti-Trump, anti-Rep, anti-Conservative culture they’ve breathlessly promoted the last 18 months? The one which tolerates, and indeed applauds, people tweeting “Kill Trump!” “Kill all Republicans”?

    As you say, we know the answer. They probably won’t report it at all. And if they do report it, it’ll quickly be dropped.

    A church in Tennessee got shot up just a few days ago. Thankfully the body count wasn’t nearly as high as in Nevada, entirely due to one of the ushers tackling the murderer, then getting his own gun.

    The suspect is a black guy from Sudan, so that and a legally armed citizen saving the day made this story useless for Narrative-pushing purposes. It was already being quietly memory-holed even before the Las Vegas carnage.

    And, of course, someone did try to mass-murder Republicans earlier this year.

    The perpetrator was a liberal Democrat and apparently believed the conspiracy theory that the President is somehow a Russian stooge and a traitor and some sort of tyrant. Possibly because the US mass media and the Democratic party told him – again and again – that Trump is a Russian stooge and a traitor and some sort of tyrant.

    He shot at a bunch of Republican congressmen and put 6 of them in the hospital. Congressman Scalise was very close to death, only came out of intensive care recently.

    Anybody remember the perp’s name off the top of your head?

    No?

    Why do you suppose that is? You remember who Dylann Storm Roof is, what he did, and what motivated him. Because they made sure you knew.

    But the Congressional baseball shooting just… eh… happened… Hey, look over there! Trumphitler’s tweeting again!

  11. @Steve – yesssss. I remember them being hot to trot on the gun control angle of the baseball shooting, until it turned out it was a Bernie bro. You couldn’t move for crickets and tumbleweeds after that.

  12. Isn’t it amazing that the NRA and gun lobbyists exist without any support whatsoever from the public?

    Shannon Watts (who is as awful a human being as you can imagine) and her ilk wants everyone to believe that the NRA exists in a vacuum… A small group of old fat white guys smoking cigars and plotting evil in a small back room somewhere. 55 million people own at least one firearm in ‘Merica, and the bottom line is that Shannon Watts, CNN and jerks like Chris Murphy are too cowardly to call actually call them out…

    Shannon Watts makes a good living off pushing gun control. If she actually got gun control, she’d have to find another job. If, over the past few days, you’ve been wondering why the gun control lobby is acting in a manner that is so obviously self-defeating, now you know the answer.

  13. “Shannon Watts makes a good living off pushing gun control. If she actually got gun control, she’d have to find another job. ”

    Don’t be daft, she’d just find another ’cause’ to champion instead. Parasites are hard to get rid of………

  14. I campaign, you lobby.

    I purify, you pervert.

    Meh.

    “Moms Demand Action for Gun Sense in America” – Snappy name.

  15. Don’t be daft, she’d just find another ’cause’ to champion instead. Parasites are hard to get rid of………

    What parasite wants to spend time and energy looking for a new host?

  16. @ Dennis
    The Black Death spread very fast because fleas kept looking for new hosts when the old one died.
    Probably not part of the History syllabus in the US of A because it occurred before 1492.

  17. “What parasite wants to spend time and energy looking for a new host?”

    One that would have to work for a living otherwise. And she wouldn’t be moving host, the victims would be the same, taxpayers, liberal trust funds and gullible private individuals. Just the schtick would change. Probably swap to some other ‘Think of the children!’ sales pitch. Trying to get knife manufacturers shut down, that sort of thing. No lobby group or charity ever closes its door because its work is done, there are salaries and pensions to be maintained.

  18. Bloke in North Dorset

    “No lobby group or charity ever closes its door because its work is done, there are salaries and pensions to be maintained.”

    Unleaded fuel being the exception that proves the rule.

  19. So we’re on day 3 now. The political affiliation of the shooter has not been publicised. Since it’s a matter of public record, the journos will have looked it up first thing on Monday morning.

    I think it’s safe to say at this stage that he was a registered Democrat. If it were Repub or no affiliation, we’d know about it now cos it would be narrative-fitting.

  20. Probably not part of the History syllabus in the US of A because it occurred before 1492.

    Pre-1492? Try post-1939. All any ‘Merican needs is a reminder of who paid for Lend-Lease, World War Two, the Marshall Plan and NATO. We’re well acquainted with the concept of parasites… We call ’em Europeans.

    And Europeans, like all other parasites, stay with a host until the host dies… They don’t try to kill the host, it’s just that they’re too stupid to know it’s in their best interest to keep it living.

  21. @abacab, October 4, 2017 at 7:51 am

    if it turns out to be a lefty f*cktard (given the target), will the media reflect for a nanosecond on the rabid, screaming anti-Trump, anti-Rep, anti-Conservative culture they’ve breathlessly promoted the last 18 months? The one which tolerates, and indeed applauds, people tweeting “Kill Trump!” “Kill all Republicans”?

    You know, the one that might gently wave a deranged leftist in the direction of psycho killing?

    You mean like this?

    1. Hayley Geftman-Gold, VP legal executive at CBS: No Sympathy for Vegas Victims [as Republicans]

    2. CNN Reporter Jeff Zeleney: Country Music Fans at Las Vegas Concert Were Likely Trump Supporters

    The Left and tolerance, compassion, equality…

  22. Thank you Dennis. That’s the best put-down of the ritual, university educated, middle-class, Brit ritual anti-American sneer I’ve heard for ages.

  23. Bloke in North Dorset

    Picking up from the long thread as I’m not sure it’s still being read.

    DtP,

    On the question of the police identifying the hotel, let alone room, how much muzzle flash is there on modem weapons? I know how difficult it was to spot muzzle flash on an old SLR at something like 300, especially when the adrenalin is flowing. I presume modern designs have eliminated it even further?

  24. On the question of the police identifying the hotel, let alone room, how much muzzle flash is there on modem weapons?

    That’s a question for abacab… I just don’t have enough experience with different high-powered rifles to give you an educated answer.

    What I will say is this: Muzzle flash varies significantly across the 20 or so handguns I own. For example, my FNH Five Seven, which is chambered in 5.7mm, has pretty amazing muzzle flash, as does my Ruger LCR chambered in 22 mag.

    My 45 cal. and 9mm pistols and 38 Special revolvers have varying degrees of muzzle flash, but not nearly as much the two mentioned above.

  25. There are devices know as flash suppressors that are designed to reduce flash in rifles, but my understanding is that they are designed primarily to prevent the shooter from being blinded by the flash in low light conditions, rather than reduce flash visible to others.

    When I am out shooting on a sunny day, I cannot see flash from my FNH Five Seven. When I am shooting it at the indoor range I have membership to, the flash is very pronounced. Once again, we need abacab to weigh in on this, but I suspect environmental factors (time of day, weather) would have had more to do with flash visibility in the LV shooting than the characteristics of the rifle itself.

  26. Right. Muzzle flash on rifles.

    It’s highly, highly variable, and depends on a) any muzzle device, b) the propellant, and (which I discovered by remanufacturing some really flashy 1960’s Czechosolovakian 7.62×39 surplus into modern cases with new primers) the primer.

    There’s also sometimes a certain amount of “flash” (well, sparks really) with small particles of jacket material that come off at the muzzle and combust.

    You’ve got two types of flash, usually occurring simultaneously.

    Primary flash, which is still-burning powder, primer kak and so on. This is yellow. Simply having a barrel long enough for this to burn out is enough to do for it normally, particularly if the primers are clean-burning. So there’s not always primary flash present, particularly with longer barrels.

    And secondary flash, which is products of combustion of the propellant which are still flammable but aren’t burning in the barrel cos there’s no oxygen to combust them. Without a muzzle device you get a ball of yellowy (and sometimes pinkish) flame a few inches beyond the muzzle as the hot, flammable gases mix with air and burn. This is also highly dependent on the propellant and barrel length.

    What a flash suppressor does is it divides the gases leaving the muzzle sideways, splitting them and forcing them to mix with lots of air. Simply splitting them does reduce the intensity of any primary flash present. But the biggest effect is on secondary flash (which depending on the powder and barrel length can be HUGE or just a little pinky fireball). What they do there is make the fuel-air mixture that’s causing the secondary flash leaner, such that it doesn’t burn as well. Or less of it burns.

    The purpose is indeed twofold – to prevent the shooter from blinding himself, and also to make it harder to locate him. But a normal design can never eliminate flash completely, and even if it did, there’s still a little sparking from jacket metal particles every so often.

    Anyone interested in this topic should watch some youtube videos demonstrating various flash suppressors. Here’s one to get you started: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JkmWVCd674

  27. As I understand at this latest shooting, the local police had some difficulty working out just where the shooter was. She confusion didn’t help, one person claims to have tried to phone 911 and say that the shooter was next door or nearly so to him in the Hotel, but couldn’t get through. Once they worked out the location they stormed the place pretty promptly, made more difficult by the gunman deliberately blocking off doorways and stairs as best they could. A hotel security man attempted to break in before the police arrived and was shot in the leg through the door. When the police arrived and began breaking down the door the gunman shot himself.

    I don’t think it’s fair to say that, in this case, they waited. The gunman had a shitload of ammo, and i don’t think had fired the lot, although the number of targets must have dissipated considerably.

  28. Bloke in North Dorset

    Thanks abacab.

    So nothing much has changed since the SLR which had flash suppressors.

    I still think it will take th untrained a long time to have the balls to look up and try to see a flash and then report it.

  29. @BiND – there’s better designs around now, but most militaries are still using old-style birdcage types. Some SA80’s were being fitted in theatre with twisty vortex types which do work better but precluded fitting the bayonet.

  30. @ Dennis
    Roosevelt proposed Lend Lease after the USA had bled the UK of 90% of its gold reserves in 1914-7 and 1939-41 including making Britain pay for dome obsolete ships that it had sold to France before its surrender but not delivered with the threat that it would otherwise deliver them to the puppet Vichy regime. Any decent history course would teach you that it wasan’t Roosevelt’s “New Deal” that rescued the US economy but building and selling weapons to the UK in 1939-41.

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