Well, turns out Ian Smith was right then

In the early 1980s I interviewed the undoubtedly racist Ian Smith, who led Rhodesia with white minority rule from 1965 to its reincarnation as Zimbabwe in 1979. How would Mugabe do, as leader, I asked him? “He will be there for at least 30 years, murder or imprison all of his opponents and bankrupt the country”, was the terse reply. Not a terribly bad call, really.

Smith’s solution wouldn’t have worked either but still…..

61 thoughts on “Well, turns out Ian Smith was right then”

  1. I’m happy to celebrate Bugame’s departure – I’d be delighted to see him swinging from a tree. But what are the odds that whoever replaces him will be any less of an incompetent kleptocrat?

  2. So Much For Subtlety

    It was always obvious Smith was right. He was a pretty sensible and fairly level headed man. Hardly a ranting lunatic anyway.

    The issue was not whether he was wrong or not – only a small number of Marxists thought he was wrong. The question was whether the West had the guts to stand up for its values or it was going to p!ss away everything in empty moral posturing. We chose to take a vacuous stand in favour of Virtue Signalling. And the people of southern Africa are paying the price.

    The Blacks of South Africa are the richest Blacks in Africa. They can look to Zimbabwe to see what their future will be. Future historians will, no doubt, point out Western slavery was the least bad option.

  3. Ian Smith a racist? I don’t think so.

    He wanted what was best for Rhodesia at the time and that was the country not being raped and pillaged by Marxists. Almost 40 years on and the Marxists have plundered the country so much so that there is now fuck all left. But Ian Smith was a white bloke in Africa so therefore he must be racist…oh FFS.

  4. “the undoubtedly racist Ian Smith,”

    That the same could be said of any African leader is not to be mentioned.

  5. Rhodesia had a small but growing black middle class with even a few black barristers. Had Smith been left alone, by now Rhodesia might have been a prosperous African paradise with blacks there living very well indeed compared to the socialist shithole that is the contemporary reality.

  6. But what are the odds that whoever replaces him will be any less of an incompetent kleptocrat?

    Perhaps he will be a black Nick Clegg?

  7. Solid Steve 2: Squirrels of The Patriots

    Well, yes.

    Enoch Powell was right too.

    If these guys were “racists”, well, so was Nelson Mandela, Winston Churchill, Jesus Christ, and everyone else who ever noticed reality.

    Race is real and pretending it isn’t, or that we are or can be all eekwulz, is turning out as disastrous as Lysenkoism. Notice how white liberals don’t celebrate the New South Africa anymore.

  8. Smith’s solution wouldn’t have worked either

    Only because African blacks are so racist they won’t accept white rule, even if it is manifestly in their own best interest.

    Rhodesia’s blacks had the same democratic rights as they would had they lived in other African nations. They also had a vastly higher standard of living, not just being wealthier, but also being able to live in safety and under the rule of law.

    Leave Africa to the Africans. Don’t get involved, don’t send them a single penny. If they end up starving, murdered or breaking their backs labouring for the Chinese, it is their own fault.

  9. So Much For Subtlety

    MC – “Leave Africa to the Africans. Don’t get involved, don’t send them a single penny. If they end up starving, murdered or breaking their backs labouring for the Chinese, it is their own fault.”

    I agree with your post entirely. Except that the UN thinks there will be 4 billion Africans pretty soon. They are not going to stay in Africa – and our elites are too gutless to prevent them moving to Cricklewood.

    The solution is Africa for Africans but it is only half the solution. The other half is Europe for Europeans. Otherwise Zimbabwe is Britain’s future as well.

  10. “Leave Africa to the Africans.”

    There’s a good argument for embargoing the entire continent,South of the Sahara. Just leave them to get on with it. Go back in a century or so & there’d be nobody there. Millions of square miles of good farmland & endless untouched mineral resources. An enormous benefit to humanity.
    Airdropping small arms & copious supplies of ammunition could hasten the process, though.

  11. SMFS – cutting that foreign aid budget will free up cash that could be used for the navy. Or to shore up friendly North African despots.

    Of course this is all easier said than done. A substantial proportion of Europeans seems to be afflicted with a death wish.

  12. So Much For Subtlety

    Speaking of accurate but racist assumptions, anyone following the poor Argentinian submarine? The one that went to sea with Argentina’s first female something or other officer?

    Turns out it has tried seven times to ring for help. But I am guessing that on the weekend there is no one in the Ministry of the Navy to pick up the damned phone.

    Poor [email protected] You have to be brave to go to sea in a submarine. Period. But you have to be braver to go to sea in one maintained by Argentinians. And commanded by Argentinians. Well, “commanded”. And even braver to go to sea in a submarine when no one is at the other end to pick up your distress call.

    Still on the bright side, at least the San Juan was built by Germans. In 1983. Their soldiers might be crap but their pilots were brave. Some of their sailors are braver still.

  13. So Much For Subtlety

    On 18 November 2017 the Ministry of Defense revealed that it received seven attempts at communication from the submarine through a satellite phone. The calls ocurred between 10:52 and 15:42 local time, but were not linked with Argentine Naval bases.

    I know Latins like their long lunches but that is ridiculous.

  14. What makes Africa so bad is that Africans would rather be ruled by the worst of their own tribe than the best of another. A bit like Democrats.

  15. Let’s play a little game. Imagine that we can say whites are better than blacks when we loom across the entire populations. What the fuck good does that do for a Thick.Racist.Prick like SMFS?

  16. On 18 November 2017 the Ministry of Defense revealed that it received seven attempts at communication from the submarine through a satellite phone.

    Just so long as that was an actual phone, rather than the emergency beacon buoy using Inmarsat.

  17. It is not uncommon to hear ordinary blacks from ex-colonies express a wish for a return to the good old days. I heard it from blacks in Zimbabwe, my parents also heard it in Uganda. They are able to contrast their lives under white rule with their lives under black rule and find the former much more preferable.

  18. Edward Lud: “Oh hell. I live in Cricklewood.”

    So did the Goodies.

    And knocking down the Post Office tower or not I’d still rather have them as neighbours than the dross of the Dark Continent.

  19. So Much For Subtlety

    Ironman – “Let’s play a little game. Imagine that we can say whites are better than blacks when we loom across the entire populations. What the fuck good does that do for a Thick.Racist.Prick like SMFS?”

    Because the Truth shall make you free? The truth is a worthy goal in and of itself.

    However I want my descendents to live in a civilised country. Rhodesia, not Zimbabwe. Which means that the population of Britain has to remain British instead of becoming Zimbabwean. So the quicker everyone gets rid of the absurdly, suicidally, pathologically naive views that you push around here, the better.

    I have no problems with Africans living like Africans want to. I object to my country being turned into Africa. It is bad enough we have child sacrifice, acid throwing, and FGM already.

  20. Er, Tim, that link doesn’t seem to have any relevance to the post.

    At least, I don’t see any connection between Rod Liddle writing about transphobia and Zimbabwe.

  21. Mr Bison, I came to live here because I wanted to tread the same hallowed, bubblegum begrimed and vomit splattered streets as he.

    Then I found out he lived in Belsize Park.

  22. As usual Ironman turns up to defend savages running nations into the ground and insult anyone who points this out.

    Well done Ironman.

    As someone else pointed out, why is it you don’t live is South Africa any more?

  23. “Ironman

    Let’s play a little game. Imagine that we can say whites are better than blacks when we loom across the entire populations.”

    How about we stick to this?

    Whites seem much better at running countries the way whites prefer them to be run and I’d prefer that the UK carries on being run that way.

    There are plenty of countries to move to if you’d prefer to live in a country not being run the way whites prefer them to be run.

    If you aren’t aware of any difference, you’ll be off to live in a country in the latter group?

  24. Andrew C,
    Nicely put.

    However, “Whites seem much better at running countries the way whites prefer them to be run” has been true only for a few decades. The worst of the 20th Century was caused by white countries, not black, and the affects are still felt.

    Zimbabwe is black culture + white politics (socialism), white money and white guns.

    The worst of white culture has been corrected. The worst of black culture certainly has not, as we can see in certain US cities, as well as much of black Africa.

    Tribe-based kleptocratic despotism is always going to be a disaster. Pointing that out is not “racism”.

  25. Jack C: Japan, especially the occupation of Manchuria?
    Russia, the Revolution, Stalin, very definitely not part of the European mainstream, arguably Asiatic.
    China: Cultural Revolution, Great Leap Forward?
    Total death toll?

  26. The one thing wrong with Ian Smith’s solution was that in the end, he backed down from the relatively sensible system of merit-based suffrage, and moved towards ‘power sharing’ and compromise.

    I don’t know if Canaan Banana was really a homosexual as alleged by the communist regime, but he certainly was not up to the standards of even a regular mid-level civil servant under Smith in the 70s.

  27. @ Ljh
    Stalin was undeniably a Caucasian.
    If you really want a homicidal maniac dictator who was Asiatic, try Pol Pot.
    I think Jack C is talking about Hitler who was third or fourth worst.
    For some really nasty, but smaller scale, African operators you could add Haile Mariam Mengistu in Ethiopia, Joseph Kony (“Lord’s Resistance army”) in Uganda and Mugabe himself.

  28. @john77: Stalin was indeed a Georgian, but the majority of his ‘Old Bolshevik’ comrades and the communists who formented revolution in Romania and Hungary and Germany were not Russian.. or Caucasian.. or Romanian, Hungarian, or German.

    There are a couple reasonable criticisms of Stalin. One is that he did not take steps to shut down the evil activities of the Comintern and draw Soviet attentions inward, which could have prevented the German preemptive strike becoming necessary. The other is that some of the real ‘Prime Evils’ within the Soviet government, like Holodomor perpetrator Lazar Kaganovich, were not dealt with, on account of their loyalty to him.

  29. @ Paul Rain
    There are hundreds of reasonable criticisms of Stalin – that some of his colleagues were, by race, Jewish is *not* one of them.

  30. Solid Steve 2: Squirrels of The Patriots

    Jack – “The worst of the 20th Century was caused by white countries”

    This is an interesting point, and I reckon two things:

    * The *capacity* for a modern, industrial, wealthy, technological society to do extensive harm in a short period of time is much greater than a primitive society’s. Hitler was worse than Genghis or Attila ever were over a similar timeframe because he could be.

    * Ultimately, it doesn’t matter. It’s sort of like how xenophiles will sometimes unfavourably compare British chavs with (insert supposedly superior immigrant group here). It doesn’t matter because we are what we are and we can’t expect Bantus or Belizians to “be” us.

    White people should be concerned about the welfare and posterity of white people because we’re white, because we’re a small minority on this planet – a widely despised minority at that – and because we owe it to our children not to hand over their birthright to foreigners, particularly the rapey kind in Rotherham or the stabby kind in Slough or the acid-attacky kind in Hackney – not because of (real or imagined) racial superiority.

    “Good for the Jews or bad for the Jews?” is a sensible question, and one that you don’t need to be Jewish to appreciate and modify to your ethnic group of non-choice.

  31. Bloke in North Dorset

    I spent 6 months teaching at the Zimbabwe School of Signals starting the day after the independence vote. The class was a mixture of Zipra, but not Zanla, former guerrillas, whites who’d fought, blacks who’d fought with whites and blacks and whites who hadn’t fought and a few coloureds. There was even a white South African girl who was gay and had emigrated to Zimbabwe because it was more tolerant. The blacks and whites who’d fought against each other got on remarkably well, with one of the very well educated blacks helping a struggling former Selous scout, even though they reckoned they had been in a firefight against each other. I think I got to know a very broad spectrum of the people and would have gone to live there if the writing hadn’t been on the wall even then.

    Anyone who thinks there weren’t any serious racists there is delusional. We were in a bar in the Rhodes Matapos hotel when a white guy pulled a gun and started threatening blacks who he reckoned were on his patch. That was the worst of many incidents similar incidents and what they said in private was appalling, and I don’t mean just claiming they were incapable of running a country.

    The problem was that the system attracted serious racists from all over the world, and they were made welcome. Third and higher order generation whites tended to be more patronising than out and out racist, but it was still a largely whites only privileged society when it came to the best jobs, schools, healthcare etc. and its not surprising that there was a war.

    DocBud,

    “It is not uncommon to hear ordinary blacks from ex-colonies express a wish for a return to the good old days. I heard it from blacks in Zimbabwe, my parents also heard it in Uganda.”

    I worked for some ex-MK guys on a GSM licence bid in 1999, just before the second general election. My wife joined me for a week’s holiday in the Kruger National Park. One evening I was in the bar waiting for her and asked the barmaid if she was looking forward to voting. She was probably in her mid ’50s and I was taken aback by the vehemence of her answer.:No, she wanted a return to how it was because of the violence and corruption that had already become endemic.

    Even while I was in Zimbabwe there were similar mutterings, especially from the coloureds and, ironically, there were lots of complaints of whites taking black’s jobs eg in filing stations. What is often missed about both Rhodesia and SA is that each country also had a very poor white underclass, although not as poor as blacks.

  32. @john77: And where, pray, do you read that from what I said?

    Most of the people Stalin executed deserved it, and many of them were those who had been responsible for the worst atrocities. Obviously, there was a distinctly non-Russian character to the execution ‘victims’ as a result.

  33. BiND: “it was still a largely whites only privileged society when it came to the best jobs, schools, healthcare etc. and its not surprising that there was a war.” Would you suggest that the level of service provided to that segment of the population with an IQ around 80 was better, or worse, than that provided by neighbouring countries where the ruling group also had an IQ around 80?

    If better, or no worse, why would a serious war have necessarily continued if the UK had not deliberately destroyed the country barely a decade before the Soviet Union fell?

  34. Bloke in North Dorset

    Paul,

    I admit I’ve had a couple of large glasses of wine (well it is my birthday:) ), but I haven’t got a fucking clue what you’re trying to say.

  35. Think it was Boris j who said “ the problem with Africa is not that it was once part of the British Empire, but that it no longer is”
    Rhodesia once the breadbasket of Africa -will it ever be again?

  36. @ Paul Rain
    I read your comment!
    It may be possible for some irrational person to come to a different conclusion, but I have spent decades as an investment analyst so I look at facts.
    “the majority of his ‘Old Bolshevik’ comrades and the communists who formented revolution in Romania and Hungary and Germany were not Russian.. or Caucasian.. or Romanian, Hungarian, or German.”
    That is not actually true but most of the minority who were not “Russian or … German” were atheists of Jewish descent – I fail to remember any Africans, Indians or Chinese among the “Old Bolsheviks”.
    As to your claim that “Most of the people Stalin executed deserved it” that does NOT qualify for a ROFL because it is NOT funny. Thirteen milion killed in the holodomor and millions killed for no reason at all or because a parent was middle-class overwhelm by hundreds or thousands to one all the evil Bolsheviks executed by Stalin when he got paranoid about his inner circle.

  37. @john77: Fair enough, it’s probably hyberbolic to claim that a majority of the people killed under Stalin deserved it, but it’s also absurd to blame the Holodomor solely on Stalin. It also wasn’t solely the product of the commissars on the ground and their leaders, most of whom rightly got the bullet later on, but they were the ones who had created the environment of hatred which caused it all to occur.

    It’s true that he was not vigorous enough in killing the people like Kaganovich, and Trotsky, and Lenin, who were responsible for the evil deeds of the USSR for their own evil reasons. But it’s not like he pulled a Roosevelt, and handed half a continent over to communist rule.

    BiND- Given that Rhodesia treated blacks better than any neighbouring country, and better than they can ever conceivably do on their own, why do you feel that any war would have continued on after the collapse of the communist masters of ZIPRA? If the traitors in the UK hadn’t constantly undermined reasonable government there, why would it ever have fallen?

  38. @ Paul Rain
    It is NOT absurd to blame the holodomor solely on Stalin even though others were also guilty since he had supreme command and commanded it.
    “It’s not like he pulled a Roosevelt …” WTF? He *was* the evil communist that seized half a continent in 1945 *after* seizing the Baltic states and half of Poland in cahoots with Hitler in1939.
    You need to be insane to defend Stalin after Nikita Kruschchev blew the gaff on him.
    He was quite vigorous enough in killing Trotsky.

  39. @ Paul Rain
    The Berlin Wall fell several years after Mrs Thatcher defeated Harold Wilson’s successor. So your response to BiND is nonsensical.
    The traitor Driberg was Chairman of the Labour Party not Leader.
    UDI was only partially due to Harold Wilson, who spent WWII as a civil servant in bomb shelters, calling Ian Smith, a volunteer RAF pilot, as a “small frightened man”.
    The economic attack on Southern Rhodesia was largely fuelled by US tobacco interests since Southern Rhodesia produced high quality “Virginia tobacco” which was sold at a much cheaper price than that grown in the USA: the supposedly ethical sanctions meant that the USA and its followers chose to import chromium from the horrendous Albanian regime under Hoxha in preference to Ian Smith’s moderate regime.

    Please try to be factually correct on this blog, at least some of the time.

  40. So Much For Subtlety

    john77 – “That is not actually true but most of the minority who were not “Russian or … German” were atheists of Jewish descent”

    Why is it so hard to say that they were Jews? They were not atheists (which is a belief) of Jewish (which is also an ethnic category) descent as such. They had ID cards and on their ID cards was their ethnicity. Which was, often, Jewish.

    Don’t take my word for it. Take Putin’s:

    http://www.jpost.com/Jewish-World/Jewish-News/Putin-First-Soviet-government-was-mostly-Jewish-317150

    Russian President Vladimir Putin said that at least 80 percent of the members of the first Soviet government were Jewish.

    “I thought about something just now: The decision to nationalize this library was made by the first Soviet government, whose composition was 80-85 percent Jewish,” Putin said June 13 during a visit to Moscow’s Jewish Museum and Tolerance Center.

    What a wonderful occasion to lecture Jews on the Jewish nature of the Communist government. But I digress. Putin is obviously wrong. The government wasn’t that Jewish. But it was heavily Jewish or at least non-Russian. The first Politburo of the Soviet Union was made up of seven men: Lenin, Trotsky, Zinoviev, Kamenev, Stalin, Sokolnikov, and Bubnov. Bubnov was Russian. Trotsky, Zinoviev, Kamenev and Sokolnikov were Jewish. Stalin was, of course, Georgian. And Lenin, with his Jewish grandmother is usually classified as a Russian. Let’s say four and a half out of seven.

  41. So Much For Subtlety

    Bloke in North Dorset – “Anyone who thinks there weren’t any serious racists there is delusional. …. The problem was that the system attracted serious racists from all over the world, and they were made welcome. Third and higher order generation whites tended to be more patronising than out and out racist, but it was still a largely whites only privileged society when it came to the best jobs, schools, healthcare etc. and its not surprising that there was a war.”

    Ummm, so? I am sure all that is true. I am sure that it did attract racists. I am sure that some experience with Africa made even more people racists. And undoubtedly the system was set up to provide welfare for Whites.

    Now in most of Africa you have a system set up to provide welfare for the ruling tribe. Whatever else you can say about those nasty White racists, they did not try to solve their problems by murdering every Black person with an education. What we might call the Burundi solution. Much less all of them as in the Rwandan solution. Corrupt systems ruled by a minority is the norm in Africa. Rhodesia was one of the better examples.

  42. @ SMFS
    It is not hard to say that they were Jews – it is just wrong. Jews are defined by faith, not just by descent.
    So you think that you take Putin’s word for it? Vladimir Putin was born in October 1952, 35 years after the Bolsheviks overthrew the would-be democratic successors to the Imperial Government of Russia and less than 6 months before Stalin died, by which time almost all the old bolsheviks were dead

  43. It is not hard to say that they were Jews – it is just wrong. Jews are defined by faith, not just by descent.

    Jewishness is defined by both faith and descent. For instance, the Israeli government grants Israeli citizenship to anyone born to a Jewish mother, even to “atheists of Jewish descent”. Or maybe you’re more of an expert on Jewishness than the Israelis?

  44. Reds killed by reds inspire vastly more amusement than any sort of tears.

    And as for the wicked whites of Rhodesia –at their very worst they smell sweet indeed compared to the black Marxist trash of thieves and mass murderers that have replaced them.

    As for the Jewish contribution to Marxism. I can’t say I care about the type and origin of the perpetrators of socialist evil. Destroy them all and ultimately let God sort the evil bastards out.

  45. Bloke in North Dorset

    Paul Rain,

    It really was complicated and to a certain extent whites were caught up in a viscous war between two mostly tribal based cold war ideologies that were vying for supremacy.

    Beside their overall political ideologies, the main differences between the Zimbabwe People’s Revolutionary Army (ZIPRA), the armed wing of the pro-Soviet Zimbabwe African People’s Union (ZAPU), and ZANLA were that:

    ZANLA drew its recruits mostly from Shona-speaking ethnic groups.
    ZANLA followed a strategy of politicisation of the peasant population (inspired by the Maoist teachings of “protracted people’s war”).
    After about 1972, ZANLA introduced combatants into the country for long-term campaigns of guerrilla fighting, while ZIPRA was designed to be used as a conventional armed force: entering the country, striking and pulling back to its bases in Zambia and Angola.
    During the late 1970s, the predominantly Shona tribe ZANLA fighters were deployed in the Matabeleland and midlands provinces, areas where the predominantly Ndebele ZIPRA mostly operated. There were a lot of clashes between the two forces. ZANLA fighters were well known for their savagery when it came to dealing with Ndebele civilians who were usually taken into what were called overnight bases and forced to sing songs in Shona denouncing ZAPU and its leader Joshua Nkomo.

    That is why so many blacks were prepared to fight alongside the Smith regime, not because they supported it but because they knew what was coming once those two factions had beaten a common enemy.

    Could it have been done differently and power handed over peacefully in, say, the ’60s in a planned way? I doubt it because as I said it was as much an extension of the cold war as it was a fight against a white regime. And of course there’s all the problems of the white man’s borders ignoring tribal borders.

    As an aside, more than a few blacks who been trained in Russia or by Russians in camps in Africa reckoned they were by far the biggest racists they’d come across. When in Russia they used to get spat at and have monkey noises made at them as they walked around the streets.

  46. I knew a number of Zimbabweans (and other black Africans) in Moscow in the 90s. And yes, the Russians were indeed racist. Very much so. Perhaps not quite to Saffa standards but very much more than would have been tolerated in the UK even at that time, let alone today.

  47. So Much For Subtlety

    john77 – “It is not hard to say that they were Jews – it is just wrong. Jews are defined by faith, not just by descent.”

    A more accurate way of saying that is “clown nose on, clown nose off”. You have been bullied into buying into the preferred Jewish discourse – everything bad done by Jews is not done by *real* Jews. Trotsky was a Jew. He thought he was a Jew. Stalin and Lenin thought he was a Jew. The Soviet State thought he was a Jew. Hitler thought he was a Jew. The State of Israel today would consider him a Jew. Not a single Left Wing Jew ever denied Trotsky et al were Jews until it became politically embarrassing. Then the clown nose came off and the No True Scotsman Fallacy came out.

    No one defined Jews by faith alone by the way. When the Lubbavitchers reach out to Jews who are not observant they do so precisely because they are Jews who should believe but don’t. They do not reach out to Catholics. Even if they are former Catholics.

    “So you think that you take Putin’s word for it?”

    No. I just think it is hugely funny that Putin would think it was appropriate to go to the openning of a Jewish museum and blame the Jews for Communism. Maybe he was praising them?

  48. For serious, hard core, unwavering, ‘these are not really humans’ level racism towards blacks you need to go east. Mongolia, China, Japan.

  49. @ SMFS
    It is possible to be a Jew without being descended from Jews (although Moabite converts are not fully accepted for the first three generations). Many Russian Jews were, racially, Slavs. You have clearly forgotten Sammy Davis Jr and overlooked Ivanka Trump.
    @ Jerry C
    YMBJ
    Israeli citizenship is *not* the same as being a Jew. There is a Board of Deputies of British Jews – who comprise British subjects not Israeli citizens – which is affiliated to the World Jewish Congress. I tend to assume that they know whether or not they are Jews but you seem to think that you know better.

  50. So Much For Subtlety

    john77 – “It is possible to be a Jew without being descended from Jews (although Moabite converts are not fully accepted for the first three generations). Many Russian Jews were, racially, Slavs. You have clearly forgotten Sammy Davis Jr and overlooked Ivanka Trump.”

    I couldn’t care less what they were racially. What they thought they were was Jewish. I have overlooked neither. They are not relevant.

  51. @ SMFS
    I have to bow to your superiority in mind-reading – I cannot read the minds of living people, let alone those who died before I was born.
    I was discussing whether Russia (or pendantically, the Soviet Union under Lenin and Stalin) should be considered “white”. You are arguing about whether those of Jewish descent are Jews. The two categories are demonstrably different and I do not see why a demonstration of that fact is irrelevant to that argument although it is indeed irrelevant to the predictability of Mugabe’s habit of murdering his opponents and ruining the country.

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