Well, yes

The notable collapse of a series of rape trials could endanger future convictions of genuine rapists because of reduced public trust in the justice system, the former head of the judiciary has warned.

Lord Judge, who was lord chief justice in England and Wales from 2008 to 2013, said juries may start doubting the quality of evidence presented to them in court after several high-profile rape cases collapsed owing to blunders by police and the CPS.

So, stop fucking up the trials then.

And do note that this is the point of juries. Exactly and precisely to note when the average bod in the street thinks that the legal system is wrong, unbalanced, taken over by the fanatics. That fanaticism being that all penetrative sex without written consent is rape, that those who believe in transubstantiation instead of consubstantiation (or the reverse) should be burnt at the stake or people should be hung for stealing goods to the value of 5 shillings and a penny.

Juries going “Nah, fuck off mate” isn’t an error, it’s the point.

32 thoughts on “Well, yes”

  1. So Much For Subtlety

    A police chief recently defended the lack of prosecutions for Female Genital mutilations by saying that the crime was nuanced.

    F*ck them all. As Tim N says, they are not on our side. At least for now we, as potential jury members, have the power to do something about it. As American juries did in the Bundy case and in the Ruby Ridge case. We won’t for long.

  2. Having sat on a jury during a sexual attack case, the jury and myself were left wondering what exaclty did the police have as evidence and why fucking great parts of what should have been investigated were not bothered with.

    The police thought young well spoken pretty posh girl against an immigrant with poor english was enough.

  3. Bloke in North Dorset

    The problem is that these aren’t even going to trial, the CPS is dragging out the decision and in the most egregious cases not even sharing evidence.

    They don’t trust juries so they’ve made the process the punishment.

  4. Cage Saunders and the CPS gang at the top.

    Who were put in place and given the green light for their antics by the FFC herself while Home Seceretary. Who has–as it becomes tedious to point out–form for swallowing and regurgitating Marxist femminist bullshit in the HoC.

  5. This should be a worry because the pressure for convictions is not going to go down. Its gone up considerably. And whether Lord Judge is right and juries will become more cynical about evidence in such cases or not I foresee jury selection being the way the more convictions faction will seek to achieve their quotas.

  6. I think, from the point of view of the professionals, it _must_ be an error. Otherwise what is the point of law school, slaving as a pupil and then a junior at the bar, grovelling to all the right people to get silk and then working your way through the ranks of Prosecutors or Judges if twelve utter normal people, who’ve probably only, if ever, worn a wig as a joke, can tell you and all your experience and expensive CPD to, “Nah, fuck off, mate”?

  7. Since when was withholding exonerating evidence a “blunder”? Methinks there should be a few coppers and prosecutors in the dock for perverting the course of justice.

  8. ‘On Monday a rape trial against Samson Makele was halted after his defence found mobile phone images showing him apparently cuddling in bed with his accuser.’

    This is tasteless, at minimum. Why publish his name?

    Equivalent to headline, “Tim Worstall is not a rapist.”

  9. “These events may reduce the prospects of conviction even when the allegation is genuine.” Lord Judge.

    One has to wonder about the mental processes inserted “even” into that sentence.

  10. Mr in Spain, good spot.

    SE, depends. I think you’d be surprised how many barristers recognise that juries simply don’t like some prosecutions. And how many are relaxed about it.

    And remember, it was Jerry Hayes prosecuting who made sure the relevant material was disclosed in that recent case. Yes, it should’ve happened before it got to that stage, but it happened because a proper prosecutor took the right decision.

  11. Rickie,

    Perhaps that was enough evidence!

    I’ve always disapproved of the complainant’s anonymity except in the vase of a minor, and by that, I don’t mean a slag two days from her 16th birthday, or who has run away with her teacher.

    If anonymity is granted, then the accuser must be uncloaked if the prosecution fails in a way that showed that the accuser lied, and the accuser must be subject to at least the same punishment as the accused would have got in the case of a guilty verdict. Plus, the accused must have an automatic right to damages for loss of reputation and other inconveniences.

    As for the concealment of exonerating evidence, the prosecutor and team must be jointly and severally liable for damages, and I mean individuals paying up, not the taxpayer footing the bill. Concealment of evidence normally involves a conspiracy, which makes it even more serious.

  12. It’s hard to believe that prosecutors ‘forgot’ to supply the key evidence which exonerates the defendant. In fact it’s impossible.

    The only reason this isn’t a massive scandal is the Who, Whom aspect.

  13. Witchie: vase, case, tomato, potatoh.

    Is there enough assembled talent here to help set up a comment edit system for / with Tim?

    I f12ed the site, scanned the downloads and found only “?live-comment-preview.js” which seems to be a wordpress plug in. If Tim’s site is based on a wordpress template then this should do it “http://www.wpbeginner.com/plugins/allow-users-edit-comments-wordpress/”

    anyone else got any ideas?

    Or maybe Tim likes us to display our spelling, typing and proofing incompetence.

  14. @Witchie,if you saw how the girl dressed when she first appeared in court, tight short dress, high heels, it was obvious she thought that image would lead the jury in one direction.

    Cutting a long story short…it was about a young girl who thought chatting up a taxi driver which included a stop on the journey to have a fag together would lead to a free fare.

    perhaps it worked before who knows….the jury took 2 mins to decide and another 2 hours having tea and sandwiches

  15. The girls parents stared the jury out for 3 days….when the verdict was announced their faces showed no emotion.

    The only emotion was the obvious relief of the taxi driver and his wife who ran in the courthouse reception after hearing the verdict screaming his name with kids running in after her.

    He made errors of judgement for sure…she was using her sex appeal to blag a free fare.

  16. I’m not English, so this must have been commented on endlessly in the past.

    His name’s Igor Judge and he became a judge?

  17. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nominative_determinism#Empirical_evidence

    Those with fitting names give differing accounts of the effect of their name on their career choices. Igor Judge, former Lord Chief Justice of England and Wales, said he has no recollection of anyone commenting on his destined profession when he was a child, adding “I’m absolutely convinced in my case it is entirely coincidental and I can’t think of any evidence in my life that suggests otherwise.”

  18. BiS

    One has to wonder about the mental processes inserted “even” into that sentence.

    Quite terrifying to contemplate….Well spotted.

  19. The Unused Testicle

    Blimey, first “vases” now “Belford”s. Not forgetting Judge Lord Judge.

    Where’s the gin? And sod the tonic.

  20. @Rickie “a young girl who thought chatting up a taxi driver which included a stop on the journey to have a fag together would lead to a free fare.”

    I thought you were going to tell the story of the female passenger who arrived at her destination and told the driver she had no money.

    “How you going to pay” He asked

    “With this” she announced, whipping her skirt up and knickers off before spreading her legs on the back seat.

    Taxi driver looked, grimaced and said “you got anything smaller, love?”

  21. He wanted paying and a cuddle…she was fucking outraged.

    The jury experience took me by surprise….deciding on someone being a sexual predator was stressful, a lot more than i would have thought.

    After the fun of seeing the wigs and the courtroom and other jury members… seeing the terrified accused soon turns the atmosphere a lot more serious.

    The she turns up all tits and arse and high heels talking like her who does “wanted down under” on the BBC.

    He needed a translator during the trial but decided to talk for himself at one point..

    Facinating, gripping, and stressful….nearly 3 weeks off work over 2 cases.

  22. My recent jury experience was very similar, Rickie (though with much less serious cases) – fellow jurors included a black street sweeper from Milton Keynes and a naturalised French ex-pat, but everyone took it very seriously.

    The modern problem is that (at least for lengthy cases) juries are effectively reduced to those who are either unemployed or retired, which can’t be a good thing.

  23. Wasted a day on Jury Service once. Wasted cos we never got to hear the case–dropped on some legal technicality after hours of argument apparently –and we spent 5 minutes in court.

    Most memorable thing was how dirty the Judges wig was. It looked like it had been used as the filter in a smoking machine. A dirty “pub ceiling ” yellow–brown. You don’t see that on the TV trials. Maybe they should hire actors to play Judges and let a computer do the legal side. Couldn’t be much worse than the real Judges , would be much cheaper and the actors would at least manage to be properly magisterial –as on TV.

  24. My case wasn’t serious…sexual assault was not rape or anywhere even near it.

    The stress was some poor bastard would be convicted of being a sex predator on …well next to nothing even if we believed her version of it.

    You can’t ruin someones life/job/marriage on a fucking fumble/cuddle cos some flirty bird don’t want to pay for a taxi

  25. @Mr Ecks
    There’s serious competition among senior members of the legal profession over who has the tattiest wig and gown. You were obviously seeing a future law lord in the making.

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