Much brain power is being overused in attempting to make the US tech giants contribute more to Her Majesty’s Revenue. The initial complaint, that the current international business taxation system doesn’t deal well with digital, is entirely correct – it doesn’t.

The problem is that almost all of the suggested solutions to this inconvenience run up against two rather harsh economic facts. One is that businesses never really pay any tax at all, and the other is that the problem of not paying any taxes at all is already largely solved.

If only Ritchie could grasp both points, eh?

In other news, am doing a piece for the Independent, writing my little fingers off at Continental Telegraph and how are you all?

Yes, things will happen here once we’ve got that running……

68 thoughts on “Elsewhere”

  1. Is the CT going to open up for other writers, submissions? What’s the end game there? And the plan for this site?

  2. Put a link to the CT at the top of your blog. When I googled it yesterday it didn’t show up in the search results.

  3. Yes, getting that organised now. And we’re very keen on people reviewing things….books, games, music, tech stuff.

  4. @Alex – it’s a comment relating to tax incidence. Ultimately tax paid by a legal person impacts one or more natural persons by reducing the amount they get in their pockets. Some combination of employees, shareholders and customers.

  5. “If businesses never really pay any tax at all, how come so many have paid me and others large fees to reduce their tax bills?”

    It’s because the shareholders, who ultimately will economically suffer the tax, wanted them to.

    I’d slightly take issue with Tim’s language. It’s not quite right to say businesses don’t really pay tax, just as it’s not quite right to say businesses don’t really make a profit.

    The point (which is the substance of what Tim said) is that any cost (or profit) of a business is ultimately a cost of (or benefit to) a real person. That’s as true of tax as it is for everything else.

    That real person may be a shareholder, an employee, a supplier, a customer etc. But ultimately, somebody pays.

  6. Bloke in North Dorset

    Shareholders feel the first order effects of CT so they are the ones pushing for its reduction through their positions on the board.

    So when are you going to allow registration on CT? ISTR there was a signup early on but it appears to be missing now?

  7. There will be registration once we’ve got the tech side sorted. Those who have registered will get editable comments etc.

  8. Writing something for the Independent? Will it impart the kind of unwelcome facts that will guarantee no repeat invitation?

  9. “Will the CT be a Murphy-post free zone?”

    I suspect it will be but not because he would be banned. Murphy knows what happens when he steps outside the padded safety cell of his own blog.

  10. And a great many of the evil plutocrat owners of public companies are indirectly pensioners, perhaps most of them.

    Likewise many consumers are low income pensioners and a turnover tax will hit them just as hard as a real plutocrat consumer, meaning relatively harder.

    Why does Richard Murphy hate his grandmother?

  11. Here’s my first review, free!!!!

    Music – most of it is crap. So listen to Classical Music or, indeed, classical jazz – time has winnowed out most of the crap. Except Wagner, obviously.

  12. I’d definitely leave the ragging on Richie stuff here. Snark is ok, but snark about the same person week in week out is a bit off-putting.

  13. @Ben S.

    Snark about the same person week in week out is certainly off-putting.

    Doing it over thousands of posts for nearly a decade makes Tim look like a loon.

  14. Rickie, if somebody blogs nonsense about economics about 5 times every day and does not permit criticism or allow anyone to point out his errors, then it is performing a public duty to do so elsewhere. Otherwise people might get the impression that Murphy is an intelligent life form. You obviously have not noticed that every post about Spud points out a shocking, basic error. It is not abusive criticism.

  15. Rickie

    You will be aware of the poem:

    first they came for….and I did nothing etc etc

    Apply this to Murphy’s lunatic blogs, TV and radio appearances, newspaper comments, advice to various political parties, appearances at Holyrood (FFS!), indoctrination of his poor students etc etc.

    Where will or could it all end if left unchecked – Number 10?

    The man’s a fvcking ignorant and malign cvnt and potentially dangerous.

  16. It appears like abusive comments to me.

    Bloggers who do not permit criticism or allow anyone to point out their errors is how it is in blogland.

    I made a comnent about Tim s new website and that got censored and deleted, and because another poster agreed with me the thread got removed.

  17. I made a comnent about Tim s new website and that got censored and deleted, and because another poster agreed with me the thread got removed.

    Really? You’re the first person I can remember being censored here. Are you sure that you aren’t just incompetent?

  18. I’ve often thought the Ragging on Ritchie was the least fun part of this blog. But if it still annoys wankers, keep on keepin’ on…

  19. “the suggestions it is throwing up are really bad”

    Early days. The algorithms won’t know what works on that site, even if they do know a bit about you as a visitor.

  20. Obviously doesn’t know much about me.

    Not one single ad pointing me towards Rocco’s latest adventures with an appreciative young lady…..or startled farmyard animal.

  21. Doing it over thousands of posts for nearly a decade makes Tim look like a loon

    Many here concluded that you are a loon after a couple of your posts. You make NiV look sane…

  22. “Rickie

    It appears like abusive comments to me”

    Fuck off you pox-ridden cunt.

    That’s an abusive comment. When has Tim ever written that about Spud?

  23. Bloke in North Dorset

    “Doing it over thousands of posts for nearly a decade makes Tim look like a loon.”

    Nah, it makes the person who thinks they are writing serious commentary on tax, economics and just about every other subject under the, but has shown to be wrong in every case (when he’s writen about telecoms and IT I’ve pointed out his error) look like a loom.

    As others have sadi, Tim his carrying out a public service.

  24. Besides, its fun to read about how the Sage has got something else wrong.
    Have met people who have got something wrong, have got stuff wrong myself.

    Have never come across anyone who comes across with so many wrong things. He even outwrongs the Green Party, which a decade ago I would have said was impossible.
    Its like he has this mental capacity for reading or hearing about something and then writing / speaking about it in such a way as to show he has not zero grasp but entirely the wrong grasp of a subject.

    I’d stick him in charge of the UN effort on global warming, I could do with someone dealing with this ice age we have. Painfully cold outside.

  25. The Meissen Bison

    Captain Potato lives – but Blight Boy and Flea Beetle engage in the daily struggle here to bring him low.

    What could be more fun? And when a Maduro-style government in Westminster is entirely thinkable, can there be any excuse not to lampoon the fat-necked fopdoodle?

  26. I think the question is really. Rickie what do you think of LVT?

    Do you and DBC share the same nursing staff?

  27. @Tim. I’d suggest that one problem with CT is the timing of the articles. I (& I believe there are many like me) like to look at the news first thing in the morning & tend to read articles before the working day really starts. Since you comment on what you find in the newspapers, your content comes out too late for this golden period of the day. I do have time in the evening for reading, but really can’t be bothered to deal with the idiots you comment upon that late in the day.

  28. While we’re doing constructive criticism: the nested comments make it much harder to come back later and catch up with new comments.

    I agree it’s very nice to have replies in context. I don’t have any suggestions off the top of my head for how to keep that and order the comment list by time.

  29. Bloke in North Dorset

    Talking of Spud, I see he’s started writing titles to his blogs that allow us to apply Betteridge’s law of headlines to save reading the post.

    “In the last ten years the UK has subsidised pension saving by £481 billion. Wasn’t there a better use for that money?”

    It won’t in any awards for brevity though.

  30. Rickie –

    “I made a comnent about Tim s new website and that got censored and deleted, and because another poster agreed with me the thread got removed.”

    I’m astonished, as in I don’t believe you. Post both here and I bet they’re left up for us to laugh at.

  31. He did have a comment deleted. Can’t recall the detail but something along the lines of G. Soros should have been boiled down for soap. And not as a wry, or even very black, joke, but a seriously meant comment. He got told to fuck off too.

    Other than that…..

  32. The Meissen Bison

    p.s. I should have made clear that Blight Boy and Flea Beetle are purely fictional characters and are not meant to represent actual commenters on this blog or its host.

  33. “The Meissen Bison

    ‘Flea Beetle’?”

    Is there really a flea beetle?

    Paucity of thought in naming that. Just shoving two names of things together. Like calling a bird a sparrow pigeon. Or an animal a goat horse.

  34. Spud is getting humped mercilessly today on twitter and on his blog – his post on Maplins was extraordinarily bad even by his low standards. What fun it is to behold! I hope Rocco is filming

  35. “You’re the first person I can remember being censored here. ”

    Not the first. I can happily claim to have been censored by Tim..
    I’d made what would have been a light-hearted comment in repose to another comment. Without knowing that taken in context with tragic events in the poster’s personal life, it would have been highly offensive & distressing..
    So Tim nixed it & e-mailed with the explanation.
    Saved me from inadvertently being an utter cvnt.

  36. Tim is playing games….the deleted thread is back up.

    Maybe you can’t believe Tim don’t bugger about…..who cares, I have noT made any boiled down soap comment either.

    Registration will be on his new website…..thats censorship folks.

  37. Diogenes

    I always think the miserable commentator ‘Pilgrim Slight return’ is a spoof!! On the demise of Maplin…..

    ‘It’s infamy – that’s what it is.’

  38. Even better on the next thread,….

    Chris Duttaterri says:
    March 1 2018 at 9:23 am

    Richard, does this mean that you will be retiring?

    Richard Murphy says:
    March 1 2018 at 9:29 am

    I’m thinking of doing so

    But not before I am 83

    My God we have 25 years plus of this shit……

  39. Van_Patten.

    I will quite happily quit posting for you.

    Thousands of posts on Ragging Ritchie over a decade…the blokes a fucking loon , its nasty and spiteful.


  40. VP – the exchanges between Spud and PSR seem scripted and not very convincing, don’t they?

  41. Rickie

    Thanks for that! You are of course welcome here assuming you have something useful to say. I have never heard of Tim censoring anyone prior to this post. Contrast that with Murphy who has blocked more than 10,000 people on Twitter.

    Regarding the posting of thousands of screeds on Murphy, as it has often been said ‘For evil to triumph, all that is required is for good me to do nothing’ – Murphy’s utterances, his total indifference to individual liberty and worship of an almighty state certainly class him as evil by any stretch of the imagination. If to critique such a person makes him a ‘loon’ , F&&ing or otherwise it’s a label we’re all proud to share here.

  42. Not the first. I can happily claim to have been censored by Tim..

    Pendantry – ellipsis is three periods.

    Response – which is fine. You made a booboo. Tim helped you out and let you know. You were happy about it. Also, happy that the MGCE* was actually censored for something that was actionable. But it is still bloody rare. When you consider the sweary, the nutters, the sweary nutters (hi, Mr Ecks) and the downright morons (hi, DBC) who post here on a regular basis.

    * Mediocre Grade Cock End.

  43. Re PSR etc

    I’m convinced that one or two of the apparent regulars are spoofs. There are – how does one put it – simply too many coincidences? In the wording, where you suddenly think “he’s having a laugh”, and then it happens again, and again, whilst – all the time – otherwise playing at the usual sycophancy.

    Registration will be on his new website…..thats censorship folks.

    It’s just an option – you don’t have to?

    Rickie, before your spat with Longrider (“smoking” seemed to be the trigger word?), one could have been mistaken for thinking that you were enjoying posting / contributing? If you go onto a new place, with a new name, looks like one solution might be to keep off the fags..;)


    Chris Duttaterri? I’m struggling with that one – loads of near misses – anyone want to help me out? It’s always obvious because of certain letters, but…

    Sweary nutters – isn’t it normally anything other than what Tim might interpret (or could be perceived as) actual incitement of some description? ie, both personal and quite specific? The old classic approach to free speech?

  44. I think most regulars here regard Mr Ecks as Father Jack from Craggy Island. The Nazi approach of Rickie breaks the protocol. And he never adds anything to any discussion anyway.

  45. Murphy is indifferent to individual liberty. He’ll always find an excuse why you should not have it, but he goes further and would gladly sit idly by while family freedom of undermined, and small and medium sized groups. Self-governing territories of 100k people who enjoy free movement of capital with bigger countries cannot be allowed to set their own tax rates. The UK ( 70m people perhaps? ) cannot be permitted to be a low tax nation if it wants. He will not stop endorsing the suppression of sovereignty until there is a one world system. And even if you escape to Mars or to some cyber sphere with your own mutually agreed currency, his ilk will come for you. He is utterly relentless.
    The only way to stop him is to write to the people who fund him and who give him air time for they are the ones who are lapping his repressive dog-vomit off the pavement.

  46. Bongo I wrote a complaint to the vc of City Crap uni. His blog is private and nothing to do with them.

    They sell him to students for….. They are going to get sued soon.

  47. Bloke in North Dorset


    If academic freedom (indeed all freedoms) is to mean anything City University are correct. Spud may be wrong, and usually egregiously wrong, on just about every subject he opines, but it isn’t up to the university to gag him, especially his private blog.

    In his book Freedom in the Age of Terror, AC Grayling makes a powerful argument for not tolerating the intolerant, the intolerant being those who would use our freedom as a way of undermining those freedoms. Its an age old argument and I found myself nodding along with him until I stopped reading and reflected further,

    That doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t drop our guard or allow them the opportunity to make their arguments unchallenged (cf Islamaphobia and racist chucked around to stifle debate), but it doesn’t mean that we should expect CU to gag him.

    (his should be thrown back in their face whenever snowflakes demand that some speaker is banned and they should have trigger warnings and safe spaces.)

  48. The Meissen Bison

    BiND: …but it isn’t up to the university to gag him, especially his private blog.

    Quite so. However, this is not really about free speech. If a member of the faculty demonstrates that he is manifestly unqualified to teach because of his lamentable understanding of his subject, isn’t that a different matter.

    In other words, the college would not be justified in acting against Captain Potato for his opinions rather than on account of his incompetence.

  49. The purpose of my complaint was not to gag him just to point out his lack of knowledge – something you might expect a university lecturer to have

  50. Also, a few years ago someone sued the university of Oxford for not providing adequate teaching. He lost but that was basically a certainty since at Oxford you are really expected to teach yourself with supervision at intervals to ensure you keep on track. At City University, I imagine that the teaching is more about compulsory lectures and tasks so, to be able to demonstrate that one of your lecturers is a total incompetent in the subject he is teaching might be costly for the university. That was the crux of my complaint about his blog and, not surprisingly, they made no response to that .

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