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An interesting linguistic question

But Alison McGovern, an MP who is co-chair of Labour Campaign for the Single Market, called it an “excellent and clear” statement which sent out the message that “Tory Brexit is bad for us and we have to keep all aspects of the single market on the table and the possibility of a People’s Vote”.

Just what is a People’s Vote? is that where the people have to vote again and again until they reach the right damn answer?

35 thoughts on “An interesting linguistic question”

  1. I don’t like the “who funds you” question, but there does seem to be an awful lot of money behind the Peoples Vote machine.

    My dream is that there is a proper no-deal plan prepared and public – the Clean Exit (are we all allowed to make up labels).
    Then the EU offers some shitty deal and MPs reject. Then just as Cameron jumped after losing, hopefully we chuck May and get well anything-but-May to run Clean Exit.

    The fact that all those whinging about wanting a right to vote on the final deal have no interest in a proper no-deal plan tells you a lot about what they really want (A Fake EU exit aka FUexit)

  2. Rees ( the idiot ) Mogg thought it was a good idea .He was rather eloquent about it , believing no-one would be so stupid as to throw away decades of successful growth international relations and social progress in favour of a “something” tba
    La Thatch considered referendums a “device of demagogues and depots “ , true dat.
    In any case no-one did vote for us to leave the single market the customs unions the ECJ or the Court of Human Rights , many people voted actively not to , 48% actually .Rather over 50% now

    I don`t see the problem , we currently have about 50 nutty MPs and 70,000 senile Conservative members deciding what the coutry will look like forever , aided and abetted by a small coterie of equally loopy Bennite Socialists . The democracy in this eludes me ?

    If Brexit was really the ‘will of the people’, there should not be a problem

  3. I’m not happy with the results of last night’s football, and I demand a rematch. If we win again, FIFA should just declare the match void. Please write to your MP today.

  4. Save your shite Facepainter. You aren’t getting a re-run. YOU LOST and it is going to stick whether you like it or not.

    No one should have any doubt how the remain scum would arrange matters either . One clear choice to sell out and 20 choices about what kind of Brexit–and oh such a surprise –remain has the biggest single vote.

    You can have a civil war tho’ Facepaint. I would welcome it. Having to listen to womi trash like you spewing the traitorous contents of your poisoned souls for the past two years brings on the feeling that a brutal war will purify your evil in the flames.

  5. Andrew I am not happy with Mr Southgate , apparently he has expertise and experience
    I suggest we ignore his opinions and work .Lets ask a random selection of the senile and under educated to tell us what they”reckon”. If they prefer a team with only white people in it , then so be it , that my elitist chum , is democracy

  6. I would respond to Newmania but feeding a troll is a bad idea, and despite the issues with Brexit, I am looking forward to when either the expulsion of Hungary, the coming crisis in Algeria, the ongoing migrant crisis or the collapse of the Euro causes the entire thing to come crashing down.

    Then the ghosts of those killed at Srebrenica, or in the Ukraine can finally rest easy that the assiduously promoted myth of ‘peace in Europe via the EU’ has been laid to rest…

  7. PF -Brexit was supported was overwhelmingly old and the less well educated you were ,the more likely you were to vote for it . The Brexit voetsr was 8 times as likely to say his top concern was immigration ..and we know what that means

    Sorry if the truth is uncomfortable for you I`m sure Boris will construct another comfy cushion of lies if you ask him.

    Van Patten – Why did France not object to the reunification of Germany do you think ?Quite peacey helpey there I think

  8. So older more experienced people voted no, younger more gulliable people voted yes.

    The educational levels can’t be compared as far more people are retained in the education system these days, as opposed to getting real world experience as used to be the case.

  9. t it–you are aptly named remainiac.

    How terrible the young and foolish lost their chance to be EU conscripts.

    And as for not having my country invaded by literally millions of violent, rapey third world freeloaders–you can put that down as racism if you like tit–but it is highly likely that the pro-import crew are womiccumalobus dross who want cheap au pairs. And–if they live in Notting fucking Hill–come Carnival time they pay 3 grand to glaziers to board up windows and put up defensive bollards to protect their nice middle class gaffs against any of the vibrants invading their middle-class heaven.

    They give not a shite about the ordinary folk who have to live cheek-by-jowl with imported 3rd world standards of behaviour. Because womi scum just don’t give a shit about anyone except themselves and their fellow womi scumbags.

    You have–Tit- a vague echo of remain-sucking paid troll False Steve about you. Is it you Stevo?–has Project Fear 2.0 put you back on the payroll? Part-time now I suspect.

  10. Has any society in history screamed that people who want to govern themselves are stupid and uneducated and that the intelligent and sophisticated are right in wanting unelected faceless facist dictators to rule us?

    Hmm, that’ll be a no, then.

  11. I defy anyone to read Varoufakis’s book “Adults in the Room” and come away with the impression that the EU is a force for the good.

  12. Tit

    “the 8 times and rest of the nonsense”

    You’re being “selectve” – to put it politely – and very misleading with your claims. But, being a bright chap, I am guessing you understand that perfectly well already? People reading Tim’s blog aren’t daft, if that’s what you’re playing on?


    Remainiac is definitely Fake/EU Steve, or Steve Dot or whatever else it called itself at the time. We established that when Remainiac reappeared.

  13. PF–I think not.

    Newmania the Facepainter is not the same person as False Steve.

    They are both scum but they are not the same individual. Their antics differ. Facepainter is an arrogant entitled womi twat. False Steve is a sly pseudo-astroturfer. He doesn’t quite do the full “I agree with you BUT…” routine tho’ he was much more sly and cod “agreeable” than Facepaint ever has been.

  14. Remainers simply cannot grasp that the vote was fundamentally about liberty. Other factors were obviously in play, such as a desire to reduce the continuing effects of Blair’s evil and disastrous immigration policy, or to stick two fingers up at the political class and the cadre of ‘experts’ who prostituted themselves during Project Fear, but a yearning for self-determination was at the heart of it.

    This, like culture or a sense of nationhood, is accorded by the feminised, toffee-nosed left to everyone on Earth but those of English stock.

    Hard cheese, McGovern, we’re leaving. Find some new focus for your Stockholm Syndrome.

  15. Bloke in North Dorset

    Obviously not scientific but I don’t know anyone who vote to join in ‘75 and Remain this time. I knew a few who voted to join and then voted leave.

    That’s what happens to young people, they gain wisdom with age.

    As it happens Mrs BiND is the only person I know who didn’t vote to join in ‘75.

  16. A lot of young people voted remain because they would lose their supposed personal abilities to do things. Work, university etc (not that they actually would leave for Europe, since they can’t be bothered learning 2nd languages, but they’ve been sold the dream).

    Very few of the young said, “l voted remain because it is best for others, even though it costs me personally”. Older people did however do that in reverse — voted leave despite being against what was good in the short term for them personally.

    But apparently the naked egoism is good and altruism is bad now. It’s a black is really white kind of world in Remain

  17. Ecks

    Fake Steve started off here thinking he might be in persuade mode, “before” the referendum. The writing style then changed slightly (and he also became a lot more animated) as you repeatedly smacked him in the crutch..:)

    Remainiac, who posted “after” the referendum, was seriously pissed off / incredulous at the result.

    I remember (in a bored moment at the time) looking at the tell tale similarities and thinking it was too close for coincidence?

    Hey, you could be right? I don’t really care who or what these two characters are, it’s not that important..:)

  18. TF

    +1, although I would say “some” remainers.

    Quite a few (remainer) friends understand perfectly why others of us voted to leave. The ones that really know why they voted Remain (and admit it) tend towards unashamed supra-nationalists (or forms thereof); with both sides (exceptions obviously) happy to understand that we are simply trying to go in different directions?

  19. “Brexit was supported was overwhelmingly old and the less well educated you were ,the more likely you were to vote for it ”

    I’m afraid you’ve fallen into the trap of thinking that ‘having been to university’ also means ‘is more intelligent than someone who hasn’t been to university’.

    Apart from which, when ‘the old’ were of university going age, about 10-15% of their cohort went to uni, and now c. 50% go, so by definition if the young vote one way and the old vote the other, the weight of ‘educated’ people will appear to be with the young, purely as a result of the increase in university admissions.

    But a clever person like you would have known all that anyway……..

  20. I’m stupid and racist. And quite old. And my fiver is on the Isle of Bute murder suspect being a Mohammedan.

    Not that we should judge, nor nuffin.

  21. I’m delighrwd to see that Newmania is now a convert to Leave. By setting out the result of the last referendum and demanding we follow what the majority voted for he has shown he can only be a Leaver. Yes, there can be debate about what Leave means, but there can be no argument that a majority voted Leave whilst a minority voted Remain.

    It is so nice to see he and so many others pursuaded by the last those of us on this blog who have always been Leavers.

    Now perhaps he could tell us what he think Leave means. But in doing so he now must remember: Leave is the only option left available; the status quo is finished.

    Many hard Brexiteers approved Varoufakis’s recommendation simply to ignore Article 50.
    That showed they had not read very far. Varoufakis also recommended a speedy transition to the EEA/EFTA option as a platform from which to negotiate the final settlement. From memory, I think he reckoned that would take at least five years. It is certainly vastly preferable to the “vassal state” implementation period sought by Mrs May, leaving behind 73 per cent of EU law at once rather than remaining subject to every dot and comma plus ECJ jurisdiction and Parliamt no longer recognised as a national parliament ” for the purposes of the treaty” . But such an idea is anathema to all hard liners. They believed what Mr Cameron told them years ago and still do.

  23. E Spalton–Fuck the EU full stop.

    I don’t give a tub of puke for Camoron ,May or any other such trash. I wouldn’t cross the street on the account of either of them save to witness them having the shite beaten out of them. With Osborne included in that as the kind of clown show like old Roman games used to have for a bit of extra entertainment.

    Likewise piss on the EEA AND whatever cockrot May is trying to peddle. We should go now and pay the cunts £0.00

  24. BiND,

    Nobody voted to join in 1975, they voted to remain, that treacherous bastard Edward Heath had already taken us in. I was 16 in 1975 so didn’t get to vote, but I was opposed to it then, during my very brief lefty stage, and remained opposed to it all my life. When the Brexit referendum came, there was only one way I was going to vote.

  25. Jim,

    Just as an anecdotal illustration of your point, though it is not unique. MrsBud left school at 16 as was expected of a working class Yorkshire lass in the 1970s. When we met she was working in a supermarket and our marriage certificate lists her occupation as mill worker. In her 40s, she decided to study Social Work. She graduated with first class honours, the only student to do so out of 69 that year. Having been married to her for well over 20 years by then, this was no great surprise to me, her intelligence was always evident, but had she not chosen to study later in life, she would have been ranked among the old and less educated.

  26. Personnally I like the idea of a second vote.

    As long as we are changing rules about democracy change a few more.

    You know we as a demos make decisions you as a politican carry them out and we don’t hang you from lampposts.

    What is it with the media class? They seem to think they lead rather than are tolerated and relevant rather then despised.

  27. Ducky McDuckface

    “Remainers simply cannot grasp that the vote was fundamentally about liberty. “

    +1, maybe many, possibly lots, for Thomas Fuller.

    To risk pointing out the bleeding obvious; the EU referendum was not the only vote within the UK in recent history that has this as a fundamental driver.

    Liberty is roughly equivalent to the amount of freedom of action/choices or paths available; it’s somewhat curious that EEC/EC/EU membership has coincided with a fundamental shift in the formation of British Governments; ’45-’79 (roughly) alternated between the Labour and Conservative parties, particularly considering the length of each PM’s gentle ministrations. Post ’79, we shift to long run party and PMs. The latter half, ’97 onwards, has long run ministers subsequently becoming PM. How very odd.

  28. @ Ducky
    From 1940 up to 1963, one requirement for a PM was to have fought for his country – Sir Alec got a pass because he had served in the Teritorial Army but was rejected by the Regular Army when he volunteered as he was suffering from (and subsequently immobilised by) spinal TB – which tended to result in PMs not lasting as long because the trenches weren’t good for long-term health. So it’s not just about the EEC/EU.

    Post-79 we get PMs who were too young (or the wrong gender) to fight and a lot more likely to shed blood than the guys who had watched their comrades die or be crippled.

  29. With all this talk about Remainiac and Fake Steve, what I want to know is….where’s the real Steve got to? Haven’t seen him in ages

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