But, but, but….

Meanwhile, the transgender lobby, still on its surreal march to deny reality, is insistent that men who transition to being women can suffer very badly from period pains. Despite not having a uterus. And those who deny their right to suffer period pains, despite the fact they cannot possibly have them, are bigots.

Of course men suffer period pans. Not, admittedly, anything to do with their own lack or presence of a uterus. But those shards of broken crockery are dangerous.

30 thoughts on “But, but, but….”

  1. “Let me bring to your attention what I think deserves a mention,
    Pre Menstrual Tension women say it gives ’em hell,
    Well a bloke I know it got him, his fuckin’ missus shot him,
    So look out blokes this PMT affects us lot as well.”

    Kevin “Bloody” Wilson, Ailments of the Eighties

  2. bigot (noun)

    1. A realist who doesn’t agree with me
    2. Anyone to the right of Trotsky
    3. A general-purpose insult gradually winning ground from ‘racist’
    4. A hypertrophied ot

  3. The left:

    ” We f**king love Science, not like those dumb right-wingers!”

    Also the left:

    ” Men can be women!”

  4. Always thought the use of the accusation “bigot” is akin to the pointed finger. The majority of the fingers are pointing back at the pointer

  5. In humans (and most mammals), sex is determined by the xx or xy chromosome. Your chromosomes are a sufficient and necessary condition of the sex you are. Believing you are a different sex to your chromosomes is a mental illness. And no amount of surgical reconfiguration of your genitals can change your sex. End of.

  6. @Theo

    Not quite. There are some (very rare) people called ‘sexual mosaics’ who are neither one nor t’other. At the university I knew one called ‘Freddie’. He/she was very nice, well balanced, a pleasure to be around, and made no bones about being a genetic freak. He/she presented as a female primarily to spare others’ embarrassment.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosaic_(genetics)

  7. Men also suffer post-natal depression as they’re no longer allowed to see their friends

    Furthermore, they suffer delayed labour pains which is termed night-lego.

  8. Bloke no Longer in Austria

    Theo,

    ah, ah in the 1970s there was a thriller on telly (ITV I think) called the XYY Man. He was a burglar by profession who had the extra chromosone that made him more aggressive and was recruited by the secret service.

    Er… thats all I can remember about it…

  9. @BnLiA
    XYY and XXY are well-documented minority groups. In the 1970s people thought that they were very, very rare so you could write a thriller about this one-in-a-million guy, but I think (someone please correct me because I am too tired to do the research myself) that it’s more like in a thousand. And this South African lass who is winning races has had lots of aggro because she is XXY and that’s *not female enough* for some people.

  10. @ThomasFuller ; you are correct, but they are a tiny minority, far far less than the number of transexuals even before the latest nonsense.

    The Trafia cheat by adding in the estimated numbers for xxx and xyy chromosomes which are much more common (about 1 in 1,000) but what they don’t mention is that people in those groups are definitely female and male.

    (If you are old enough you might recall an ITV show called “The XYY man”)

  11. “In humans (and most mammals), sex is determined by the xx or xy chromosome. Your chromosomes are a sufficient and necessary condition of the sex you are.”

    I thought we’d already covered this?

    Sex determination starts with the SRY gene which is generally found on the Y chromosome (unless it’s mutated/broken) which causes the sex chords to develop, producing seminiferous tubules that lead to the gonad becoming the testes (unless the other genes involved are broken), which releases dihydrotestosterone into the bloodstream of the developing fetus (unless the genes for that are broken), which is converted into a cascade of other signalling hormones by various enzymes (unless the genes for those enzymes are broken), which dozens of other cells around the body detect and respond to by developing differently (unless the genes for the receptor sites, or the cellular systems responding to them are broken) which results in the fetus cells developing according to the pattern associated with one or the other sex.

    Broken switches can be either jammed on, or jammed off.

    It’s a machine with trillions of moving parts, constructed by randomly mixing chemicals in tiny bags of fluid, according to a design produced by randomly cut-n-pasting together two other genomes, and which therefore needs to be extremely fault-tolerant.

    Every organism built always has dozens of faults, some of them in parts of the sex-determination cascade. Things like XXY are only one possible type of error. A lot are minor with little noticeable effect. Some are more major.

    The XX/XY story is the Janet-and-John version for the kiddies. Believing it because you’ve been taught no better is excusable ignorance. Continuing to believe it even after being educated otherwise is mental illness and delusion. It’s sort of like modern technological humans still believing in Creationism, demons, ghosts, and magic.

  12. The XX/XY story is the Janet-and-John version for the kiddies. Believing it because you’ve been taught no better is excusable ignorance. Continuing to believe it even after being educated otherwise is mental illness and delusion. It’s sort of like modern technological humans still believing in Creationism, demons, ghosts, and magic.

    And if you don’t agree with NiV, he’ll be more than happy to beat the living daylights out of you for being a bullying nutter.

    That’s how progressive social justice works.

  13. Continuing to believe it even after being educated otherwise is mental illness and delusion. It’s sort of like modern technological humans still believing in Creationism, demons, ghosts, and magic.

    Last time I checked, believing in any of those four things didn’t lead to men paying large amounts of money to have themselves surgically mutilated and pumped full of drugs so they can claim to be having cramps once a month.

    Yeah, I know, NiV, that’s science

  14. “And if you don’t agree with NiV, he’ll be more than happy to beat the living daylights out of you for being a bullying nutter.”

    Not me! Disagreeing is fine. Threatening to beat the living daylights out of someone simply for quietly wearing a dress on a bus *is* being a bullying nutter. And it’s well known that bullies commonly blame the bullying on the victim – “It’s his/her fault for being different” sort of thinking. Authoritarians are convinced they have the right and duty to impose their own standards on others, by force if necessary, and argue that no force would be necessary if only people would do what they tell them to.

    That’s how progressive social justice works, too. Same psychology, different creed.

  15. The University of Cape Town Anatomy Dept has a beautifully disected pelvis preserved in formaldehyde which is reserved for yearend practical exams. Different coloured pins get stuck into various structures for the student to identify. This person possessed both sets of sex organs. I would love to know the back history.

  16. “And those who deny their right to suffer period pains, despite the fact they cannot possibly have them, are . . . ”

    I’m not oppressing you, Stan. You haven’t got a womb! Where’s the foetus gonna gestate? You gonna keep it in a box?

  17. “Broken switches can be either jammed on, or jammed off.”

    Epigenetics not being the same as genetics, that argues for gene therapies or drug therapies. It doesn’t argue for genital mutilation and indulgence of delusion and mental illness. And it certainly doesn’t justify self-identification of sex or ‘gender’.

    And, however many defects and deviations there may be, the genetic standard – against which the deviations and defects are measured — is and remains xx and xy.

  18. Bloke in Costa Rica

    NiV: are all transgenders sporting odd genetics?

    And as I’ve said repeatedly, sincerity of belief is orthogonal to the truth of that belief. You can believe with all your heart that you are a woman, but if you lack a uterus you cannot suffer period pains. To state otherwise is madness. It’s possible, arguendo, that someone biologically male could suffer cramping, abdominal tenderness etc every four weeks or so. But they still wouldn’t be period pains. Yet to assert this is to be anathematised in most sectors of the Leftosphere viz. academia, Slate/Salon/Huffpo, Labour, the current incarnation of the Democratic party etc.. I think this is why so many people are willing to throw out the nuanced, science-based genetics/endocrinology/evopsych that must be taken on board to have a true understanding of the issue and just say fuck the lot of you. The TG activists are not arguing in good faith, so there is no concomitant requirement to deal with them in good faith. It’s another facet of the absolutist mentality that defines totalitarians, where even the mildest dissent from orthodoxy is regarded as schism and heresy. And there’s more than a whiff of the idea Theodore Dalrymple had that “the purpose of […] propaganda was not to persuade or convince, not to inform, but to humiliate; and therefore, the less it corresponded to reality the better.”

  19. Continuing to believe it even after being educated otherwise is mental illness and delusion. It’s sort of like modern technological humans still believing in Creationism, demons, ghosts, and magic.

    Continuing to believe something after being told differently or “educated” by people you don’t trust isn’t mental illness. It’s a healthy level of skepticism.

  20. “Epigenetics not being the same as genetics”

    I wasn’t talking about epigenetics.

    The androgen receptor protein NR3C4 is a ‘switch’ in the cytoplasm of a cell that is activated by testosterone or dihydrotestosterone. If it detects the hormone it does one thing; if it doesn’t, it does another. But if such a switch is broken, it can either respond as if to testosterone even when testosterone is absent, or it can fail to respond to testosterone even when it is present. It can be jammed on, or jammed off.

    “And, however many defects and deviations there may be, the genetic standard – against which the deviations and defects are measured — is and remains xx and xy.”

    The ‘Janet and John’ story works for 99% of cases, which is why we start with it. Most people are, and always will be, cis-heterosexual. It’s a good approximation. The delusion is when one asserts – contrary to all the evidence – that 99% is 100%, or that XX/XY is the whole/only story.

    “NiV: are all transgenders sporting odd genetics?”

    Nobody knows. We do know that in a study of transgender cases that happen to be twins, when the twins are identical (i.e. they are genetically identical) the other twin was (openly) transgender in 20-30% of cases, when the twins are non-identical it was only 3%. So there’s clearly a strong genetic component to it. But in every case? Most people with gender dysphoria are too scared to admit it – so samples are inevitably limited to those where it was severe enough for them to seek treatment, and who are willing to volunteer for research.

    “And as I’ve said repeatedly, sincerity of belief is orthogonal to the truth of that belief. You can believe with all your heart that you are a woman, but if you lack a uterus you cannot suffer period pains. To state otherwise is madness.”

    That depends what you mean by the term “period pains”. If you define it as “pains caused by menstrual cramping of the uterus”, then no. If you mean “periodic pains caused by the hormonal estrogen cycle”, then why not? Menstrual symptoms in cis-women are not entirely confined to the uterus. If TGs take female hormones, why would the *other* symptoms not occur, too?

    Here’s what one TG said about it:

    I don’t have a uterus so I don’t bleed, but I take hormones and have a hormonal cycle. At the end of the cycle it gives me the usual PMS symptoms including abdominal cramps, bloating, headache, moodiness, and occasionally breast soreness and increased discharge. These symptoms are what I term my Period. It’s not a “Menstrual Period” because I have no uterine lining to shed, it’s just a period of symptoms. The cramping is caused by the abdominal wall and intestinal muscles seizing, which means I also get period shits when they get bad.

    All they’re saying is that some of them get *some* of the symptoms of periods on a monthly cycle, too. Whether you choose to give that a different name is up to you – it is what it is.

    “Continuing to believe something after being told differently or “educated” by people you don’t trust isn’t mental illness. It’s a healthy level of skepticism.”

    That depends on whether the only reason you don’t trust them is that they are telling you things you don’t believe / don’t want to believe. And it also depends on whether your response is to reject it out of hand, or to check it more thoroughly.

    If you reject anything told to you by people who tell you things that contradict your beliefs, they become unfalsifiable and self-reinforcing. That’s how conspiracy theories start/survive – if you present a conspiracy theorist with evidence that they’re wrong, they just assume that it’s disinformation, you or your source are in on the conspiracy, and reject it. The phenomenon is also very prominent in religions, cults, and schizophrenic paranoid delusions – but at a milder level “confirmation bias” is a feature of all human reasoning.

    If your response was simply to not take my word for it, but to do your own investigations and checks to see if the evidence stood up, and point out where the errors were, then I wouldn’t have a problem with that. Indeed, it’s what I would expect any reasonably intelligent person to do.

    Or an alternative approach, if you don’t want to take the time, is to accept that you haven’t checked the evidence, and therefore the proper sceptical conclusion is to say you don’t know, either way. As a sceptic you don’t trust claims you haven’t checked *all* the evidence for, both for and against, and your former beliefs now fall into that category.

    It’s not being ‘sceptical’ unless you’re just as sceptical about your existing beliefs. Selectively (but loudly) applying scepticism only to the opposition is just a way to cover up the lack of scepticism about one’s own side.

  21. The androgen receptor protein NR3C4 is a ‘switch’ in the cytoplasm of a cell that is activated by testosterone or dihydrotestosterone. If it detects the hormone it does one thing; if it doesn’t, it does another. But if such a switch is broken, it can either respond as if to testosterone even when testosterone is absent, or it can fail to respond to testosterone even when it is present. It can be jammed on, or jammed off.

    Then treat this defect and disorder with drug or hormone therapies – not gender reassignment involving surgical configuration of the genitals.

  22. “Then treat this defect and disorder with drug or hormone therapies – not gender reassignment involving surgical configuration of the genitals.”

    We don’t have the medical technology for that, yet!

    The signal in the developing brain of the fetus causes major differences of wiring which, once formed, cannot be reversed. Fixing it after the fact would require extensive brain surgery at a cellular level. We might, in a couple of hundred years or so, be able to do that with nano-technology. Not now.

    If all the different genetic causes can be identified, and if you knew it was a risk, then it might also be possible to genetically engineer the DNA in the mother’s egg to edit out the faults immediately after conception. We don’t have the technology for that, either, but it’s currently being developed and might be possible in the next 50 years. However, the initial priority is going to be treating Cystic Fibrosis, Muscular Dystrophy, Sickle Cell Anaemia, Huntington’s Disease, Phenylketonurea, Tay-Sachs Disease, Gaucher Disease, Adrenoleukodystrophy, Down’s Syndrome, etc.

    You could also use the same technology to make sure all the kids are pale-skinned, blonde-haired, blue-eyed Aryans. Could be controversial…

    Of course, once people have a technology, there’s no telling what they’ll use it for. I did once read a speculative proposal for an intervention that would give *all* males female brains, in order to edit out aggression and war from the human race, without actually eliminating the species. They could get rid of that nasty “toxic masculinity” once and for all!

    Remember the dictum: when considering any proposed instrument of social control, think about what happens when your ideological enemies apply it to *you* before deciding whether it is moral or not.

  23. NiV: transgendered people are never going to be more than Heath Robinson simulacra of the sex they aspire to. Biology trumps aspiration.

  24. Ljh,

    And artificial legs are never going to be more than Heath Robinson simulacra of real ones. But it makes the people born without them happy.

    Why does it matter so much to you, that you think other people should be denied medical treatment?

  25. NiV: because they remain disproportionately as likely to commit suicide post transition as before(Swedish stats) 19x other “oppressed” groups which means they have a problem adjusting to the world rather than the world to them. Surgery and hormone therapy are a form of self harm, they should stick to cross dressing. Primum noli nocere.

  26. “because they remain disproportionately as likely to commit suicide post transition as before(Swedish stats) 19x other “oppressed” groups which means they have a problem adjusting to the world rather than the world to them.”

    It depends who you’re comparing them to. If you compare them to TGs without treatment, getting treatment is a vast improvement. (I’ve linked to the statistics many times before. If you didn’t read them then, you’re not going to read them now.) If you compare them to the background population of non-TGs, then yes, there’s still a long way to go, because despite the surgical/hormonal treatment, a significant portion of society still refuses to accept them, they face extensive lifelong medical issues, and they still face a huge number of obstacles and problems because of what they are.

    Do you think that once a legless person gets artificial legs, all their problems are over?! Do you think that means we shouldn’t give people artificial legs?

    You don’t give any link or reference to the Swedish statistics, but I’m guessing you’re referring to the study by Cecelia Dhejne. You may be interested in some of the interviews she’s given on the subject.

    Williams: Before I contacted you for this interview, were you aware of the way your work was being misrepresented?

    Dhejne: Yes! It’s very frustrating! I’ve even seen professors use my work to support ridiculous claims. I’ve often had to respond myself by commenting on articles, speaking with journalists, and talking about this problem at conferences. […] Of course trans medical and psychological care is efficacious. A 2010 meta-analysis confirmed by studies thereafter show that medical gender confirming interventions reduces gender dysphoria.

    If even the author of the study you’re citing agrees to the description of reporting on it as “misrepresentation”, and confirms that treatment for gender dysphoria *does* work, does that give you any pause for thought? Or does it not make any difference?

    http://transadvocate.com/fact-check-study-shows-transition-makes-trans-people-suicidal_n_15483.htm


    “Surgery and hormone therapy are a form of self harm, they should stick to cross dressing. Primum noli nocere.”

    A lot do. I’m told that people are advised only to go for surgery if it’s the last ditch alternative to suicide. But I’ve also seen the sentiment expressed here that not having surgery shows insufficient ‘commitment’ to the transition, and that if you’ve still got a dick, you don’t get to be treated socially as female. What do you think? Should cross-dressing be sufficient?

    And if (despite what people say about Swedish statistics) it makes people happy, is it anybody else’s business?

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