Things seem to be moving the right way for those champions of a second referendum, who include everyone from Labour peer Lord Adonis and Conservative MP Anna Soubry to the increasingly statesmanlike former Conservative prime minister Sir John Major…

Increasingly statesmanlike means begins to agree with me.

30 thoughts on “Hmmm”

  1. ’…. if our prime minister, cabinet and other elected representatives cannot grasp this Churchillian opportunity for national leadership, the only hope is that they delegate the final say, once again, to the people: by which time one can only hope that the message has got through.’

    And if they don’t vote the way you want? Well, you’ve overturned one referendum, so you might as well overturn this one too.

  2. Bloke in North Dorset

    “Every time she grinds on about the need not to let down the 37% of the electorate who voted Leave, I feel the need for what we moderate drinkers call a “sharpener”. What about not letting down the majority 63%?”

    And you can fuck right off with that argument. Those who didn’t vote get to accept the decision of those who did vote, whether they like it of not.

  3. The euro-weasels like Major calling for a second referendum are utterly cynical. But what would a second referendum solve?

    If the answer were Remain, then leavers would protest, riot, and seek to overturn the result – and, beyond that, the consequences would be unpredictable.

    If the answer were Leave, then the remainiacs would still not accept the result and would continue to try to frustrate Brexit.

    Either way, regular referendums would become part of the British constitution by default. Would the euro-weasels be happy with referendums on capital punishment, abortion, drug legalisation? Because the calls for such would increase.

  4. How will they convince me that leave will be an allowable option next time if it is not allowed now?

  5. “Every time she grinds on about the need not to surrender to the 34% of the electorate who voted Remain, I feel the need for what we moderate drinkers call a “sharpener”. What about not letting down the majority 66%?”


  6. Not going to happen. There simply isn’t enough time.

    But more importantly (and for all of May’s other faults, this is to her credit): she’s a vicar’s daughter and she’s big on things like duty and honour. She promised Brexit and she’ll deliver it. Maybe not much of one, but it will happen on her watch.

    (also, the Conservative Party are toast if this happens – literally, half their voters will switch to UKIP at the next election).

  7. Maritime Barbarian

    Why do Remainers remind me of Jacobites in 1750, plotting in forlorn hope of a miraculous turn in their fortunes?

  8. also, the Conservative Party are toast if this happens

    Another referendum would be about as popular as giving children spider-AIDS, so there’s a 50/50 chance Treeza will go for it.

  9. Maritime Barbarian,

    It’s more serious than that. There’s a serious opposition in parliament and enough treachery within the Conservative Party to do harm. Plus the current establishment are all remain. The Conservative whips were quite right to save up this moment to break some handshake agreements.

    Once it’s official everything will change. Corbyn has to pretend to want to remain for now to prevent a rebellion, but 5 minutes after we’re out, he’ll be going after any strong remainers. His speech the other day has barely been commented on in the press, because they’re too ignorant of European law and how it affects Corbyn’s plans, but it’s a full-on call for a no-deal, leave the customs union and single-market. You can’t have the “british jobs for british people” and government giving preference to british suppliers without it.

  10. Come on, guys, we’d usually pay big money to watch the usual suspects thrash about like this – and they’re doing it for free. All we have to do is keep prodding them. If May can’t engineer a half-decent departure her party will crash and burn at the next election. Corbyn in No.10 is a bonus – a five-year car crash…the endless procession of Aunt Sallies, day-to-day entertainment.

  11. Bernie – deleterious as it would be to my bank account, part of me wants to see a Corbyn government, just for the Wolfie Smith lulz.

    I’m not voting Conservative ever again unless they get rid of May, reverse the Chequers surrender, and do what we told them to do in 2016. So probably never.

    Doubt I’m the only one. And given how unenthusiastic the electorate was about Prime Minister May last time around, when she was still pretending “Brexit means Brexit” while running a full-scale Project Fear about Corbynism… all signs point to the 70’s coming back.

    Corbyn would be a terrible prime minister, but that’s almost irrelevant at this point. He represents (possibly unwittingly) the left half of what’s been going on across Europe and the United States: an overdue realignment of politics into more populist factions.

    He’s been consistently underestimated by the complacent establishment, just as they assumed Trump, Farage and Beppe Grillo were joke figures. Well, who’s laughing now?

    The last populist right-wing leader we had was Thatcher. Naturally, the Conservative Party stabbed her in the back as soon as it was safe to do so. Who can fill her high heels?

  12. We have voted for Brexit, that ship has sailed (or should have). If there was to be a second referendum, the question should be along the lines of: do you want to accept the Brexit sellout? Yes would mean May’s faux Brexit, no would mean no deal Brexit. Full remaining would not be an option.

  13. Steve,

    “Another referendum would be about as popular as giving children spider-AIDS, so there’s a 50/50 chance Treeza will go for it.”

    I really don’t think so. I think she’s hopeless, but she’s a word/bond type. It’s going to be a crappy, watered-down Brexit because she lacks guile, but it will happen.

    And actually, it doesn’t really matter. Because then, we’re out. Out then becomes the norm. In has to do the hard work to rejoin. A lot of people will just give up. Neither of the two main parties will support a referendum. And if it’s all pretty much fine, there won’t be anyone clamouring to rejoin.

  14. BoM4 – I reckon the danger of the Chequers plan is the EU might accept it. And that’s not Brexit, it’s vassaldom. We don’t want that to be the new normal.

    Thank Catholic Jesus the Rees-Moggian amendment on tax went through. It’s a cunningly placed legislative landmine under the Brexit-in-name-only plotters.

    I think we’ll still escape to victory, but it’s going to be a damn close thing.

  15. All I need to be converted to theRemain cause is for someone to explain to me, slowly and clearly, why a couple of Fourth Reich Germans are the best rulers of Britain.

  16. If the proposal is a list of options on how to leave, then meh, go ahead. The New Zealand model: vote 1: do you want to leave? vote 2: ok, we’re leaving, that’s banked, how do you want to leave?

    Plus, there’s no time, so yes! go ahead! let’s have Ref Part 2!

  17. Any shred of credibility Major might once have possessed was dispelled long ago – by the mental image of him aboard Eggwina.

    The EU apparatus itself is a rest home for failed politicians, which may have something to do with his fondness for it.

    In summary, anything he says on the topic can and should be dismissed out of hand.

  18. No revotes

    No extensions of Article 50

    No more bad faith “negotiations” between a treacherous bitch and a gang of resolute tinpot tyrants.

    No more Project Fear bullshit. The FFC Treason May has had leaked that she intends to try to “frighten” us about a WTO exit –she obviously intends to continue crawling to the EU who have no intention of accepting anything short of CU which she can’t deliver. Fuck off. We leave on WTO rules .

    And what a plan–let us all know she is trying to frighten folk with the state’s brazen participation in Project Fear 2. Even Camoron wasn’t that fucking thick.

  19. Must say, this takes today’s prize

    “But more importantly (and for all of May’s other faults, this is to her credit): she’s a vicar’s daughter and she’s big on things like duty and honour.”

    You’re talking about the porn-star, right?

  20. If you follow may’s career it consists of:

    1) Always having the preferred opinion about anything

    2) Always being at the front of the queue when there was credit to be claimed.

    3) Never to be found when there was blame to be handed out.

    She is a woman of principals. The complete set. Whatever principals are needed at the time, she has them.

  21. If the WTO is so bad why is anyone in it? And given we may be relying on WTO to some degree following Brexit what’s the point of pissing them off right now.

  22. Remoaner2017: Referendums are evil. They give equal weight to the ignorant and ill-informed, and lead inevitably to populism.

    Remoaner2018: We need a second referendum!

  23. For all of Major’s career, he could have been replaced by a malfunctioning drinks machine, and the only person who would have noticed would have been Edwin Currie.

  24. Re: John Major. That’s not really fair.

    1) He went to Brussels during the unwarranted British beef and lamb ban and vetoed *absolutely everything* this bring the whole week long meeting to a standstill. Good lad.

    2) he actually resigned as prime minister and put himself up for a vote to sort out an internal fight. Brave.

    Major inherited a tricky party in power situation, did some good stuff with pensions liabilities behind the scenes (all wrecked by Gordon unfortunately) and won an election against the odds. Got to give him some credit.

  25. @firefoxx

    Major was more or less OK until he won the 1992 election.

    After that he went full europhile socialist. Lamont did a reasonable job diluting this. Clarke replaced him and it was then a full on socialist government.

  26. @BniC

    Agree. Major was a politician.

    Blair & Cameron PR snake-oil spivs. Brown a loon. May a sub-managerial paper shuffling bureaucrat.

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