Novichok in Salisbury: The public thought it was safe … so how could this happen four months later?
Err, the public was wrong?
Yes, I know, democracy is supposed to be our paramount virtue. But it has happened before, they being wrong.
Novichok in Salisbury: The public thought it was safe … so how could this happen four months later?
Err, the public was wrong?
Yes, I know, democracy is supposed to be our paramount virtue. But it has happened before, they being wrong.
It seems the woman fell ill first, was taken to hospital, then while the man & a friend were packing clothes to go back to hospital, he too fell ill. Yet the friend wasn’t affected.
Very odd. The man’s ‘a recovering drug addict’ according to the friend.
And on another topic, can anyone else recall a time when the murder of a blue eyed blonde six year old girl wouldn’t be front page news in every newspaper?
One of the themes of ancient Athens was the absurd conclusions its rolling referendum produced. Herodotus noted grimly that when Athens was drawn into war with Persia and Sparta was not, that this showed how much easier it was to fool 30,000 people than to fool one. Satires frequently scoffed at the ignorant bellicosity of the demos.
The British constitutional history of the 19th century is not the triumph of the Chartists and their revolutionary demand for universal suffrage, but the glacially slow expansion of the electorate. The Conservative Party was heroic in its dogged defence of the existing order and its creation of a mass Party when the time came
For this reason British conservatism did not have to ally with populist Fascists not until now
Every fibre of any Conservative should recoil in horror at the idea of flinging away existing and tolerably successful institutions, in favour of some Nationalist tantrum. Many countries have chosen to be poor in the past, this is first for this country, that ironically is now less exceptional than it ever has been.
Most people do not know most things ; knowledge is diffuse. People consult plumbers doctors , experienced business men accountants hairdressers and so on and so on .
I therefore pose the question , why the fuck do we think the fuck witted wankers who have decided to risk the City of London the Wests security and just about every important fucking industry we have , should be listened to when they express an opinion about our economic and constitutional future ?
Best Regards
Newmania
Wasn’t it Churchill who said something along the lines that the most powerful argument against democracy was a 15 minute chat with the average voter?
Facepainting T it–So we just managed to avoid being sold down the river to the scum of the EU to the death of freedom and our ancient nation because the good guys outnumber mental cunts who try to pretend to be each other just because I said they were two separate remainiac scumbags. Or a mental cunt who has managed to write in two different styles so as to fool me–a triumph for remain indeed.
Oh the great mystery–is Tit Facepainter or is Facepainter really Tit. Or are they two separate turds who can both write–just–the same set of words –“old” “fascist” etc– from the same womi dickheads hymnsheet.
These and other questions will be answered when anyone sane gives a shit which is never.
We still won lad/s and you still are leaving the ESpew like it or not.
“Every fibre of any Conservative should recoil in horror at the idea of flinging away existing and tolerably successful institutions,”
Presumably like joining the EEC in the first place, where hundreds of years of successful institutions were thrown away?
Now back to the matter at hand.
Once again the deadly nerve agent that acts akin to a nasty dose of the flu. Supplied by Russia –just to ensure that their World Cup participation is overshadowed by another attempt to this time randomly murder two folk with fuckall apparent connection to well—-anything whatsoever.
“Hotspots” is the key see. Russian assassins go around spilling deadly nerve agents all over the shop for no obvious reason. Can’t be a leaky container for the carrier would then have had massive contact with the “deadly” nerve agent–unless he/she was prowling the home counties in a hazmat suit. So whoever had the stuff–whatever the stuff is–must have been dropping it at random. At least nine times says the paper –and now , by faulty to non-existent logic, obviously a tenth if these folk have fallen ill.
I don’t know what is going on but Putin hiring amateur nerve gassers is unlikely to be it. Even the “MI5/6–CIA did it” theory is now pushing beyond the borders of sanity.
Maybe fewer cops/ intel clowns and a team from the Fortean Times might shine a bit more light on matters.
Or a mental health and inventory check at Portland Down would be a good idea. A nerve agent analogue of Graham Bright is not impossible.
How would you expect the public to get it right when they are fed with a diet of propaganda, lies and speculation? What I know now is that something is going on that I don’t know anything about. I wouldn’t be surprised by Ecks’s last guess being true.
Julia M “And on another topic, can anyone else recall a time when the murder of a blue eyed blonde six year old girl wouldn’t be front page news in every newspaper?”
Well my guess would be when the killer is an individual imported by the dictat of the state and local council trash into an area that was a nearly crime free paradise. “Crime on Bute down by 50%” said the newspaper extract on Twitter. Well you cant do that unless “crime” is miniscule to begin with–say a couple of the half dozen ne’er do well’s in the area get custodial sentences.
Luckily for the powers of deceit the individual is under 18 ( I hope that is true. Because a UK immigration ” under 18 year old” would add insult to injury) and can’t be named.
The fact that very little interest has been shown by the media in the murder of an angelic 6 year girl suggests the truth of it. I could indeed be wrong–but the semi Silence about the awful fate of this little Lamb just shrieks out.
“A nerve agent analogue of Graham Bright is not impossible.” Graham Bright, the former Conservative MP? Or do you mean Graham Frederick Young, the Teacup Poisoner?
I think he means Mr Thallium
Everyone now and then there is a case of contagious mass hysteria. People come down with poisoning en masse. Usually teenage girls and other attention seekers. There have been a few cases involving Third World school girls. It may be that this is a genuine case of nerve agent poisoning. But my money would be on something else.
Personally my favourite is the male equivalent – when men come to believe someone is stealing their penises. A fairly hard thing to miss, so to speak. Has happened in Africa and in Singapore.
It just must be a slow news day.
Andrew K: Yeah –my mistake.
Don’t know where that connection came from. There isn’t even another poisoner with Bright as the last name.
AndrewC
Yes, and he also said:
“Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others.” 🙂
Newmania
If not on the future of a country – and which is far more than just “economic and constitutional” (if most laws affecting that country are increasingly made elsewhere) – or why we went in to the EU the first place, then why on anything else? Why elections? Why European elections? Why does one even need the pretence?
Or … if there going to be some qualification as to who gets to vote (or decide stuff), then who gets to decide what those qualifications for voting are. One presumes just very, very clever people like your good self?
I’m sure you’ve carefully thought it all through, perhaps you’re simply showing a minor lack of transparency in your sales pitch…
“The West’s security” – Utter waste of time, isn’t it, bothering to engage? If that’s the level of analysis.
Julia,
I see he’s been described as a teenager. One of those that looks closer to 30 than 20 no doubt.
Julia, Mr Ecks: nothing about the neighbors. Strange that, the press usually wrings the last trivial detail from them, unless they don’t speak English..?
On the Bute murder, here’s the Telegraph showing the usual journalistic ability with numbers:
“The last murder on Bute was 30 years ago … in 1997”
Isn’t it a little late to be concerned about the security of the Wests?
If it’s a leftover from the original attack, then Novichok is seriously nasty stuff – it hasn’t oxidised in the intervening period.
I wonder if we’ll ever get told what’s really gone on.
A couple of points on the Salisbury affair: firstly the couple who have come down with whatever look suspiciously like the couple seen on the CCTV in Salisbury heading in the direction of the Skripals when they were on the bench. A man and a woman walking arm in arm, the woman was carrying a red bag, a red bag being recovered from the scene later. These people have never been identified.
Secondly, if these two have been exposed to a nerve agent, its got to be new stuff. Any old stuff that Clouseau-like Russian agents may have smeared around Salisbury 4 months ago would be long degraded to nothing – its designed to, there’s no point killing your enemy with nerve gas, then never being able to take over his positions. So were asked to believe that two low lifes (both junkies apparently) have discovered a vial of deadly nerve agent, opened it and managed to a) not kill themselves immediately, but also b) not kill everyone within a several hundred metre radius, or anyone who they can in contact with, including the bloke who was with them thoughout the whole episode. This being a town thats had the entire UK intelligence and police forces crawling all over it for months. Doesn’t say much for them if they’ve failed to discover a live vial of nerve agent out in the open for anyone to find.
I said all along that the fact that this was happening a few miles from Porton Down was too big a coincidence to ignore. And now another case in the same area.
I have two theories – firstly someone from PD has gone nuts and is contaminating the local area for their own amusement. The Skripals being involved was a bizarre coincidence – although it looks weird to say ‘A former Russian spy gets poisoned and its NOT related to his former profession’ but think about it, its weird to us to think that former Russian spy would be living openly in a Wiltshire town, but he was. So if some random was poisoning people Skripal have the same odds as anyone locally of being the victim.
Or secondly, Skripal was not in fact a ‘former’ agent, and was still involved in espionage, and had some deal going on with someone at PD, perhaps to get samples of new weaponry, and its went wrong and he contaminated himself and his daughter. Maybe it was something we weren’t supposed to have at PD, hence the powers that be needing to keep the whole thing quiet.
Either way, the official line stinks to high heaven. Anyone believing that need their head examining.
I subscribe to Occam’s razor here
We know someone attacked the Skripals with Novichok
They must have prepared the attack somewhere, presumably close by. As I understand it the agent is designed to be created by mixing precursor chemicals that by themselves are not dangerous
Unless whatever they prepared it in was the method of delivery presumably there is a container somewhere with residue
It seems unlikely to me that the attackers would risk travelling with that container, so they disposed of it
Unless they are skilled chemists I would assume they simply followed some simple instructions which may or may not have been sufficient to dispose of the residue, or in fact were ineffective anyway
It has been waiting to be discovered by someone since the attack
Or you can try to come up with an outlandish conspiracy theory involving Porton Down, the police, the Home Office, the Foreign Office and the World Cup
“We know someone attacked the Skripals with Novichok”
Proof please. Theresa May saying so doesn’t count.
Personally Occams Razor says to me that when 4 people have been allegedly exposed to one of the most virulent nerve agents known to man, and 2 have survived with no apparent ill effects, and the other two are not dead several days later, whatever they were exposed to was NOT the nerve agent suggested.
Proof please. Theresa May saying so doesn’t count.
Porton Down says so. The OPCW syas so. How much more ‘proof’ do you require? A signed confession from Vlad??
when 4 people have been allegedly exposed to one of the most virulent nerve agents known to man, and 2 have survived with no apparent ill effects, and the other two are not dead several days later, whatever they were exposed to was NOT the nerve agent suggested.
Novichok is undoubtedly very nasty, but far from “the most virulent nerve agent known to man”. It is cleverly made by mixing two relatively inert and innocuous substances. It needs to be ingested to work – small amounts on the skin may not cause any apparent ill effects, as long as you don’t lick or sniff your fingers.
Nerve agents kill by stopping the heart and breathing. Get someone into an intensive care unit quickly enough and machinery can sustain these functions long enough for the body to break down the toxin (obviously, this would be impractical for a large force of infantry, which is what these substances were designed to target).
“no apparent ill effects”? The Skripals were in intensive care for months, and the long term effects are unknown. Sounds like ‘ill effects’ to me, but perhaps they just had a bad cold.
Kindly take your tin-foil hat theories elsewhere (David Icke has a good site) and cease bothering the grown-ups.
Miller–Don’t come it with your “grown up” crap. The idiots here are you and the May sucking-crew.
You are either a stooge or a prime fucking mug. The Skirps were wandering all over before keeling over. The Russians could have had them shot–Jill Dando-style ( since Plod did such a bang up job there) and avoided all this crap. Or better still stabbed–just a bit early for that epidemic tho’. As for nerve agents that don’t kill–if you are an FSB hack with a poison fetish why not use an old-fashioned fucking poison that does work and doesn’t risk half the street? The Borgias managed it centuries ago. A common or garden dose of something deadly would have been ambiguous enough to still leave the possible “Revenge of Putin” in the frame but leave out the “must have been the Russian govt because only they had access to…” horseshit.
“Porton Down says so. The OPCW syas so. How much more ‘proof’ do you require? ”
So a bit of the British State apparatus says so, so it must be true? I seem to recall that that the JIC drew up the Iraq Dossier, did Saddam Hussein really have the ability to launch chemical weapons at 45 minutes notice? Or was it all bollocks?
Do you think if it wasn’t Novichok that PD would come out and make the entire UK Government look like idiots? Not if they fancied drawing their pensions they wouldn’t. And as for what PD sent the OPCW, that could be anything. Indeed we know that PD has Novichok, and the capability to make it, so they could have sent samples they made themselves. The OPCW has been very careful NOT to implicate Russia.
None if this is evidence. Its taking the word of people who have massive vested interests. You may believe what the UK State tells you, I have learnt over the years if a UK politician tells you its raining you better look out the window and check, because they’re all liars, not only on the stump, but at the dispatch box too.
@Mr Ecks, July 5, 2018 at 9:38 am
+1
News: Russia did it; Thailand idiots
Not News: Nurse kills babies in NHS; 6 year old girl murdered; US Ambassador to July 4 speech to UK
.
Happy Fourth of July, You Wonderful Country
.
US Ambassador on Brexit and Independance day
@Jim
Three not killed, but recovered from “deadly nerve agent” – Skipals & PC Plod.
Yes I’d forgotten the elusive DS Bailey. Strange how he seems to have vanished into the ether now isn’t it? I read somewhere the UK Government has bought his house. Is this usual policy for policemen injured in the line of duty?
Dear Ecksy
Much as I enjoy your rants, you’ve really lost it this time. The point of using novichok was to make it obvious that the Russian state was responsible, while maintaining deniability (with a nod and a wink). See also Litvinenko and Polonium-210 – or have you got a tinfoil-hat theory to explain that away? Venusian lizard-people, I’ll bet.
@Jim
OPCW has been very careful NOT to implicate Russia.
The OPCW were specifically prohibited by their own rules from assigning blame to a state. That has now been amended, much to the annoyance of Russia. You need to ask yourself cui bono? Why would the UK state want to set this all up to implicate Russia? And do you seriously imagine that the hundreds of state operatives involved would be able to keep such a plot secret? Dream on!
“Much as I enjoy your rants, you’ve really lost it this time. The point of using novichok was to make it obvious that the Russian state was responsible, while maintaining deniability (with a nod and a wink). See also Litvinenko and Polonium-210 – or have you got a tinfoil-hat theory to explain that away? Venusian lizard-people, I’ll bet.”
Try not to be a bigger fool than you can help.
Using a poison that only you are supposed to have access to gives deniability? Polonium killed one bloke not supposedly endangered half the fucking street. And for what? Juvo scare tactics cos the Russians pay so much attention to foreign news sources?
Never mind lizards pal–your head is so far up the FFC’s lying treacherous arse oxygen depravation is killing your brain.
“And do you seriously imagine that the hundreds of state operatives involved would be able to keep such a plot secret? Dream on!”
They kept Jack Straws lying shite about our involvement in torture under wraps for nigh on 15 years.
Your bullshit-swallowing capacity is a danger to lots of others apart from yourself. Great evil is done off the backs of swallowing fools like you.
Mr Ecks – “Using a poison that only you are supposed to have access to gives deniability?”
No, it lets people know it was you while creating enough uncertainty no one can be sure.
“Polonium killed one bloke not supposedly endangered half the fucking street.”
That is not true actually. The police were able to track the killers because they leaked polonium all over Europe on their way to and from the murder. The Germans were not well pleased.
“And for what? Juvo scare tactics cos the Russians pay so much attention to foreign news sources?”
I think they are doing it to let the Europeans governments know they can do it. And there is not a damn thing May or Merkel or Macron can do to stop them. They are f**king us up the ar$e and daring us to complain. Once we are in the habit of being f**ked up the ar$e we will be more docile. And we are in the habit.
“Never mind lizards pal–your head is so far up the FFC’s lying treacherous arse oxygen depravation is killing your brain.”
Anything you say about Russia applies double to anyone else. Why would a local gangster shoot them? Why would someone like Jason Lynch? To send a message? To whom?
“No, it lets people know it was you while creating enough uncertainty no one can be sure.”
That could have been done with a gun or knife. Use a Makarov.
“The police were able to track the killers because they leaked polonium all over Europe on their way to and from the murder. The Germans were not well pleased.”
How many folk were made ill? As for the Germans they would classify their own farts as air pollution if there weren’t too many to be solvable by bureaucracy.
“I think they are doing it to let the Europeans governments know they can do it. And there is not a damn thing May or Merkel or Macron can do to stop them. They are f**king us up the ar$e and daring us to complain. Once we are in the habit of being f**ked up the ar$e we will be more docile. And we are in the habit.”
Sorry SMFS but that is just daft. If–as PM –I had any credible evidence that was true I’d order half a dozen of their best killed in one day. The FFC/Granny’s Boy are pathetic losers and cowards but how is an obscure Russian being whacked going to intimidate even those sheep? And intimidate them to what end?
“Why would a local gangster shoot them? Why would someone like Jason Lynch? To send a message? To whom?”
Who fucking knows? Why was Jill Dando done away with? But I do recognise the anti-Putin horseshit being promoted by US deep state/Global “elite” shite. Prob because Putes–tho a bad guy for sure– has some regard for Russia and its people. Not enough to stop robbing or exploiting them–but what polipig is not playing that game? But enough regard to not let the globos do the exploiting.
@Jim
Unless the skripals accidently ingested some naturally occurring novichok, someone attacked them
I never said who
The rest of your post is just conspiracy nuttery
Using a poison that only you are supposed to have access to gives deniability?
It seems to be working on you and your tin-foil hatted mates. Put away your “My first dictionary of invective” and try thinking for a bit. It will be painful at first, but you might eventually come to enjoy it.
“The rest of your post is just conspiracy nuttery”
Is it? Why is there a D notice on the UK media from mentioning Pablo Miller, the other Salisbury inhabitant, who just happens to be Skripal’s MI6 handler? And who is best mates with Christopher Steele, he of the Trump dossier fame? If everything is all exactly how we are being told it it is, why is the UK State trying to gag the media from investigating this?
” Put away your “My first dictionary of invective” and try thinking for a bit. It will be painful at first, but you might eventually come to enjoy it.”
It hasn’t worked for you chum.
@jim
If indeed this d notice exists it would be hardly surprising that they would wish to keep an MI6 handler out of the media
The media has not been gagged
Indeed they have been busily speculating
Nothing as wild as your theory though
“The media has not been gagged
Indeed they have been busily speculating”
Where are they speculating? All they are doing is parroting the official line. The only people investigating the multiple inconsistencies between the reported facts and the official line are bloggers, not the MSM.
Incidentally I note Guido has been very quiet on the entire matter. In fact I can’t find one piece on the incident on his site. Looks like he’s had a visit from the suits……
@Jim
+1 on MSM parroting Gov’t.
Russia executing Skripal’s? Why? It’s like the Syria gassings. Counter productive and imho fakenews
Guido went native a few months ago. It was a noticeable change.
“It’s like the Syria gassings. Counter productive and imho fakenews”
In all the recent hoo-hah most will have missed the fact the the official OPCW report into the Syria gassing attack has come down that it was chlorine. So not nerve gas secretly stockpiled by the Assad regime at all, so all that bollocks by the usual suspects about how terrible it was he was using nerve gas on his own people was exactly that. Chlorine is pretty simple to come by and the whole thing was undoubtedly staged by the rebels to paint Assad as the evil gasman, and get the West against him, at a point in the campaign they were losing badly. And all our ‘we always tell the truth’ politicians stepped right into it, and have lied their heads off. And people like Chris Miller above think we should believe everything they say.
Bollocks to that.