Now isn’t this a surprise?

Transgender person accused of rape is remanded into female prison and sexually assaults inmates within days

Will you look at that? The use of “person”

The prison service has apologised after a transgender inmate, charged with raping a woman, sexually assaulted four fellow inmates just days after being remanded into an all female jail.

Convicted paedophile Karen White, who was born Stephen Wood, was undergoing gender reassignment, but had not undergone full surgery, when she was accused of repeatedly raping a woman in 2016.

The 52-year-old, who had been previously been jailed in 2001 for a sex attack on a child, told the authorities she identified as a woman and was remanded into HMP New Hall near Wakefield, West Yorkshire.

But within days of arriving at the women-only prison in September last year, White made a sexual advance to another inmate, while in an aroused state.

A fortnight later, White approached another female inmate and struck up a conversation in which she made comments about oral sex.

Doesn’t everyone realise how damaging it is to not recognise pronouns of choice?

67 thoughts on “Now isn’t this a surprise?”

  1. No such thing as transgender. A criminal bloke says he is a woman and they effectively put him where he can sexually assault real women.

    And note the former Torygraph spewing CM terminology.

    Scum.

  2. I hope the raped inmate gets a shark of a lawyer and sues the prison into the ground for H&S breaches..

    Even if we, the taxpayer, end up paying it.

  3. I’m not logging on to the Trashgraph but can anyone who has read the full article say if this goop’s “sex assaults” were actual..you know…assaults or is he just accused of asking women for a shag. Which depending on how he went about it may not constitute “assault” at all.

    It is early in the AM and I read the “assault” bit and let it play without thinking about it. But if all the idiot did is ask then the caper is shite in both directions.

    A male should not be in a woman’s prison his ludicrous syrup not withstanding. That is wrong. It is also wrong to label his asking for a voluntary shag as a “sexual assault”. If he asked and they said No and that was it he has NOT committed a crime. He should not be in a woman’s nick but that wrong is on the so-called “authorities” who are infected with CM shite. They could have correctly chosen to meet his “I’m a woman” nonsense with a bored “Yeah right mate” as they locked his cell door at night . That they chose to suck Marxian dick is their problem not his.

    A pox on all of them.

  4. @Mr Ecks: I would consult the ‘Guardian’ or the ‘Independent’, but strangely….they don’t seem to be carrying this story. Odd that.

  5. @ Julia M

    As I read the first part of your first comment I was already bemoaning what you then said.

    When any public body fucks up, no-one working for it suffers the consequence. They never lose financially, rarely in terms of career.

    The public body fucks us over and when someone sues, we get fucked over again.

  6. “You don’t want to be a bigot, do you?”

    Some of us were born bigots; some of us achieved bigotry; most of us had bigotry forced upon us.

  7. Even the Telegraph is writing such Alice in Wonderland nonsense as “her penis” now.

    As our host has said before “Western Civilization. Put a fork in it. It’s done.”

  8. Who fancies a bet that his gender reassignment treatment was paid for by us too? Nothing is too much trouble for our caring State when the subject is a degenerate like this.

  9. “I’m not logging on to the Trashgraph but can anyone who has read the full article say if this goop’s “sex assaults” were actual..you know…assaults or is he just accused of asking women for a shag.”

    Prosecutor Charlotte Dangerfield told the court the first assault in September happened when White stood close to another inmate, touched her arm and exposed herself.

    For the second assault she made ‘inappropriate comments about oral sex’ and put the woman’s hand on the ‘defendant’s left breast’ so she could feel her padded bra.

    Miss Dangerfield said the third alleged assault involved White pushing herself indecently against another prisoner, and on the fourth incident she allegedly kissed an inmate on the neck.

    From here.

    However, he/she pleaded guilty to the rapes that resulted in him/her being remanded in custody. It’s not clear whether he/she actually was transgender. According to the article:

    She began identifying as a woman in 2014, but friends told the Sun she was not diagnosed with gender dysphoria – and was a drag artist, rather than transgender.

  10. One would almost think that the “identifying as a woman” bit was merely a flag of convenience. A male rapist who likes a bit of dress up gets remanded to a woman’s prison. What could possibly go wrong?

    Yet, when we point out the folly of all this, we get reams of hyperlinks from Violet Elizabeth NiV to tell us how horrid we all are.

  11. Henry Crun: “Yet, when we point out the folly of all this, we get reams of hyperlinks from Violet Elizabeth NiV to tell us how horrid we all are.”

    I think NiV’s (rather uncharacteristically short) comment is angling to use the ‘no true Scotsman’ defence in this case.

    *gets popcorn*

  12. “One would almost think that the “identifying as a woman” bit was merely a flag of convenience.”

    In this case it possibly was. But we’ve discussed this before – whether they’re TG or not is entirely irrelevant. The critical requirement is to conduct a risk assessment to keep all prisoners safe, whether male, female, or in between.

    Men routinely get raped in prison by other men. Nobody does anything about it. Nobody cares. Tim doesn’t post articles about it three times a week.

    Because nobody actually gives a fuck about people getting raped or sexually assaulted in prison – the only reason this story hit the radar is because a (maybe) TG was involved, and it sounds like a good excuse/justification to complain about TGs.

    Virtually all rapists are cisgender men. Virtually all the people who sexually assault and rape men are themselves cisgender men. Should they therefore be sent to a prison full of their victim group? Which happens more often – men-on-men in male prisons or TGs in women’s prisons? Which is the bigger and more urgent problem to address? Why don’t you?

    I think the answer to that final question pretty obvious. But as you say, we’ve gone through all of this before, and you already know everything I’m going to say.

  13. “I think NiV’s (rather uncharacteristically short) comment is angling to use the ‘no true Scotsman’ defence in this case.”

    I wasn’t defending it. TGs are like everyone else – some people are criminals. I only added the bit about the uncertainty to explain why I was using “he/she” instead of simply “she”.

  14. I only added the bit about the uncertainty to explain why I was using “he/she” instead of simply “she”.

    But why the uncertainty, NiV? The person has now identified as female so they’ve (according to your long explanations) been female all along. Unless there’s a type of sudden onset transgender sysndrome you haven’t detailed to us yet.

  15. “The person has now identified as female so they’ve (according to your long explanations) been female all along.”

    According to my long explanation, whether someone is mentally male or female is objectively determined by brain structure set as it develops in the womb. The easiest way to determine whether this applies is to ask them, and in most circumstances the incentive is far greater to hide it than to falsely claim it. That doesn’t mean people cannot lie about their gender identity. Clearly they do – people have claimed to be cisgender for many years when they’re not.

    Whether somebody likes the taste of grapefruit is an objective fact, that you can most easily find out about by simply asking them. And for most people, it makes no sense to say you like it if you don’t, because then you’ll get given it for breakfast. However, that doesn’t mean that nobody could.

    However, if someone repeatedly and insistently tells you they really don’t like the taste of grapefruit, and you serve them grapefruit for breakfast anyway because you don’t believe it’s physically possible for anyone not to like grapefruit and don’t see that simply claiming not to like it is sufficient to overturn reality this way, their complaint is likely to be considered justified. Yes, it’s possible that they’re lying. But it’s conventional to take people’s word for it on their likes when serving them breakfast.

    Is that explanation long enough?

  16. “But why the uncertainty, NiV? The person has now identified as female so they’ve (according to your long explanations) been female all along.”

    Yes they’ve got one of those female brains in a man’s body, that brains scans can identify, you know the ones that NiV keeps telling us about, the ones that ‘prove’ transgenders aren’t either liars or mentally ill……….which if true I don’t think anyone would have a problem with really – if you think you’re women when you’ve got mens dangly bits, toddle off, get one of these scans that proves what you say is true, then you can be treated as a woman. If your scan comes back as a perfectly standard male brain, then hard luck you’re a bloke, a nutter most likely, or maybe a liar on the make, but you don’t get to be called a women.

    But of course NiV won’t accept that, everyone has to be able to self identify, even if it means rapists get put into female prisons. And I suspect also because such a scanning filter would prove without a doubt that the vast majority of transgenders are not female brains trapped in male bodies, but mentally ill men.

  17. Is that explanation long enough?

    Not long enough to explain your uncertainty. Person identifies as “mentally female”. You say (discounting liars) it’s due to brain structure so they’ve always been “mentally female”.

    So what’s causing your uncertainty? Grapefruit?

  18. ‘Convicted paedophile Karen White, who was born Stephen Wood, was undergoing gender reassignment, but had not undergone full surgery, when she was accused of repeatedly raping a woman in 2016.’

    She? I would say the Telegraph is an accessory to the crime.

  19. “Person identifies as “mentally female”.”

    They say they do.

    “You say (discounting liars) it’s due to brain structure so they’ve always been “mentally female”.”

    If they’re not lying, then yes it would always have been true.

    “So what’s causing your uncertainty? Grapefruit?”

    The reports of people who knew the person and made the distinction.

    I’d normally take their word for it if someone said they didn’t like grapefruit, but if their brother interjects saying “But he used to eat grapefruit all the time back at home”, I might question it. Wouldn’t you?

  20. “Are you unwell?”

    Thank you for expressing your concern! That’s very kind of you!

    Would you believe me if I said I identified as “well”? 🙂

  21. ”The reports of people who knew the person and made the distinction.”

    So if someone identifies as “mentally female” today you would doubt their claim because their sibling remembers having a brother for many years? People down the street remember a boy in shorts?

  22. Do we recognise the term “cisgender” here? I thought the consensus was there are men & there are women & for practical purposes, nowt else. The naming of something being in the remit of the namer, not the whim of the named.
    So, NiV, take your cisgender & stick it where the sun shinest not.

  23. Good to see that the wogs running the prisons in the UK are just about as competent as the wogs running the police forces in the UK. You bastards are consistent, if nothing else.

  24. “So if someone identifies as “mentally female” today you would doubt their claim because their sibling remembers having a brother for many years? People down the street remember a boy in shorts?”

    No, because that’s not evidence regarding the brain, only the body.

    I might do if they’d been given the opportunity to play with dolls and wear dresses without penalty, and turned it down.

  25. “Do we recognise the term “cisgender” here?”

    Where is “here” in this sentence?

    The comments section of this blog? The medical and legal professions? The UK? The English-speaking world?

    “The naming of something being in the remit of the namer, not the whim of the named.”

    Which in this case was me, yes? I named you ‘cisgender’ – so you as the ‘named’ don’t get to object, right? That’s what you’re implying, isn’t it?

    The generally accepted meaning of words is normally negotiated jointly by the whole of society. Check the dictionaries. But you can always take Humpty Dumpty’s approach…

  26. “Where is “here” in this sentence?”

    Obviously, in the comments section of this blog. What happens in the madness of the rest of the world is it’s problem. The medical & legal professions? FFS!

    But here,where sanity prevails, we concluded that whilst “trannie” is a word. Signifying a man who likes to pretend he’s a woman. Sometimes with the aid of surgical intervention. “Transgender” isn’t. Because it’s impossible to migrate from one gender to the other. Therefore “transgender ” is a logical fallacy. A name for something that does not exist. And therefore belongs, along with unicorns, as mythical beasts. We do not discuss stabling requirements & fees for unicorns because the subject never arises.

  27. I cannot comprehend the sheer barking idiocy of committing a person equiped with full, functional M & 2V to a women’s prison, regardless of his/her claims to be a girlie… If he’s in posession of “the bits” he should be imprisoned with all the other owners of similar equipment.

    As to NiV’s concerns over the amount of male/male rape in prison – it is indeed a major problem but not one that is trivially easy to solve – unlike the complete and utter simplicity of not sending blokes to women’s prisons.

  28. “As to NiV’s concerns over the amount of male/male rape in prison – it is indeed a major problem but not one that is trivially easy to solve – unlike the complete and utter simplicity of not sending blokes to women’s prisons.”

    Does this story describe what you would call a simple solution to the problem? Would you want to claim the outcome described wasn’t perfectly predictable? Or that you think it’s more acceptable?

    “Ah, but the conflating of the two serves to muddy the waters.”

    Ah, but I’m objecting to you conflating the two! It’s the same ‘Group A Group B trick’ you always pull when this topic comes up.

  29. I cannot comprehend the sheer barking idiocy of committing a person equiped with full, functional M & 2V to a women’s prison, regardless of his/her claims to be a girlie

    The Zeitgeist is sheer barking idiocy.

  30. “sexually assaults inmates within days”

    I’m can’t read the article, but is there more than ‘struck up a conversation and talked about oral sex’ or ‘made a sexual advance on another inmate while in an aroused state’.

    Because neither of those is actually sexual assault.

  31. You, NiV, raised the topic of male/male prison rape. No one else mentioned it or seemed to see a connection.
    And you, NiV are the one obsessing over groups. No one else is. They see men & women. Male & female. Not groups you can wander from one to the other when the mood takes you.
    If one rejects the concept of transexuality, the whole subject disappears & we get a quiet & uncomplicated life.

  32. “I’m can’t read the article, but is there more than ‘struck up a conversation and talked about oral sex’ or ‘made a sexual advance on another inmate while in an aroused state’.”

    There’s a little more detail in my 11:13 am comment above, but not really enough to tell what the circumstances were.

  33. “You, NiV, raised the topic of male/male prison rape. No one else mentioned it or seemed to see a connection.”

    The issue is rape and sexual assault in prison. Whether either the perpetrator or victim is male, female, or TG is utterly irrelevant. The aim is to prevent sexual assaults in prison, on anybody, by anybody. Don’t muddy the waters by mixing up any other characteristic of those involved, or only picking up on some cases and not others, depending on the identity politics of the other groups they belong to.

    “If one rejects the concept of transexuality, the whole subject disappears & we get a quiet & uncomplicated life.”

    Yes, it does, doesn’t it? Male-on-male rape?: don’t care, not interested. Male-on-TG rape?: don’t care, not interested. Total quiet. The subject disappears.

    Like magic.

  34. NiV–As far as any sense can be made of the article you link to–it seems to be claiming that women who delude themselves that they are men and get sent to a man’s prison–which they presumably wanted–have a very bad time there. Not rocket science nor a deduction that anyone with the brains of a gnat could not have made–long before time–for themselves.

    Here’s a thought then–they should keep fucking quiet about their mental problems until released and then do their thing.

  35. Ps –There is no male on TG rape because there are no TGs.

    Rape exists either ordinary or sodomitic but no TG’s are involved. The mentally ill certainly but no TGs.

    As for sodomitic abuse the indifference exists at the official level. It isn’t left-trendy see but the TG bullshit is .

    For us ordinary folks the problem is that the world abounds in evils –we have not time, resources or life to stop or even fight against them all. I have various commitments including my attempts to save this nation and counter the scummy state and the even scummier EU. I don’t have time or life to run an anti-jailhouse sodomitic abuse campaign. If someone else does I could certainly contribute and possibly help. But then so could you NiV . However you still have only 24/7 the same as the rest of us don’t you. So you whinge like the rest and don’t act.`

  36. “The issue is rape and sexual assault in prison.”

    No it isn’t, that’s the issue you’re trying to divert the conversation onto.

    The issue (see Tim’s post above) is the prison authorities kowtowing to political madrectness and putting male sex offenders into women’s prisons and exposing the female inmates to dangers they wouldn’t otherwise face.

  37. one of those female brains in a man’s body, that brains scans can identify

    Not a real thing; 21st century phrenology.

    Diagnosis of trannies is the doctor’s verdict after speaking to them ie the strength of commitment/derangement demonstrated.

  38. “So it’s just she said, she said?”

    Amusing. 🙂

    I don’t know – there may have been evidence. All I was thinking was that I recall numerous occasions when women stood close to me, touched me on the arm, and leaned forwards to expose their cleavage. Have I been sexually assaulted?

    Context is relevant, and without seeing the evidence all we can do is speculate. I don’t suppose Karen was very popular with the other inmates – whose interpretation of events are we hearing?

    “The issue (see Tim’s post above) is the prison authorities kowtowing to political madrectness and putting male sex offenders into women’s prisons and exposing the female inmates to dangers they wouldn’t otherwise face.”

    That’s how *you* interpret it.

  39. But until you brought it up, no one mentioned male on male rape. We’ll include TG rape in that, since there’s no such thing as a trans-girl. The subject was whether a bloke pretending to be a woman should be put in a women’s prison. Or, to put it another way, should the authorities be as mental as the prisoner? If they weren’t putting men pretending to be women in women’s prisons then they wouldn’t be sexually assaulting real women & we wouldn’t be confronted with the problem. Thing’s would indeed be quieter.

  40. “But until you brought it up, no one mentioned male on male rape.”

    I know. Only you are making the distinction.

  41. “Well, yeah. You don’t get male on male rape in women’s prisons. Yet.”

    Sigh.

    Rape and sexual assault is already a problem in women’s prisons, too.

    And sexism doesn’t stop at the prison walls. Females are still at risk of abuse and rape and unfortunately because they are inmates there is often no legal remedy available for them to seek justice. The word of a prisoner is hardly ever believed. I have sat in on adjudications where to me it was clear that the prison officer is lying but the governor will always rule in their favour. So keeping on the right side of officers is paramount for survival. Many of these women have been abused or have mental health issues and they are vulnerable.

    From here.

    Sexual assault is sexual assault – whoever the perpetrator is, whoever the victim is. As soon as you start caring about some cases and not others, depending on the identity-politics of those involved, you make it clear that it’s not the sexual assault you care about.

    If Tim starts putting up some posts on the sheer insanity of allowing male prison guards into a women’s prison for you all to express similar outrage over, I might reconsider. Otherwise, you make it perfectly clear that it’s not rape you care about, not the welfare of prisoners, not even the welfare of women prisoners. The only thing you’re interested in here is the transgender connection, and your ‘identity politics’ games.

  42. “That’s how *you* interpret it.”

    That’s how anyone who can read and comprehend, and has the social skills to notice sarcasm and humour, will interpret Tim’s post.

    Provided, that is, they aren’t encumbered with a mindset that inclines them think to society should take seriously people who claim to be Napoleon.

  43. “sexually assaults inmates within days”

    But the text has “made a sexual advance to another inmate, while in an aroused state” and “approached another female inmate and struck up a conversation in which she made comments about oral sex.”

    Which of those is the assault?

  44. “If Tim starts putting up some posts on the sheer insanity of allowing male prison guards into a women’s prison for you all to express similar outrage over, I might reconsider.”

    But since you are unable to distinguish between a male prison guard and
    – a convicted paedophile / admitted multiple rapist –
    you most likely would not reconsider.

    “The only thing you’re interested in here is the transgender connection, and your ‘identity politics’ games..”

    It’s the transgender bollocks and the identity politics games of people like you that put this sick bastard amongst captive women, so that’s our main interest here. But not the only interest; another is taking the piss out of you.

  45. I would think that discrimination laws would mean you can’t have all female officers at a woman’s prison and likewise all male officers at a male prison.
    Leaving that aside as mentioned sexual assault can be male to male or female to female anyway so you wouldn’t eliminate it anyway.

  46. Regarding all rape being by cisgender men the article itself refutes that as a non-cisgender committed rape or maybe he/she was being fluid that day.
    Mind you if the definition of rape is still penetrative sex (involving a penis) then it’s not suprising that all the convicted people had a penis is it.

  47. “As soon as you start caring about some cases and not others, depending on the identity-politics of those involved, you make it clear that it’s not the sexual assault you care about.”

    As far as I can see, you’re the one bringing identity politics into the discussion. No one here seems to consider that a bloke who prefers to pretend to be a woman has any other identity than a bloke. That’s not a political identity. That’s a biological identity. And TimW’s post concerned sexual assaults by a bloke stuck by the damn-fool authorities in a women’s prison. Of course we don’t show particularly care about sexual assaults that don’t involve a bloke pretending to be a woman on real women. They weren’t the topic of the post. Maybe we’ll deal with them another day.
    If you wish to wander OT you’re on your own.

  48. When I see 60+ comments I know without clicking that NiV is involved. I wonder if he is really Tim in disguise trying to get his page count up? 🙂

  49. @NiV: September 7, 2018 at 4:26 pm

    Does this story describe what you would call a simple solution to the problem? Would you want to claim the outcome described wasn’t perfectly predictable? Or that you think it’s more acceptable?

    “She” – physically male – was correctly sent to a male prison. However, because of his partially female appearance (ie breasts etc) he should have been properly segregated for his own safety.

    The prison system appears in this case to have been inept or utterly callous (probably both), so the outcome was unfortunately predictable. However, one is tempted to theorise that his situation was probabl;y not much different from that which would have been suffered by a small, “pretty” male. This does not make it acceptable.

  50. “But since you are unable to distinguish between a male prison guard and – a convicted paedophile / admitted multiple rapist – you most likely would not reconsider.”

    If your complaint had been simply that they had put “a convicted paedophile / admitted multiple rapist” in a women’s prison, I’d have had no objection. If you put the argument in those terms, I’d be very happy to reconsider!

    “I would think that discrimination laws would mean you can’t have all female officers at a woman’s prison and likewise all male officers at a male prison.”

    Ah, that feminist anti-discrimination law introduced as a result of politically correct identity politics? Yes. Good point.

    “Leaving that aside as mentioned sexual assault can be male to male or female to female anyway so you wouldn’t eliminate it anyway.”

    Agreed. It would take more than just banning some particular groups of people from the site. You’d need to introduce close supervision and monitoring, and processes for making sure complaints can be safely made and properly investigated. Stuff we should be doing anyway. You could never eliminate it all, but we could do a hell of a lot better job than we do.

    “Regarding all rape being by cisgender men the article itself refutes that”

    That’s why I used the word “virtually”. I did use the word “virtually”, didn’t I? Maybe I forgot?

    “As far as I can see, you’re the one bringing identity politics into the discussion. No one here seems to consider that a bloke who prefers to pretend to be a woman has any other identity than a bloke.”

    That second sentence is pure identity politics. There is a political war going on between two ideological groups over TGs, one whose political position is that they should be treated as women, the other claiming that they’re just pretending. And at the very mention of the word “transgender” you can’t help dragging it in and seeing everything in terms of supporting or opposing your position in the political fight.

    The problem is simply assaults in prison – we do not favour any particular classes of victim or perpetrator. Men are as worthy of protection as women. The authorities are supposed to conduct a risk assessment when deciding where to put someone and with what security measures in place. They need to consider whether prisoners are especially likely to commit particular crimes, and whether prisoners are especially likely to fall victim to particular crimes.

    Simply being male is not enough to class you as a potential sex offender who should not be allowed near women, or that would apply to male prison guards too. Being a convicted sex offender who is on remand accused of multiple rapes probably should. Being transgender means you would be at extra risk of being attacked, or falsely accused. And sex offenders (whether accused or convicted) are notoriously at risk of being assaulted by other prisoners. So such a prisoner should be segregated from other prisoners with more security and monitoring to prevent incidents; should be warned of the risks, both to their prospects in court if they do anything extra, and of the risks of false accusations and assaults, so to steer well clear of the other inmates. The authorities clearly failed to do so, and they apologied for that. (But then, they’re constantly failing anyway – witness all the talk of prison rape – and so this case is only one out of hundreds of cases.)

    My objection here is the Group A Group B trick. Group B is “rapists and sex offenders”. Group A is “anyone with male genitals”. That they are an alleged rapist and a convicted sex offender is relevant. That they’ve got male genitals is not. Most men are perfectly safe and harmless if left around women – more so than some other women.

    The idea that all men are potential rapists that by their nature need to be subjected to extra security measures is not a precedent you want to set! Just imagine what the SJWs could justify doing with a principle like that!

    “When I see 60+ comments I know without clicking that NiV is involved. I wonder if he is really Tim in disguise trying to get his page count up?”

    I’m sure Tim posts on it as frequently as he does for precisely that purpose! But I’d point out it takes two to tango – if you don’t want to discuss it, don’t discuss it. If you do, don’t complain!

  51. “There is a political war going on between two ideological groups over TGs, one whose political position is that they should be treated as women, the other claiming that they’re just pretending.”

    A political war? In what sense? Somewhat asymmetric conflict,isn’t it? There’s a very small number of people who believe your “trans-girls” exist. And a vast majority who think they’re rather odd blokes dressing up as women. If there’s any conflict it’s the latter faction resenting the former ramming (if you’ll excuse the expression) their agenda down the latter’s throats. Apart from this, there’s almost total lack of interest in the subject. It’s a war in the sense the islanders of Canvey. might have declared war on the UK.

  52. “Somewhat asymmetric conflict,isn’t it? There’s a very small number of people who believe your “trans-girls” exist. And a vast majority who think they’re rather odd blokes dressing up as women.”

    Oh, yes? Got any evidence to back that assertion up?

    Like here or Table XII here?

    I guess it’s part of the same identity politics belief system. Not only does your politics demand belief that they’re ‘just pretending’, but it also demands belief that you’re still an overwhelming majority! Belief without evidence demonstrates faith.

    Most people don’t know much about the biology of gender dysphoria, like they don’t know much about any scientific subject. But there’s (non-overwhelming) majority opinion that they’re not mentally ill and it’s not immoral, discrimination and prejudice against TGs is wrong, they should be allowed to get on with it unmolested, and they’re worthy of the same sort of legal protection that other commonly-persecuted minorities get. For most people – end of story. It’s just one of the many hundreds of issues swirling in the public debate, and not one that gets them particularly fired up, either way.

    “Apart from this, there’s almost total lack of interest in the subject.”

    Elsewhere, I agree. But on this site, the topic comes up with a considerably greater frequency than the Canvey island debate, and generates a lot more emotion!

    If you don’t care, why do you argue with me about it? Different people have different opinions, and can express them. So what?

    You seem to be repeatedly ramming the agenda down your own throats – apparently so that you can have something to moan and argue about.

  53. Name changed to protect the innocent

    I personally know a woman who transgendered (is that a verb?) to become a gay man. Sexual preference and gender identification are not strongly linked, it turns out.

    Interesting thing is that at work, recent hires who didn’t know him when back he was a she never even suspected that he had ever been anything but a he. Whereas I, and others who knew him early on can’t help occasionally making the faux pas of referring to him as “her”. And incidentally, as well as irrelevantly, S/he was always and still is a fabulous employee.

    Somehow, stream of consciousness brings to mind a quote from a book by the great Lawrence Block – “The Burglar Who Read Spinoza”, I think – in which Bernie (who is the thief/hero of the whole “Burglar” series) has a bumbling but lovable Lesbian partner-in-crime who owns a dog grooming business. At one point she says to Bernie, “There are two kinds of people I can’t understand: gay men and straight women.”

  54. Hi, Name Changed,

    Thanks! It’s really nice to hear from someone else here who isn’t relentlessly negative about the whole thing!

    (In my experience, most TGs don’t mind the occasional accidental pronoun lapse – it’s only when it’s done deliberately to be nasty that it gets unpleasant. And – just for information – the verb is “transition”. But I’m not criticising!)

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