It’s not really wrong until Julie Bindel supports it, is it?

The latest census on femicide – women killed by men – has shown that during 2017, a staggering 139 women in the UK died as a result of male violence. But nobody joined the dots between these cases except for feminists campaigning against male violence towards women. Despite there being an obvious link between the misogynistic culture under which brutal – and often fatal – male violence occurs, the UK government has never made the connection that these women die because men’s violence towards women and girls is a global pandemic.

The resistance to legally making misogyny a hate crime (currently under review) is partly down to the fact that it is such a huge everyday reality that it seems impossible to enforce. If the police did their job and treated every domestic violence incident as a potential fatality, we might prevent some deaths of vulnerable women and children. But to end the deaths of women relating to domestic violence, there needs to be a robust criminal justice response that intervenes at the earliest stages.

Well, yes, yes and no.

Bayesian probabilities- among those murdered women are more likely to be snuffed by someone they know, among those who might be murdered men more so. Odd that only the one is a scandal leading to the invention of that new campaign about femicide, isn’t it? Almost as if there’s a certain bias on show. We’d never, never, suggest that one gender is only happy when complaining as a result now, would we?

65 thoughts on “It’s not really wrong until Julie Bindel supports it, is it?”

  1. Well, yes, but what Bindel conveniently ignores is that homicide rates for men are not only significantly higher but have increased by 33% in recent years. So, there isn’t a war on women after all.

  2. “But to end the deaths of women relating to domestic violence, there needs to be a robust criminal justice response that intervenes at the earliest stages.”

    Execute repeatedly violent thugs, then.

    I’ll bet that if I took out the rare stranger murder, nearly every one of the rest was a thug known to the police. And the woman probably knew of his criminal behaviour too.

  3. “a staggering 139 women in the UK died as a result of male violence”

    The 2011 census showed there were 26,734,000 adult women in the UK.

    Giving women a staggering 0.00052% chance of being murdered as a result of male violence each year.

    Staggeringly, any woman living to more than 2,700 years of age is almost certainly going to be murdered as a result of male violence.

    I’m staggered.

  4. “a staggering 139 women in the UK died as a result of male violence”

    Curious turn of phrase.

    The insinuation is that it’s domestic violence. But we did have the Westminster Attack, Manchester Arena bombing and London Bridge attack in 2017.

    All male violence. I wonder if the 139 include any killed in these incidents?

  5. A year or two back some woke Labour female MP read out in Parliament the names of all the female murder victims of men that year. In the following weeks all I remember seeing in the news were stories of men or children being murdered by women. No-one seemed to give a shit.

    You are required to care about certain things, and to ignore other certain things. This is enforced by violence through the ruin of your career if you are in public life.

    For some reason the people doing this think they can keep it up. Given their success forcing people to say they believe even the stupidest things, who can say they won’t?

  6. Wot Andrew said.

    Incidentally, women in England and Wales committed a staggering 192,900 abortions in 2017 – equivalent to the killing the entire population of Bolton or Bournemouth.

    Despite there being an obvious link between the feminist culture under which brutal – and almost always fatal – violence against unborn children occurs, the UK government has never made the connection that these babies die because women’s violence towards helpless gestating humans is a global pandemic.

    The resistance to legally making abortion a crime is partly down to the fact that it is such a huge everyday reality that it seems impossible to sate the bloodlust of feminists. If the police did their job and treated every dead infant incident as a potential homicide, we might prevent some deaths of vulnerable children. But to end the deaths of babies relating to female violence, there needs to be a robust criminal justice response that intervenes at the earliest stages.

  7. Interesting that the pictures at the top of the article are a Muslim mother and daughter who were killed by the daughter’s ex-partner. IIRC he was an Afghan man who already had a wife and child(ren) in Afghanistan.

    Browsing through the list of tragic cases on one of her links I was struck by how many were old couples where the man had killed the wife and then committed suicide. Maybe a pact? Then there’s a lot of what appear to be honour killings and killing by what look to be non-British killers.

    I don’t think British men are totally innocent and there’s no doubt some men are capable of some quite brutal stuff, but just lumping these deaths together and blaming misogyny of all men is irresponsible. The problem needs tackling but providing the police with yet another weapon to beat innocent bystanders isn’t the solution and won’t fix the problem.

    As it happens Stephen Pinker’s The Better Angels of Our Nature lies on my desk (a birthday present I haven’t got round to reading) so I had a quick look through. He doesn’t provide data on deaths for England and Wales but he did look at domestic violence (pp497 Fig 7-15):

    For women domestic violence fell from 2600/100,000 women in 1995 to around 900/100,000 women in 2008. Apart from a quirk in the numbers around the year 2000, which could be the way they are reported, its a linear decline. There’s no reason to believe that trend hasn’t continued, although I suspect it will never be allowed to get to zero as definition will be changed.

    The likes of Bindel don’t help their cause with their generalised accusations about all men and calls for sweeping powers that can easily be misinterpreted and abused.

    Perhaps she’s afraid of two of the most effective solutions which appear to be reduced immigration and shaming the Muslim community until they do something about honour killings.

  8. @Andrew C:

    I wonder if the 139 include any killed in these incidents?

    Yes it does:

    Twenty-one of the 30 women killed by strangers were murdered in terrorist attacks, ”

    Does anyone else think it would be interesting to see the ethnic origins of the murderers? Or would that be too much for the Guardian’s sensitive readers?

  9. Or would that be too much for the Guardian’s sensitive readers?

    HOW WHITE SUPREMACY AND MISOGYNY DRIVE PEACEFUL YOUNG MUSLIM MEN TO CRIME – By Alfalfa Hirsch

  10. Has anyone else noticed that the proportion of Guardian articles with comments enabled has been falling for some time?

    It’s almost as if the readership can’t be relied upon to agree with the columnists, and shouldn’t be given the opportunity to voice badthink…

  11. Why, oh why, are women attracted to violent men? It’s probably evolution in play (those male bastards Darwin and Dawkins – note the similarity in their names? I’ll bet they are related).

    Come the end joint of the mammoth* with no more in sight, a woman and her offspring were more likely to feed if they belonged to a homicidal nutcase.

    *Or Moa, if one is a Maori. Haka me a piece offa that Moa breast, then fuck off and run around with that oval ball, dear.

  12. Why, oh why, are women attracted to violent men? It’s probably evolution in play

    Yarp.

    But also… (amateur trick cyclist hat on) maybe there’s something to the Electra complex, albeit not literally.

    If the last 50 years (100 years if we’re going by the capitulation to the Suffragettes) have taught us anything, it’s that more licence doesn’t necessarily equal more happiness for women. Probably the opposite (case in point: Julie Bindel).

    So the Electra complex and the (to my mind similar) idea young women want a bloke like Dad. Why would they do that? Jung’s idea was based on sexual competition with the mother, but it needn’t be as manky as that.

    Maybe it’s because they’re seeking the comfort of being under masculine authority, just like in childhood.

    And it is a comfort, for the same reason schoolkids might superficially rebel but still secretly feel secure in the knowledge that adults who know what they’re doing will step in and rescue them from bad consequences if things get out of hand.

    And you can’t wield authority if you’re a wimp, just doesn’t work.

    NB it’s not just women. There are weaker men out there who want a Mummy replacement. See also: the president of France.

  13. Bloke in North Dorset said:
    “Browsing through the list of tragic cases on one of her links I was struck by how many were old couples where the man had killed the wife and then committed suicide. Maybe a pact? Then there’s a lot of what appear to be honour killings and killing by what look to be non-British killers.”

    Hmm. I looked through and didn’t see many of those.

    Yes, there were a surprising number of middle aged or elderly men who killed their wives, often after a long marriage, but they were usually stabbings, which doesn’t look like a suicide pact.

    Also from a quick look through I counted 35 where the names looked non-British. That’s 27.5%; that’s disproportionately a bit high (what is it – 20% non white British?), but not hugely; to be honest I was expecting more.

    Yes, some of those looked like they might be Pakistani Muslim honour killings, but there were also plenty of names that looked black African or Polish.

    Sadly it does seem that we are quite capable of producing our own violence. Although I agree that it is still a tiny percentage of men, and that blaming all men and giving the police even more powers to abuse is a ridiculous reaction.

    I was amused to see that the woman who died from the Salisbury Novichok attack was included. Since the men who planted the poison didn’t intend her to pick it up (and didn’t even know of her), and the man who gave it to her had no idea it was poisonous, it’s a bit of a stretch to count that as male on female violence.

  14. “Come the end joint of the mammoth* with no more in sight, a woman and her offspring were more likely to feed if they belonged to a homicidal nutcase.”
    True-ish. Though since we learned about weapons (e.g. big rocks), a homicidal nutcase without friends or allies dies in his sleep.
    Maybe we needed weapons before we could start to develop civilisation.

  15. Steve

    Brilliant first comment (and subsequent obviously) – doubt the freaks and weirdos in the Guardian will pick up your linkage, though – it isn’t murder, it’s ‘free choice’

  16. ‘The latest census on femicide – women killed by men’

    Femicide is the murder of a woman. It says nothing of the who done it.

    Femi = woman.

    Cide = murder

    Census? There was a census? Really?

    ‘has shown that during 2017, a staggering 139 women in the UK died as a result of male violence.’

    My English teacher taught me 50 years ago, “Beware people who use adjectives to describe the finite.”

    ‘But nobody joined the dots between these cases except for feminists campaigning against male violence towards women.’

    There are no fvcking dots.

    ‘Despite there being an obvious link between the misogynistic culture under which brutal – and often fatal – male violence occurs’

    There is no ‘misogynistic culture.’ She really is a dingbat.

    ‘The UK government has never made the connection that these women die because men’s violence towards women and girls is a global pandemic.’

    And not one of them local pandemics.

    Cause of death on certificate: ‘Global pandemic.’

    ‘The resistance to legally making misogyny a hate crime (currently under review) is partly down to the fact that it is such a huge everyday reality that it seems impossible to enforce.’

    There is no place in Western Civilization for ‘hate crimes.’ It is a violation of human rights. Everyone has the right to hate anybody they want to.

    ‘If the police did their job and treated every domestic violence incident as a potential fatality, we might prevent some deaths of vulnerable women and children.’

    It’s for the children.

    What would police do differently? Bindel doesn’t understand the criminal justice system.

    ‘But to end the deaths of women relating to domestic violence, there needs to be a robust criminal justice response that intervenes at the earliest stages.’

    On the honeymoon?

    She is an ignorant fool. Domestic partners – wives – don’t speak up at the ‘earliest stages.’ A ‘robust criminal justice response’ would cause it to approach zero.

    Bindel is campaigning for a cause on the pages of the Guardian. Whose editors – if they exist at all – support the cause, so no objective scrutiny occurs, and they publish this nonsense.

  17. I was amused to see that the woman who died from the Salisbury Novichok attack was included. Since the men who planted the poison didn’t intend her to pick it up (and didn’t even know of her), and the man who gave it to her had no idea it was poisonous, it’s a bit of a stretch to count that as male on female violence.

    Leftist grievance is infinitely elastic when it wants to be.

    Census? There was a census? Really?

    Yes, I noticed the use of the word. IT’S OFFICIAL!!!

  18. The tone of all articles by the likes of Bindel is that this something that can be solved by – most likely- giving more money to get causes.

    To that end, every murder of a woman by a man has to be painted as the culmination of a reign of escalating terror by some thug with the patriarchal police standing by laughing and otherwise doing nothing.

    Whether the reality is some old man at his desperate wits end smothering the woman he loves who has become a barely functioning vegetable or the murder suicide of some mentally unstable man or some mad jihadi bastard, it doesn’t matter. It’s “proof” that all men are misogynist power crazed monsters just itching to batter their other half to death.

    And of course, they could. Virtually every single man in a relationship with a woman has the physical wherewithal to kill her. But the vast vast vast majority don’t. Which shows what a load of shyte the line that Bindel spins is

  19. Men killed by women don’t count.
    And the lower number is partly down to sheer incompetence – I saw a newsflash on an elderly man, diagnosed as terminally ill, and his wife was convicted murder after three failed attempts to murder him (apparently *after* the diagnosis) because she wanted to run off with his money and another man and was unwilling to wait until he died of natural causes.

  20. AndrewC said:
    @richard “what is it – 20% non white British?”
    “I thought it was around 10%.”

    From the ONS:
    “from 2001 to 2011, the percentage of the population of England and Wales that was White British decreased from 87.4% to 80.5%”

    So non white-British was almost 20% in 2011; given net immigration since then it must be higher now.

  21. Bindel is also clueless (colour me ‘amazed’) as to the investigatory and prosecutorial facts on the ground: the irony is that, battered wife syndrome actually being a Thing, battered – well, not wives, nowadays is it? ‘partners’ they call themselves, having been shacked-up for four months – in my experience at least fifty per cent of the time the battered female re-shacks-up with the miscreant, then refuses to give evidence.

    Assuming she can be found, and this is the ironic bit, she’ll be summoned to court on pain of arrest to give evidence. I’ve done it many times (on instructions, which themselves flow from an inelastic policy). The female will be weeping and wailing and bemoaning the heartlessness of the State.

    I knew one who threatened to threatened to perjure herself, on being forced into court, ie, tell the jury she was a liar.

    The CPS darling instructing me expressed concern that counsel as experienced as I felt I might not get a case past half-time where my only evidence was the potential perjurer. That is how comprehensively determined they are to prosecute accused wimmin bashers. The idea that the rozzers and the CPS don’t take this stuff seriously is about as incorrect as it is possible to be; they are marinated in it.

    It’s like pretending to be an expert in gastonomy then accusing Paul Bocuse of not bothering to make a decent omelette. It’s just stupid. As stupid as the bone-headed CPS policy to prosecute, prosecute, prosecute.

    But then I suppose the point is that the CPS policy has been driven by fear of the likes of this witchfinder Bindel in the first place, so why wouldn’t she try to fill her boots with a bit more bully power?

  22. “a staggering 139 women in the UK died as a result of male violence.”

    Is . . . is that really staggering Julie? I mean, there were 130 murders in London alone in 2018.

    You can make a case for ‘male violence’ being a problem – males killing women is – let’s just say there are probably more dogs dead at the hands of a cruel man in a given year than women.

  23. “Despite there being an obvious link between the misogynistic culture under which brutal – and often fatal – male violence occurs . . ”

    I’m pretty much pro-open Immigration, but . . .

  24. Steve December 19, 2018 at 11:56 am

    NB it’s not just women. There are weaker men out there who want a Mummy replacement. See also: the president of France.

    Also, HRH Harry

  25. “Staggering” seems to one of les mots du jour.

    It’s staggering how often Murphy uses it to describe things which are, well, remarkably unstaggering

  26. @ Richard
    Names don’t always tell you whether someone is White British or Non-White British – tend to be more obvious for White Non-British. With the largest non-British-born number of residents being Polish, it is less surprising than you think that the over-representation of those who do not sound to be White British is not huge.

  27. So 3/4 roughly of murder victims knew the person who murdered them.
    I wonder what is the proportion of all murderers who were known to the police.
    Do you want to bet higher or lower?

  28. “And, NDReader, the big, homicidal brute also wielded the biggest rock …”
    He’s asleep. He has to sleep sometime. He nicks my food but he doesn’t realise I have finally had enough. He doesn’t need a bigger rock – he needs a friend who will protect him or avenge him.
    First there were brutes. Then there we discovered new uses for rocks, and then I suppose there were tyrants.

  29. “With the largest non-British-born number of residents being Polish”

    Reminds me of a trivia question I heard years ago: “What city has the largest population of Poles?”

    . . . .

    Chicago, Ill., USA. There are more Poles in Chicago than in any city in Poland.

  30. You’d think that women made better killers because they’re not put off by the sight of blood. (h/t Germain Greer)

  31. “Gamecock

    There are more Poles in Chicago than in any city in Poland.”

    There are a lot of people of Polish descent living in Chicago but are they Poles any more?

    Besides, there are 1.7m people in Warsaw and according to Google not many more than 200,000 Poles in either NY or Chicago.

  32. There are close to a million people born in Poland now living in the UK. I’m not sure what proportion of them live in London, but it must be fairly high.

  33. Out here in Midsomer (rural Oxfordshire) there have been three incidents of murder locally in the last several years. One, woman murdered by her Polish maid in London and dumped in a field by the M40, one golf club manager beheaded by an Albanian worker, a Turkish-cypriot family murdered by the husband/son-in-law. All our murderers are foreign. It isn’t much like the TV.

  34. Well of course the biggest brute in the cave has to sleep sometime, but remember, he’s not alone. He has at least one woman – and probably a coterie of followers – that depend on him for their social status (and turn at the trough. It was ever thus. How come that nasty geriatric dwarf Bernie Ecclestone is surrounded by people (including women so beautiful that they can only be transexuals (joke)) pissing themselves to do his bidding? Ditto Berlusconi. The brute relies more on money than musclepower these days.
    The caveman equivalent is the greyback gorilla, or the same role amongst chimps and baboons. The equivalents of chimps and baboons being, unsurprisingly, members of parliament

  35. This is an excellent documentary about the Ngogo chimps.I’ve time stamped on the story of Lofty the biggest of them. (but if you have an hour its worth the whole thing)
    https://youtu.be/R2keXVK8u9c?t=22m46s

    It’s also interesting because a % of the chimps have whites of their eyes which play a role in group machinations.

  36. Indeed, Meester Rob. Import Nigerian pols, get Nigerian politics. Etc. ad infinitum.

    Of course, we have our own homegrown more-than-ordinarily criminal pols. But as always, why bring in more?

    Oh wait, someone is going to tell me she was born here …

  37. There are a lot of people of Polish descent living in Chicago but are they Poles any more?

    Fuck no.

    The whole point of leaving Poland was to not be Poles anymore. Right?

  38. It may have been decades ago since I heard that, so it could have been affected by post war immigration and wartime destruction of Polish cities.

    Or it could have been false.

  39. “I bet it’s an anti-airport green loon”

    Activist judge will probably let them off, then. They’ll be on daytime tv with Piers Morgan (who’ll be pretending to get hot under the collar).

  40. Luddy

    Fiona Onasanya was born in Cambridge….You can get the woman out of Nigeria, but you can’t get Nigeria out of the woman.

  41. @Pcar
    I bet it’s an anti-airport green loon
    My first thoughts too. Easier and less hazardous than chaining yourself to an undercarriage.

    Don’t understand why finding him/them so difficult
    Airports are very noisy radio environments and the frequency hopping nature of WiFi (assuming that’s what’s being used) makes locking on to a signal more difficult.

  42. The report I saw suggested that it was a “commercial” drone.

    I think these things can be pre-programmed for follow a particular path, so no direct control required. So maybe no signal to track?

    If that’s not the case, I agree. There’s a transmitter out there that can be detected.

    Why a police chopper can’t just follow & direct coppers to the culprit is one thing that surprises me.

  43. @Gamecock
    What’s the effective range of a shotgun (firing shot)? 100 feet, 200 feet tops? Not much use against a drone potentially 1,000+ feet in the air.

  44. Chris, they gotta come down sometime.

    Plus, if they were at 1000 feet, they’d be no hazard to aviation, as that occurs at ground level at an airport.

  45. Fly a helicopter up to it, stick your Purdey out the door and blast it.

    In Texas, people would pay money to do it!

    helihunter.com

  46. A drone at 1,000 feet around an airport is very much a hazard. It could be on takeoff/final approach – and even if over the centre of the airport could still threaten an aircraft that had to go around.

    I think if the problem could be sorted out with a shotgun, it would have been done many hours ago.

    PS BBC now reporting the return of the drone – flights suspended once more.

  47. Gatwick/LGW drone(s)

    As it’s a large (ie a few feet, not inches in size) commercial drone, Apache & Hellfire/Gatling should sort it.

    Civilian Drone threat overhyped, faster & larger model aircraft have been flying for decades.

    Hmm, is Gov’t deliberately failing in order to garner support for banning individuals owning a drone? That’s not worked well with guns, drugs etc

    Gov’t wanting to tax/regulate more and restrict freedom If it saves 1 life/child bullsh1t excuse.

    .
    RE: Army allegedly deploys “Drome Dome”

    They bought the budget version from Israel to track, monitor, try to hack and equipped for, but not with Laser drone-killer

    :facepalm

  48. As it’s a large (ie a few feet, not inches in size) commercial drone, Apache & Hellfire/Gatling should sort it.

    Nuke the entire site from orbit–it’s the only way to be sure.

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