Civil war is a strong term to use. I suspect John Lichfield knows that. I presume he uses it wisely as a result. And where France goes, who knows who might follow?
I have a concern. As Lichfield notes, France rioted 50 year’s ago and rising prosperity deflected the anger. Now no one thinks that will happen. All increases in prosperity go to a tiny handful in society. People are oppressed, and they know it.
We need to be clear about the cause of the oppression. The superficial anger is in tax. I am well aware of it. But the cause is inability to make ends meet.
We cannot do without tax.
And we need green taxes.
So the problem has to be tackled another way.
The problem is excess rents.
And maybe excess interest costs.
And a lack of a living wage.
The problem is not tax.
The problem is the failure of a society where enough is made for all to make sure all can partake.
No, really, the problem is not tax. In France. Where tax as a percentage of GDP is 45.3%, compared with the OECD average of 34.3% (which is pretty much where the UK is).
No, tax definitely isn’t the French problem.
Excess interest costs? Rates are still near historic lows. What planet is he living on?
French people are ‘oppressed’ wtf
Do the apex predators of the British looter class really relieve me of “only” 34 per cent of the fruit of my labour? Hm. The spreadsheet says it’s more.
In France, if it moves, they tax it. If it doesn’t move they tax it just in case it does move at some point in the future.
And when the ever federal EU dictates climate change policies that lead to taxes what then, who are the French going to riot against
Re: “green taxes”.
France is one of the lowest carbon-emitting major economies in the world, thanks to their investment in nuclear power.
And yet… the French government is determined to shut down about a third of its atomic generating capacity in favour of alternatives that are orders of magnitude more expensive and polluting. Why? Because “green growth”, innit?
And at the same time, the French establishment has enshrined in law a goal of reducing energy consumption to half of 2012 levels by the middle of this century. A goal that nobody believes is achievable without de-industrialisation (leading to massive unemployment) and aggressive cuts to living standards.
Also at the same time as they’re filling France up with highly fecund low-IQ immigrants who inevitably increase demand for electricity, fuel and public spending.
Immigration and energy policy in the EU are Who?/Whom? plays, inflicted by an increasingly antagonistic and unaccountable ancien regime with malice aforethought towards the middle classes they’re deliberately trying to liquidate.
Like Diane Abbott wearing a lycra bodice, something’s got to give.
“Do the apex predators of the British looter class really relieve me of “only” 34 per cent of the fruit of my labour? Hm. The spreadsheet says it’s more.”
Yes, for you probably it’s more. This isn’t the same thing as an individual tax rate.
Oddly enough a more representative sample of two French colleagues in my office said it was tax, absurd levels of tax. There is sampling bias here as they are in London for a reason, but their opinion is still massively more relevant than a fist-bashing potato in an obscure East Anglian town.
Like Diane Abbott wearing a lycra bodice, something’s got to give.
Nurse! The mind bleach!!
The problem is excess rents.
And maybe excess interest costs.
The current ECB base rate is 0.000%.
An American shocked by the real Paris – Martina Markota
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHuuXL1jI48
Oblong, yeah, I know that.
Doubtless I deserve to have 2 llbs of flesh removed, rather than one. Because reasons.
“The current ECB base rate is 0.000%.”
Not sure how relevant that is. Certainly not to the sort of people are likely to be taking to the streets over high taxes on fuel. It’s the interest rates they personally see, that affect them.
Just checked my last credit card statement Standard rate’s 14.21%, cash rate 25.10%. Can’t be bothered about checking my deposit account interest rate. The amount they’re paying on my not inconsiderable balance will be less than my hourly rate for the time spent doing so.
Government found to be in
Contempt of Parliament
for first time ever.
Why is it that I cannot shake the idea that if asked, Richard Murphy couldn’t accurately identify an instance of “excess rents” within the French economy that was actually material, nor could he supply a meaningful policy position that would “tackle” them.
@Longrider, December 4, 2018 at 6:47 pm
French Politicians Want to Tax Everything, except themselves: MPs vote themselves a E450pm Tax Cut
The French government encouraged and even subsided a switch to diesel cas and, in rural areas, oil heating.
The French government is now telling its citizens they are evil bastards who are murdering Gaia and they’re going to pay for that with increased taxes. To add insult to injury they’re doing it in winter.
And now they’re surprised that people are objecting, not just the usual suspects in Paris, but normal citizens across the country.
It’s almost last like the French government doesn’t know the history of their own country.
French people:
Vote yourselves a 35 hour week.
Earn enough to live on.
Pick one.
Talking of tax and revolutions, my chance to remind people that the original French Revolution was triggered by people unable to afford to pay taxes being taxed and people rich enough to pay tax being exempt from taxes. And what does it look like when the toffs live in la Paris with the Metro a dog-turd away and the polloi live in the countryside two days’ walk from the nearest bus stop, and you are taxed on transport?
‘All increases in prosperity go to a tiny handful in society.’
Wut?
‘People are oppressed, and they know it.’
Wut?
Rise up, workers! Unite!
Re Steve:
“Like Diane Abbott wearing a lycra bodice, something’s got to give.”
I think its another step in the people in the West realising that their leaders are pursuing ruinous agendas. Merkel, May, Obama among many others have resided over utterly inept and in quite a few cases malicious administrations.
The awareness of the whole population replacement agenda is growing quickly as well..
If only his opus “The Joy of tax” had been translated into French, they’d be as happy as pigs in shit demanding more taxes.
The demographic outlook for France is far less attractive than Diane Abbott in a Lycra bodice.
if asked, Richard Murphy couldn’t accurately identify
You could add anything to the end that sentence and be correct.
I don’t believe this is some libertarian revolution demanding a small state with low taxes.
Far more likely to be the usual “give me more of other peoples stuff”.
BiG
They’re already demanding that the tax in large fortunes be re-established to pay for the gap caused by removing the increased fuel taxes.
They’re apparently serious, although the evil M Melenchon was of course one of the earliest to bring it up.
“I don’t believe this is some libertarian revolution demanding a small state with low taxes.”
BiG, I don’t see anyone making that claim. As so often, it is not that you are unable to find the needle in the haystack but you cannot find the haystack.
The local tax rate has risen substantially since Macron abolished the taxe d’habitation and put more power in the hands of Paris. Electricity prices are set to rise as the nuclear fleet is retired. Taxes are increasingly collected by the state withdrawing them from your bank account. Diesel prices have risen 14% this year and an extra 18% was proposed for next year and you fail to see the problem. You sound as complacent as, say, Guy Verhofstadt.
Wasn’t the Revolution kicked off by a rise in the price of bread?
Chris – sorry.
Flubber – I think its another step in the people in the West realising that their leaders are pursuing ruinous agendas.
As we’re seeing nearly three years after we voted to leave the EU (and to a slightly lesser extent, the Yanks are finding out as the establishment tries to stymie everything Trump does) peaceful, democratic change isn’t allowed in the West. You’re supposed to choose between interchangeable gay technocrats who all want you broken, humiliated and replaced with a more biddable Third World servant class.
The elites think that’s the end of the matter, but it ain’t. History (and recent events) tell us the alternative to peaceful democratic change is usually non-peaceful change.
The new fault line in politics is globalists versus populists. Everything else is a sideshow.
BiGs – what Diogenes said, but NB this bit especially:
Electricity prices are set to rise as the nuclear fleet is retired.
But WHY is France phasing out a huge chunk of its (national pride and joy) nuclear power?
NB it’s not due to obsolescence – they’ve deliberately decided to reduce the energy mix from 75% atomic to only 50%.
Given that nuclear power is by far and away the cleanest, safest and cheapest form of mass energy production that doesn’t emit CO2, this is a bizarre decision to take under the guise of “environmentalism”.
Only it’s not about the environment, natch. It’s about epater la paysannerie. This isn’t an environmental or industrial policy, it’s deliberate malice, only slightly less dramatic than Hitler ordering the destruction of German infrastructure.
Well, it’s one of the rules for asking for stuff, isn’t it. Only ask for things that the giver will be happy to give …
The local tax rate has risen substantially since Macron abolished the taxe d’habitation
He did? I’ve just received a bill for mine.
As Donald Trump said when a questioner declared he was from BBC News: ‘Another Beauty’
‘ Civil war is a strong term to use. I suspect John Lichfield knows that. I presume he uses it wisely as a result. And where France goes, who knows who might follow?’
But I thought one of the horrific consequences consequently being bandied about by this eighth-witted, seventeenth rated academic of Brexit was that Britain would no longer yield the benefits of peace in Europe which the EU had brought about. How could this happen in his beloved paymaster?
‘I have a concern. As Lichfield notes, France rioted 50 year’s ago and rising prosperity deflected the anger. Now no one thinks that will happen. All increases in prosperity go to a tiny handful in society. People are oppressed, and they know it.’
But the Gini co-efficient is relatively low in France – 30.1? And are people really ‘oppressed’ in France? Does he even have the vaguest knowledge of France beyond perhaps visiting the ruins at Oradour, for example and fantasising that he could have been there?
‘ We need to be clear about the cause of the oppression. The superficial anger is in tax. I am well aware of it. But the cause is inability to make ends meet.’
So the solution is to tax more? More like the meanderings of someone off his meds
‘ We cannot do without tax.’
He continues to build straw men for a living – I don’t even think the most passionate anti-statist would advocate zero taxation for all
‘ And we need green taxes’
So sayeth the man himself
‘ So the problem has to be tackled another way’
I am guessing tackling excessive state expenditure and an overgrasping bureaucracy aren’t top of his list?
The problem is excess rents
Echoing Dennis – Why is it that I cannot shake the idea that if asked, Richard Murphy couldn’t accurately identify an instance of “excess rents” within the French economy that was actually material, nor could he supply a meaningful policy position that would “tackle” them.
‘And maybe excess interest costs.’
At a time when the interest rate is as follows:
https://tradingeconomics.com/france/interest-rate
‘And a lack of a living wage.’
France’s minimum wage of 9.88 euros per hour is one of Europe’s highest
‘The problem is not tax.’
I think you will find for a lot of the Gilet Jaunes they disagree. It is not the sole problem admittedly but it is a big issue
‘The problem is the failure of a society where enough is made for all to make sure all can partake.’
I am not even sure what to make of this sentence – At least in a previous post he admitted he had no knowledge of Japan, but his knowledge seems to have no beginning. Despite his obvious evil and clear megalomaniac tendencies I think his time in the spotlight is over. He strikes an increasingly forlorn figure, on the edge of a nervous breakdown and in failing health – I think we have long since gone past Peak Murphy and now we see the final, quasi – demented sweepings of a man who in a gentler age would have been sectioned both for his own good as well as that of wider society
Well spotted TN…. To be precise
“Since Jan 2018 this tax is being abolished on a phased basis.
The process will start for around 80% of households, which will be undertaken on a phased basis over three years, with complete abolition for eligible households in 2020.
Indeed, the President has stated that he wants to abolish it for ‘everyone’ by 2022, but the plan for complete abolition has yet to be enacted in law. It remains to be seen if this will apply to second homes.”
It will be interesting to see what happens next
I thought Richie’s answer was to print more money to allow it to be taxed away again? Or something.
tax definitely isn’t the French problem
The French problem was, is, and always will be, the French.
I would think that the current (and worsening) civil situation in France is something that Brexiteers might wish to comment on publicly.
Something along the lines of “Look, France is basically ungovernable and always close to at least limited insurrection. One way of another, they always end up with a government against which highly visible tranches of the population rise up and take to the streets.
And they run Europe, with Angela and friends.
You really want to be subject to a government of that level of incompetence, and unremovable by you?”
Was going to say at least he knows the French are revolting, but then everyone knows that anyway