Nor was it in 1973 or 1975

The ‘will of the people’ on Brexit was not fixed for all time in June 2016
Jonathan Freedland

But that’s different because reasons.

14 thoughts on “Nor was it in 1973 or 1975”

  1. MPs are not self-appointed. They were elected in June 2017 in a general election that itself expressed the “will of the people”, producing a hung parliament deadlocked on the issue of Brexit. True, the two main party manifestos promised to honour the 2016 vote. But all the same, voters chose to return hundreds of pro-remain MPs, from Ken Clarke to David Lammy, who did not pretend their views had changed, regardless of their official party platforms.

    I think voters would, quite reasonably, assume that, if you got elected on a party platform of honouring Brexit, you would carry out the party policy irrespective of your own personal views.

  2. Um no Jonathan. Sure we can have another one but we can’t have another one before implementing the last one. You say there are various flavours. Yes and the Ministers, MPs and Lord get to pick one of those. They can’t decide? Well good job there’s a default then.

  3. Prior to the 2016 Referendum, I think that it was entirely reasonable for an MP, or indeed, anybody, to have a Remain opinion, and to vote on it. After the referendum, it was still acceptable to have a personal view for Remain, but it was dishonourable to attempt to overturn the referendum result, and particularly heinous to apparently sign up to a Leave Manifesto and then work against it. It is not dishonourable (but to my way of thinking stupid) to have a view that after leaving, they would campaign to rejoin.

    In fairness, that is what us Leavers would have done. At first, accept the result, but then campaign for a future in which we left. Most Leavers would think it silly to expect a new referendum immediately after the last. Clearly, the 41 years between 1975 and 2016 was too long a gap, but 2 or 3 years is too short.

    As for myself, I was a Leaver in 2016, and if anything, the machinations of both the Remain camp and the EU have hardened my stance. If my side had lost the Referendum, which I fully expected it to do, then I would have got on with it – like I’ve had to many times when the public voted Labour into office. My forecast of the outcome of the Referendum was wrong, of course, and in hindsight, the result was inevitable. The vote for UKIP in the Euro elections and the General Election told us.

    Frankly, Article 50 should have been triggered by Cameron when the result was known, without further adoo, and we’d be out now.

    And also, there is perfect clarity about what Out means, but none at all, about In. Out means Out, but In means continuing to get screwed over.

  4. And if you’d have responded positively to the referendum and immediately moved to take us OUT then in a decade or so we could have revisited our decision. Instead you’ve done all you can to shaft the Leave vote and water down what leave means. As a consequence opinion has polarised and neither side is prepared to compromise. The mindset is win or lose, and the enmity will run far beyond Brexit.

  5. Personally I think anyone who voted for Ken Clarke thinking he who would take us out the EU is very innocent. I would love to meet them to sell some magic beans.

  6. If Ken Clarke ran under the Conservative Party manifesto, without also stating in his personal election address that he didn’t support it, then he’s an even more egregious cunt than I previously thought. The same goes for all the other “hundreds” of remoaners.

    c.f. John Redwood: “The Conservative Manifesto for the 2017 election made pledges on the matter of the EU, and has never officially been renounced or amended by the Leader. I and many others stood for election on it and supported the Brexit pledges in it. I did not support the elderly care proposals in the same Manifesto as I made clear before the election. The PM subsequently dumped these.”

    (http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2018/10/21/mrs-mays-conservative-manifesto/)

  7. Only 3 of the EU defined regions of the UK voted Remain : Scotland, Northern Ireland and London. On a constituency basis 406 voted leave. When Blair got that in 1997 it was called a landslide. That’s an awful lot of people who’s views are being ignored by their MP. A day of reckoning party of Men in White Suits is called for at the next GE

  8. The debate is no longer about the form of our future relationship with the EU. The debate is now about the way we want to be governed, and on that alone, is a debate the Leavers cannot afford to lose.

  9. Tuesday next’s coup attempt looks like the remain gangs last throw. If that can be seen off I don’t think their will be any new deal from the ESpew and No Deal it will likely be.

    I would prefer Civil War to defeat by such scum as infest the HoC.

  10. It’s over. From around the mid-60s we got a load of technology that increased short range international trade. Faster roads, articulated lorries (some with refrigeration), international telephones, telex and fax machines. We started getting wine and olive oil because of all of that. At the same time, most of the world was poor, communist and not really built for trade.

    You get the container ship, the internet, everyone realising communism doesn’t work and trade goes global. and a lot of that is in very high value low gravity goods like chip designs and medicines. Our exports in food are a tiny fraction of our total exports now. Beef is about £400m, lamb about £300m. We export £4bn of whisky. We export as much gin as beef. And pharma is 100 times bigger.

  11. Tuesday next’s coup attempt looks like the remain gangs last throw.

    Last serious throw, maybe. The truth is that we are now 62 days away from “Leave Day” and while there may be a parliamentary consensus to “do anything but a Hard BRExit”, that is the only law that has been passed, so unless MP’s can gather together some form of majority to pass something else, which looks unlikely at the moment, Hard BRExit it is.

    To be quite honest the Remoaners have screwed themselves. In trying to reverse the decision and then subsequently block a hard BRExit they have undermined the only true advantage they had, a PM and cabinet which overwhelmingly supported Remain and the power of the executive.

    Not that their incompetence dilutes their treasonable action, but if there is a God, I suspect he is a Brexiteer with a sense of callous irony.

    Still hoping for Hard BRExit at the end of March and wishing confusion on my enemies.

  12. I think there’s loads of time yet for our MPs to ruin everything. Their anti no-deal desperation is likely to make them adopt some variation of May’s deal with an appalling amendment of betrayal slapped on. We can only hope that they are too useless to manage that.

  13. Is it definitely in the legislation that we leave if no Deal is agreed before Brexit day? Can someone point us to the right part of the law?

    Just wondering, wouldn’t put it past the remainiacs in power to try and pull a fast one, having snuck something in saying we won’t leave – or worse just try and blag it, try to convince everyone that’s what’s in there, which with the media onside might not be too onerous.

  14. @Excavator Man January 26, 2019 at 11:54 am

    +1 well written and good points

    Agree, Article 50 should have been triggered by Cameron when the result was known, without further ado as Cameron said he would do. His resignation was not an excuse to renege on his commitment, he remained PM until May succeeded him.

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