Seriously absurd whining

Athletics chiefs accused of sexism after refusing to allow men and women to run equal distances

So why aren’t they arguing that they should be running in the same race?

Ah, but that’s different, reasons.

No, there are gender differences here which are important. The only question is, how important?

35 thoughts on “Seriously absurd whining”

  1. IIRC, such data as we have — performance gaps decreasing with distance — suggests that women (or at least those self-selecting as athletes) might compete equally with, or even outdo men (similarly self-selecting), at extreme ultra-marathon distances.

    OTOH, women’s sports are in the process of self-destruction with the trannie fad, so the whole thing will be moot until that passes.

  2. I twould appear that allowing men and women (if one may be permitted to be so utterly “binary” in one’s thinking!) to compete in the same races would essentially sound the deathknell for women’s sports as they would never win anything again.

    Even if, as “The Sage” contends the gap gets closer at extreme distances, it’s not that close. I just had a look at the results on the international ironman (how frightfully sexist!!) site and the first one I looked at the first male beat the first female by 55 minutes in an elapsed time of just under eight hours… He was 5mins quicker in the swim, 33mins quicker on the bike and 15mins quicker for the marathon. It would appear though that the top professional female competitors are just about on a par with the top male amateurs.

    As much as the PC crowd would wish it not to be, males and females have major physical differences with the advantage being held by the males – as you’d expect from a species descended from the successful hunter-gatherers.

  3. Having spent yesterday morning marshalling at cross country races where the distances have just been equalised I can report:
    Most women disliked the longer distance, a lot didn’t mind either way, none were positive. It seems a strange form of feminism that imposed things that women don’t like.
    Marshals were mildly unhappy as it meant standing around in the cold for longer.
    The last lady nearly got run over by the leading men- in part a peculiarity of that course, and in part because the men’s race wasn’t held up until the last lady was home. I should point out that the difference between first and last is greater amongst the ladies.
    The faster ladies prefer a separate race as it gives them a chance to be first across the line. No ladies thought they could run as fast as men.

  4. Barry Hearn opened it up for this years’ darts championship/tour. And why not?If you qualify you’re good enough.

  5. @HB.. I doubt that they’ll do very well though… Not many women can neck 20 pints of lager and still stand, let alone chuck arrers! 🙂

  6. BTW there are many events where men and women run the same course and start together. Men and women separate at the finish line and take the disc denoting their position from a different marshal, thus the ladies results are recorded separately, but the first lady is nowhere near first across the line. The distances are mostly shorter for this kind of race.

  7. This topic reminds me of Serena Williams proclaiming equality of the sexes yet still refuses to play up to 5 sets, the same as men, despite still demanding equal prize money. It appears that equality in sport is still selective amongst some people.

  8. Tim says “seriously absurd whining”.

    Well, yeah. Feminism, innit? But what I want to know is: why do we (for various definitions of ‘we’) take this stuff seriously?

    So you’ll note that the Torygraph article has a tagword of “sexism”. Click on it and you’ll be able to see all the latest “sexism” news, important m̶e̶n̶o̶p̶a̶u̶s̶a̶l̶ ̶m̶i̶d̶e̶r̶i̶n̶g̶ journalism about:

    * Sexy women in adverts are bad
    * Female ‘theologians’ produce feminist Bible (what happened to burning for heretics, btw?)
    * Lady comedians ARE TOO funny and you’d better laugh at their jokes about vaginas and shoes

    All presented completely seriously, despite the Daily Mash type content.

    Jeremy Corbyn (PBUH) had to prevent he didn’t call stupid woman Theresa May a stupid woman even though she’s a stupid woman and scientists from the Institute of Stupid Women can prove it with a five second clip of her dancing like Bez from the Happy Mondays with an electric shock dildo up his arse.

    Has nobody considered that maybe treating all feminine complaints seriously is as daft as indulging your child’s demands for Pop Tarts at every meal?

    Have we collectively forgotten the strategic value of a “that’s nice, dear” or even “shhhh, men are talking”?

    What would Henry Higgins do?

  9. ‘No, there are gender differences here which are important.’

    Le men vs la women?

    No. There are sex differences here. Don’t accept and use CM terminology.

  10. That’s odd. I used to run middle distance amateur club events years ago before my knee decided to stop working properly and I got a bit fatter (the order of these events may have been reversed). I can’t remember seeing different lengths for races.

    As for women being ‘trampled’ by men, lol. I remember a 10k run which involved running a large part of it along a canal towpath – then meet two women jogging side by side chatting with each other. Repeat.

  11. dancing like Bez from the Happy Mondays with an electric shock dildo up his arse
    Steve, you owe me a new keyboard 🙂

  12. @ Baron Jackfield
    That is not necessarily the case – an exceptional woman will beat a mediocre man: I have competed in several races won by a woman (lost count – somewhere well into double figures) and I can remember a local lass winning an Open 10 mile race when I was acting as a go’fer..
    In general most men usually beat most women, but some women do win races.

  13. @ Everybody
    The article is about different lengths of cross-country races for teenagers which is very common. The younger boys run shorter distances than the older boys because they are not considered to be equally strong. The younger girls run shorter distances than older girls or boys of the same age for the same reason.
    This totally ageist and sexist and quite right.
    In the Metropolitan League, which I think is the largest cross-country league, there are series of races at every meeting starting with the youngest running the shortest distance and getting progressively longer working up to the Senior Men. I am sure I can remember the U-17 boys running in the same race as Junior and Senior Women. In the days when I competed those of us at the back used to struggle through mud churned up by five or six earlier races and the hundred or so guys in front.
    Many other leagues, which do not cater for juniors, have one race for both men and women, so my experience supports Rob – I never beat the first woman in x-country or road races but I can’t remember when the fourth woman beat me (before I turned 60) except when I picked up an injury or got lost.
    In a mirror image to the shorter races for youngsters, my county’s x-country championship puts the over-60 men into the Women’s shorter race..

  14. @ Pat
    That sounds like distressing incompetence. When I’ve marshalled, the Men’s race has not waited for the last woman to finish – just until the organiser is quite quite sure that she will finish before the leading men catch up with her. On occasion I’ve watched the organiser jog up to a viewpoint on the course to estimate how far she has got.

  15. Bloke in North Dorset

    In my world if there’s something I don’t like I think my options are:

    Get on the committees, put the hours in and organise change from the inside.

    Leave and give up whatever it is.

    Leave and set up my own organisation.

    I’ve done the first 2.

  16. @Rob
    Championship events and indeed all those conducted under the auspices of athletic associations always had different distances for different sexes, and indeed different age groups. That’s everything from the Nationals down to County leagues.
    Other events which are probably more numerous always had everyone run the same course and starting at the same time, the women’s results being sorted from the men’s at the finish.
    Any member of a running club can enter a championship race, there is no requirement to have reached a certain level – except for the inter-counties where the teams are selected from those competing in county championships. Otherwise I wouldn’t have been able to run at Parliament Hill Fields.
    No-one gets paid for any of this, though doubtless it presents earning opportunities for the real hot shots.

  17. @ Pat
    That should read “*Most* other events, but otherwise a good clear explanation – better than mine.

  18. @John77.
    The problem last Saturday was that the course included a crossover point. The first men reached this before the last lady cleared it. The solution was me running ahead of the last lady, creating a passage for her and forcing the men to keep to one side. There was no possibility of observing the race from the ground.
    If you know of a site for the Essex championships that will allow enough car parking, a crossover free course, and the possibility of ground observation please tell us. Better still organise it.

  19. @Steve – The Telegraph’s wimmins stuff pages seem to be edited by someone who wants to make the case for disenfranchising the ladies. Nothin else explains the acres devoted to the self-obsessed wittering of the ever-swelling Bryony Gordon.

    The paper has some really good female writers; they must really hate the airhead lifestyle columnists.

    @Gamecock There are sex differences here. Don’t accept and use CM terminology.

    Yep, spot on. My first response when anyone wants to discuss ‘gender’ issues is to declare that the term is social sciences bunk and that I have no more interest in talking about it than phlogiston.

  20. Stone me, I can’t be the only one impressed by john77’s athletic prowess. Aged 60+ and still able to beat all bar the first 3 bints – admittedly, john won’t have the same body fat % as the women, will have slimmer hips, more testosterone output to recover from injury better, and less voluptuous breasts.
    But I’m, still impressed

  21. @ Pat
    What happened to Claybury? [The old Orion Harriers course at Chingford doesn’t have a crossover but doesn’t allow ground observation].
    No I don’t organise races: I am quite happy to be a go’fer as there are two guys in my club, each of which is good at organising races and I am not a leader.

  22. @ Bongo
    NO I did *not* say I could beat ladies since I turned 60 – before that I could beat most of them in club races – County Championships have separate races for men and women and I only entered x-country championships to make up the numbers for the team. You have misread my post.
    There are a few 60-year-olds that good but I am not one of them.

  23. Obviously there will be very fit women capable of running faster than fat, unfit and even mediocre men.

    The age thing is interesting too. World Masters’ records get slower through the age groups, as you would expect, but there are still decent times many people half or a third of the age of the athletes would struggle with (3hr 15m Marathon for the 80+ Men) but the times seem to fall off a cliff once you get 85+. (3hr 56 for 85+ and 6hr 46 for 90+)

    Well done, though to Stanislaw Kowalski – holder of the 105+ 100m record. 34.50s

  24. The claim is:

    “Women do not lack endurance and in fact the longer a race is, the smaller the gap between the men’s and the women’s finishing times.”

    I don’t know the results in high-level amateur competition in England – but based on running in general, the claim is simply bollocks. Taking the Rio Olympics as an example, the difference in winning times between men and women was:
    100 m 9%
    200 m 10%
    400 m 15%
    800 m 13%
    1500 m 8%
    5000 m 11%
    10000 m 8%
    marathon 12%
    20 k Walk 12%

  25. Ooops.
    Taking out the 400m, where greater male anaerobic capacity is probably the dominant factor, and we have a range of 10% ± 2% out-performance, and it’s pretty consistent from sprints to major distances.

  26. Claybury is used when the local club organises (Can’t remember which one). Each club organises in turn on its own patch- otherwise either one club would organise every year, or there’d be a struggle rounding up marshals, or both.

  27. @john 77 – January 6, 2019 at 7:24 pm

    @ Baron Jackfield
    That is not necessarily the case – an exceptional woman will beat a mediocre man:

    Actually John, that’s exactly what I said…

    But there’s no way an exceptional woman will beat an exceptional man. One of my drinking buddies has a son and a daughter who are both keen distance runners, his daughter is about 45 minutes faster over a marathon distance than his son – that’s because he’s a storeman at a DIY warehouse and an enthusiatic amateur runner whereas she is an “elite athlete” who competes all over the world… Without ever beating the “elite” blokes.

  28. @ Baron Jackfield
    What you actually said was “It would appear that allowing men and women (if one may be permitted to be so utterly “binary” in one’s thinking!) to compete in the same races would essentially sound the deathknell for women’s sports as they would never win anything again.”
    Maybe by “anything” you meant “any Olympic Gold Medal” but I interpreted “anything” as “anything”.

  29. @john77..

    “Elite sports” were in my mind when I wrote the original posting, so you’re correct.

    My apologies for being so imprecise.. 🙂

  30. IIRC, there was case recently where a female martial art medal contender was seriously injured by her (male-but-identifying -as) opponent.
    It’s a sport, not a gladitorial contest to remove limbs.

  31. @ Baron Jackfield
    I now understand.
    Not being an elite sportsman (except when I’m the only guy available to make up a team – last year I got a team medal when the other members of the team lapped me), it went over my head.

  32. @ Tim the Coder
    That is an ongoing problem: not just martial arts – in my youth girls were not allowed to box but some years later they developed rules for female boxers that excluded the chest as well as the groin. Some 30-odd years ago a young lady came up to me ant told me that she had won the community tennis club’s championship against the “woman” whose nose had been broken playing rugby, at which I rejoiced..

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