Well, yes, that’s rather the way it worksFebruary 25, 2019 Tim WorstallNewspaper Watch30 Comments‘Tens of thousands’ will avoid prison if short jail terms scrapped, report warns previousPerhaps a Professor of Economics should grasp this pointnextTo explain MMT to people 30 thoughts on “Well, yes, that’s rather the way it works” Rob February 25, 2019 at 12:30 pm Ministers have made no secret of their wish to reduce the prison population and drive down reoffending rates, with Justice Secretary David Gauke declaring last week that there is a “very strong case” for abolishing jail terms of six months or less, except for violent and sexual crimes. “Drive down reoffending rates”. I suppose technically as the criminals will just carry on their spate of offences they aren’t ‘reoffending’ any more according to some arcane Home Office definition, so that’s OK then. Meanwhile a nominally Conservative government continues to persue its dreams of its own extinction by removing the last deterrent for repeat offenders and just saying “fuck it, do what you want, we despise the millions who vote for us anyway”. Rob February 25, 2019 at 12:33 pm Let’s reduce hospital waiting lists by simply referring fewer patients to hospital. Problem solved. Rob February 25, 2019 at 12:40 pm The myth the Left peddles is that the State jails people for first time offences like apple scrumping, and jail turns them into hardened repeat offenders. It’s bollocks. People going to jail for these offences have a long string of convictions behind them already before the courts finally put them away. They are ALREADY repeat offenders. They are recidivists. Jail keeps them from making the Public’s life a misery, at least for a short time. A fucking Tory minister (no, don’t laugh) doesn’t have the basic nous to realise he is a mug who has fallen for the Leftist manure peddled to him by the Home Office. He lacks even the basic antennae to be a politician. Or does he just loathe ordinary people and wants to make their lives as miserable as possible? Ljh February 25, 2019 at 1:04 pm Birching and the stocks might be adequate punishment and deterrent to reoffenders. Cheap too. Dongguan John February 25, 2019 at 1:13 pm I think it’s almost impossible to go to prison these days unless you’ve done something really awful. I have an old friend whose heart is in the right place but can’t seem to stay out of trouble. Few years ago he went down to cornwall and built a cannabis farm. He and another old friend rented some lockup in a commercial park and installed all the cannabis growing equipment. Every few months they would harvest and he’d drive it up to our midlands home town to flog it. Between them they were making about 100 grand a year. Eventually even the Cornish police caught on to them and my friend was caught because he had rented the place in his name (idiot!). He had previous convictions (never jail time) and got two years suspended. JuliaM February 25, 2019 at 1:34 pm Rob: “Let’s reduce hospital waiting lists by simply referring fewer patients to hospital. Problem solved.” Yikes! Don’t give them IDEAS!!! Gamecock February 25, 2019 at 1:38 pm Without consequences for crime, crime escalates. Not just the rate, but the seriousness of the offenses. It is common in big American cities for judges to give light sentences for crimes, especially for young ethnics. Doing them a favor, they think. The criminal’s crimes escalate til they commit murder, and the courts then take action. So we get 19 year old murderers. Homicide by firearms discharge, the government’s official term for murder with a gun, occurs about 11,000 times a year in the U.S. 6000 by black males (6.5% of the population). 5000 by everyone else (93.5% of the population) Without the black male numbers, the U.S. rate is quite low. The root of Chicago’s murder rate is Lefty judges, helping the black kids out. bloke in spain February 25, 2019 at 1:56 pm Ah, Mr Gamecock, but they do mostly shoot each other. So the community’s doing the best it can to reduce the murder rate. Ian Bennett February 25, 2019 at 2:44 pm abolishing jail terms of six months or less, except for violent and sexual crimes Why are there jail terms of six months or less for violent and sexual crimes? Gamecock February 25, 2019 at 2:55 pm bis, Planned Parenthood gets that prize. They have killed millions of black babies. John B February 25, 2019 at 4:07 pm If they are serious about reducing prison population, then they should decriminalise drugs and regulate them like alcohol and tobacco. Gamecock February 25, 2019 at 4:54 pm Or don’t regulate them at all. Edward Lud February 25, 2019 at 6:30 pm “…no secret of their wish to reduce the prison population and drive down reoffending rates…”. See what they did there? By ‘they’, I mean Whitehall and its faithful (dishonest or stupid) lapdogs in the press. It’s the sly insertion of the ‘and’: reducing the prison population will drive down reoffending rates. I mean, don’t get me wrong, prison is rubbish in all sorts of ways. But a miscreant locked-up is a miscreant limited to miscreancy only against other miscreants (and unfortunate prison officers). There is no ‘and’. You could lock-up, at a conservative guess, 30,000 men in perpetuity and see the crime rate fall through the floor*. And yes, decriminalise drugs. * Assumes we don’t continue to import more footpads and cut-throats. No laughing at the back! Pcar February 25, 2019 at 7:50 pm @Gamecock February 25, 2019 at 1:38 pm Homicide by firearms discharge, the government’s official term for murder with a gun, occurs about 11,000 times a year in the U.S. 6000 by black males (6.5% of the population). 5000 by everyone else (93.5% of the population) NiV will be along soon to explain how it’s not the RoPs/Blacks who are a problem Steve February 25, 2019 at 8:46 pm Rob – Meanwhile a nominally Conservative government continues to persue its dreams of its own extinction by removing the last deterrent for repeat offenders and just saying “fuck it, do what you want, we despise the millions who vote for us anyway”. What if they IDENTIFY as law-abiding, bigot? Martin February 25, 2019 at 9:28 pm A female has a stalker. So far he’s been in prison 11 times in 5 years – longest sentenced was 8 months. The only times she is safe is when he is behind bars. He’s done attempted murder, he’s damaged vehicles, he’s damaged rented houses. Twice she has been in a battered women’s shelter (really not a place you want to be with 3 kids including a 15 year old boy) when council could not move her. He ignores court orders, he ignores anything he doesn’t like. And the previous 10 times he has been to prison over the same problem haven’t changed his behaviour. Prison isn’t working. Prior to being imprisoned for the problems the courts didn’t stop him. What is the solution? Non prison? Edward Lud February 25, 2019 at 9:57 pm That’s a good point, Steve. I remember, about 15 years ago, when two Nigerian or Ghanaian women stood accused at the Bailey of torturing a child, where their defence was that the child was a witch, and both women each day turned up to court with fine 21st Century coiffes – full-on purple and pink hair, the very latest in modern, expensive head-gearing. That nexus of expensive, comfortable tech alongside pre-modernism. And I thought: there’ll come a point where one of these people argues, apparently sincerely, that they simply did not know what the law was and that they, for reasons, could not be expected to know what our law was. But the more recent version is simpler: they just identify as witch-finders (as part of their vibrant cultural tradition) Rob February 25, 2019 at 10:17 pm Prison isn’t working. Prior to being imprisoned for the problems the courts didn’t stop him. What is the solution? Non prison? Her father / brothers and / or other related males take care of the problem. Gamecock February 25, 2019 at 11:32 pm “What is the solution?” Concealed weapons permit, and a Sig P938. Edward Lud February 25, 2019 at 11:33 pm Or, Martin, a longer sentence. Mebbe, dunno… Ten years, rather than eight months? Edward Lud February 25, 2019 at 11:36 pm I mean, he can’t do anything to her when he’s in the Big House. Can he? So what do you mean, when you say prison doesn’t work? Steve February 26, 2019 at 12:24 am Edward – Makes as much sense as tolerating Sharia I spose. Can’t be long till the Conservative Party includes muti in its list of British Values. Maybe that’s why Theresa May was doing her funky little dance in Safaffrica? I was disappointed they didn’t have a nice big Prime Ministerial pot bubbling fragrantly over a fire, but to be fair she’d probably taste stringy. Edward Lud February 26, 2019 at 12:54 am She’d need lardons, Steve. Lots of lardons. And shallots. And even then she’d be gopping. Like the range stew they used to give us on TA weekends in Surrey. Now I feel besmirched, spotted, soiled. theProle February 26, 2019 at 1:35 am Maybe we should multiply prison sentences so that they get progressively longer. Say take all the offences committed over the last 5 years of time spent free (the clock stops while in prison) and multiply the sentence this time round by all those other offences. So say 1st offence of petty burglary, 2 month suspended. 2nd offence, 2 month * 2 month = 4 months. 3rd offence 2 months * 2months * 2 months = 8 months 4th offence – which is worse, so 6 months * 2 months * 2 months * 2 months = 4 years. 5th offence – 2 months * 4 years = 8 years… It means that we would get persistent offenders in the slammer for the long term (and thus not out thieving) but without having to increase the initial level of sentencing for fairly minor crimes. I fear that “solving” crime by locking up what one of my local Bobby’s calls his “frequent fliers” won’t go down well with out current soft left rulers, so I won’t hold my breath for such a system to come into place. John Duckett February 26, 2019 at 2:40 am There used to be what was called “Preventive Detention” where persistent offenders were given long sentences in addition to the sentence for the crime(s) they had just committed.Just to keep them out of mischief. MC February 26, 2019 at 5:30 am @Martin In the case you mention, prison has not been given enough of a chance. Attempted murder carries a maximum sentence of life. Also, regardless of whether the cunt reforms or not, 10 years in the nick for him is 10 years of peace and safety for the woman concerned. Itellyounothing February 26, 2019 at 7:51 am Transport to the an island in the north Atlantic, along with enough food, equipment and instructions to farm there. Bloke in North Dorset February 26, 2019 at 9:25 am Martin, As others have pointed out, the protecting the public part of the prison sentence prison does work, it appears the deterrence part doesn’t in his case which is why sentences should increase with each offence. For some reason those that know better put maximum prison terms on offences and then arrange for people to be released early as the default. To this end I like theProle’s idea, it is clear and easy enough for most thugs to understand and gets round the 3 strikes and your out problem of people going to jail for life for stealing a pizza. Jason Lynch February 26, 2019 at 11:16 am Martin, But imprisoning this poor helpless victim of society is not the solution. His misdeeds are the result of confusion. Tory cuts. Austerity. Post-traumatic stress from growing up in the shadow of Thatcher. Toxic masculinity. None of it is their fault and prison will only make it worse. Harassing them or locking them up would be the sign of a fascist police state. Until this stalker succeeds in murdering his target, and probably her children: at which point it will all be the fault of the police and the judiciary, for failing to act sternly against this femicidal oppressor who so clearly and obviously should have been locked up for the sake of all womyn years ago. Martin February 26, 2019 at 12:24 pm In the stalkers case the only time she isn’t scared of him is when he is in prison. Within days of release he’s back tracking her down again. Rob – her disabled dad couldn’t take the guy on. Her older brother could but the cost is a prison sentence. Jason – yes, probably right there. Leave a Reply Cancel replyYour email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *Comment Name * Email * Website Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment.