So, imagine. We all vote again. In a three way deal. No deal, May’s deal, Remain.

A survey by ComRes found that 44 per cent of the public now believe the UK should leave without a deal if Brussels refuses to make any further concessions – a six point rise from January. Less than a third (30 per cent) disagreed.

No deal gains the plurality.

How much respect for the voice of the people would there be then?

42 thoughts on “What fun”

  1. Why would remain be on the ballot? We’ve voted to leave, the only legitimate question would be around the nature of leaving.

    Quite simply, Deal or No Deal.

  2. You and I know that if it happened they would gerrymander the franchise, finesse the questions, and bribe the electorate with outrageous public spending commitments.

  3. This is designed to get a win for remain by splitting the leave vote. Pure cynical opportunism by bad losers with an utter contempt for the democratic process.

  4. Surely a three way ballot on a referendum like this is just asking for trouble?
    Unless one option gets over 50%, you’re always going to be able to point out that more people didn’t want that option.

    And what are the chances of one option getting over 50%?

    I suppose you could argue that the Deal and No Deal leaving option together show the leave vote.

    But what if remain gets, say 40% and the other two 30%?
    Leave gets majority of votes, but technically remain won. What happens then?
    I can bet the politicos would be arguing that democracy has had its say and we should remain…
    Best 2 out of 3 and have another referendum – A threeferendum?

    Another referendum should be avoided at all costs imho

  5. @Docbud

    If that’s the choice in another referendum, then we have to get Noel Edmunds to host one of the results shows.
    We could have the results for each constituency brought in in one of the boxes, then revealed.

    Would be more entertaining than the usual political results show

  6. Cherry_Drakon,

    The only fair way to run it would be to have voters select first and second options. If your first choice comes third, your vote is transferred to your second choice and added to the votes of those who put your second choice first. For example, Remain 40%, No Deal 35%, Deal 25%. If 20% of Deal voters put No Deal as their second choice, the final result would be No Deal 55%, Remain 45%.

  7. Do me a favour Tim!!!

    This whole fiasco has ‘establishment stitchup’ scrawled all over it. The establishment gets what the establishment wants and the establishment wants to remain. To hell with what the little people want, or even voted for.

    I reckon we’ll see leaving postponed, a turgid campaign to encourage apathy and then a soft-leave deal v’s remain referendum on the eve / morning of the next recession.

    The sooner Ecksie gets himself to parliament with an axe, black hood and list of names the better!

  8. The Conservative Party will kill Brexit if it can.

    So the voters will kill the Conservative Party at the next election.

  9. “How much respect for the voice of the people would there be then?”

    No chance.
    Why is it assumed that a three way vote would split the leave vote rather than the remain vote?

  10. The State would fix it. They aren’t going to make that mistake again. No second referendum. After the past two years, if anyone thinks the government would hold a fair and free election they need a serious word with themselves.

  11. “So the voters will kill the Conservative Party at the next election.”
    So who would they vote for?
    Corbyn’s Trots?
    The Independent Group of Fanatical Remainers?
    Libdim?
    The Green Environmentals?
    UKIP gone ALT+R?
    A Brexit Party currently doesn’t exist and would have the full weight of all the above, the MSM, the political establishment, the Civil Service & most particularly the majority of the judiciary gunning for it?

  12. BIS–Enough will vote–even if only one time protest vote–for UKIP or Farage to make a huge difference.The balance of power if not full power. Both Labour and Tory treason has shit their holes full.

  13. “Why is it assumed that a three way vote would split the leave vote rather than the remain vote?”

    Exactly. I suspect that the Leave vote is harder core Leave than the Remain vote is hard core Remain. A lot of the usual suspects(media/pols/big business) are hard core Remain, so it seems like they are more numerous than they really are. I think a lot of 2016 Remain voters would be attracted by the BRINO of the WA, while not so many of the Leave vote would like it, and would prefer No Deal. In a three way choice I would expect No Deal to come out top.

  14. BiS – All and none of the above, I reckon.

    It doesn’t actually take that big a percentage of Tory voters to stay home to give us a Corbyn government, and we’ve already seen how well Fear Of A Jez Planet didn’t work in the 2017 election – when the Conservatives were still pretending to deliver Brexit.

    Lack of a credible, winnable alternative (for now) doesn’t mean voters won’t punish Treason May and the other Conservative nonentities. People who care about Brexit – which is a significant %age of the Tory vote – won’t turn up at the polls thinking “Hmm, well the Conservative Party cancelled British democracy, but on the other hand Jeremy Corbyn met some Hezbollah guys in 1987 so I’d best vote for Treeza!”

  15. You’re remarkably naive today, Mr Ecks. Expect a scandal to arise surrounding UKIP. Possibly involving arrests. Much the same for a Faragist Brexit Party. Those who rule* have decided there will not be a Brexit & they intend to ensure there will not be a Brexit.
    *Nothing to do with democracy. Democracy’s an inconvenience, not a requirement.

  16. BiS – Expect a scandal to arise surrounding UKIP.

    Something like how Jeremy Corbyn was branded an “existential threat to Jewish life” (!) ?

    Yarp, the system’s broken, but the mistake the establishment pols are making is assuming that the Fuck You vote isn’t real.

  17. Why is it assumed that a three way vote would split the leave vote rather than the remain vote?

    Because there are two leave options and one remain option.

  18. The Meissen Bison

    If there’s any kind of coherent independent Brexit grouping – faragist or whatever – that I can vote for, that’s what I’ll do. A new populist party coming out of nowhere could get a lot of support.

    Failing that, I shall vote Labour for the first time. Not particularly because I want a little taste of Venezuela but the election after that will see the emergence of something I would actually support rather than vote for while holding my nose.

    So BiS’s “who are they going to vote for?” isn’t problematic for me.

  19. Steve,

    The Conservatives are falling apart over it. I know a number of volunteers who have told the local party to get fucked because the MP has said he will not accept No Deal.

    A lot of people have to understand that Brexit is one of the few positives for most Conservative members. They want someone more like JRM or Raab leading the party. Someone who is a lot more about shrinking the state than May is. If you take Brexit away, they wonder what the fuck the point is in knocking on doors. What do they get from it? The surrender over ridiculous “tampon poverty”? Thanks a fucking bunch, Hammond, you absolute bellend.

    I’m of the view that under FPTP there’s two parties, and the Conservatives are currently blocking the place for a proper party of the right. Voting for them won’t get that party into politics. Voting for that party will.

  20. BoM4 – A lot of people have to understand that Brexit is one of the few positives for most Conservative members.

    As a sometimes Conservative voter, that’s my sense too.

    This isn’t some relatively peripheral issue, like fox hunting or whatever, that the party leadership (ha ha!) can afford to betray in the knowledge they still have enough sellable merchandise elsewhere on the platform.

    What else do the Tories have in their kit bag? Mandatory lessons about gay sex for children? Transgender rights? Banning cars? Making sure the CBI has access to unlimited cheap foreign labour?

    They’ve strategically screwed themselves. Their brand is more toxic than a nursery endorsed by Gary Glitter.

  21. Well said Steve.

    Scandals BiS–who –apart from a tiny rump of arch nitwits would believe a bloody word of it?

    TMB–Why reward Jizz’s treason? Vote UKIP/Farage–even if only one time. You will be pleasantly surprised. ZaNu has no surprises save how bad things will get and how soon they can be gone. Which– if you put McNasty in– may be decades.

  22. I’m sure I recall reading about a week ago they wanted to offer another referendum without no deal leave as an option which is entirely consistent with their actions.

    I voted leave but my position is ambiguous, I would have been disappointed but consider remain a reasonable position for someone to take yet to find May constantly lying and the Conservatives supporting her means I think the only reasonable response is to treat them as the enemy.

    I don’t know if no deal is the right outcome but I am hoping the EU doesn’t grant an extension of A50 forcing it and we’ll have May to thank for it because of her ineptitude but anything seems preferable to her deal, even remain.

  23. @DocBud
    Cherry_Drakon is my stripper name 😀

    In general:
    I think we’re going to end up crashing out.

    With my limited knowledge of the workings of politics and the EU, as I understand it:
    1. The EU only allows extension for technical reasons – legislation pending, awaiting results of referendum or similar
    2. We’ve legally committed to leaving on 29 Mar
    3. Refusing the instruction of the first referendum is political suicide and a way to get civil disturbance. I think a lot of people in the street understand, even if they voted remain, ignoring the result shows that the politicians can do whatever they want, no matter what the people want.

  24. @Steve March 10, 2019 at 2:09 pm

    It doesn’t actually take that big a percentage of Tory voters to stay home to give us a Corbyn government

    +1 and as we witnessed in 1997 when Blair creature won

  25. @Chris Miller March 10, 2019 at 4:28 pm

    Today’s Sunday Times has an article by an anonymous ‘senior civil servant’:
    I can reveal Whitehall’s secret Brexit plan: stop it dead

    Copy & paste article & com please

  26. The Meissen Bison

    Ecks – if there is a candidate to vote for, I will. UKIP didn’t put one up last time. If the same holds next time round then Corbyn gets my vote.

    One term of Corbyn is all it will take to get rid of Labour for ever and if we get as far as voting for one term of Corbyn, it means that the Tories will have been annihilated.

    Good

  27. @SimonB March 10, 2019 at 6:06 pm

    +1 Lab & Lib-dim want: May’s Deal (Remain) vs Remain referendum

    Utter sh1ts

  28. Sunday Telegraph Front Page Headline today:

    “Police Back Brexit No Deal”

    Sub asks: why has “Army Back Brexit No Deal” never appeared?

  29. “One term of Corbyn is all it will take to get rid of Labour for ever and if we get as far as voting for one term of Corbyn, it means that the Tories will have been annihilated.”

    You are right TMB –but Jizz is only the front cunt for a much nastier pack of cunts with McNasty as figurehead. As with all deep socialist evil getting the bastards back out again is the trick. Their every action once in is designed to ensure you can’t.

    Re –UKIP Batten is MUCH more focused on winning elections. Candidates will be there–just vote even if only the one time as a punishment vote– that won’t destroy the UK. Or Farage’s Party. Just not ZaNu. Please.

  30. Re the SCS and Brexit sabotage–as I’ve said SO MANY times before the bastards have to go–en masse,sans compo and pensions.

    Now perhaps you might believe me.

  31. @Pcar – hope this is allowed 🙂

    The four core values of the civil service are honesty, integrity, impartiality and objectivity. Before joining the organisation I had believed, naively, that these values would be upheld unconditionally. I very quickly came to learn that, in relation to Brexit, nothing could be further from the truth. Unfortunately, I must remain anonymous for fear of the backlash I would receive at my place of work. However, I can reveal that I am a senior policy professional within the civil service and work closely with numerous governmental departments.

    There are a number of extremely dangerous myths regarding civil servants that I must dispel because of the impact they are having on the Brexit process.

    Myth 1: the civil service is independent. The civil service was founded on the pillars of political neutrality. Civil servants are meant to ensure that their own political persuasions do not affect their work. Crucially, they should accept those from all political leanings and points of view.

    It has become clear to me that the vast majority of civil servants support “remain”. From my own observations I would estimate this number to be well over 90%. This is worrying in itself and far from representative of the 52% of the population who voted for Brexit.

    Most horrifying, however, is the sheer disdain and utter contempt that my colleagues display towards people who voted to leave. I have lost count of the number of insulting and derogatory terms that are used in my own department and elsewhere to refer to the 17.4m people who voted for Brexit: “racist”, “stupid”, “uneducated”. Anti-Brexit jokes and snide remarks are dropped casually into everyday office conversations.

    I live in fear that my colleagues will discover through a slip of my tongue that I am a Brexiteer. Were this to happen, I genuinely believe that most would refuse to talk to me again and that I might even lose my job.

    This entire culture creates a thickening cloud of negativity towards Brexit that shades all areas of the civil service. I have witnessed first-hand civil servants doing everything within their power, subtly and under the surface, to frustrate Brexit and talk it down at every opportunity. This can only seriously undermine our efforts to be in the strongest position possible on leaving the EU.

    Myth 2: civil servants are experts in their field. One would like to think the individuals making decisions that affect our entire nation would have some level of skill or experience. If only that were true. For example, I know of one standalone “expert” policy team leading our preparations for Brexit. You can imagine my disbelief when I discovered none of its members had worked on anything remotely related to the EU before.

    In fact I have discovered over time that the vast majority of “experts” within the civil service have no expertise whatsoever. In many cases the “portfolio” that you take on when you join the service is dictated by the one held by your predecessor. As a result you have new civil servants inheriting politically sensitive and highly important work without the faintest clue about what they are dealing with.

    Civil servants who are seriously underperforming will usually have a new job title and position created for them somewhere else in the organisation instead of being sacked or performance-managed — they become someone else’s problem then. Given the influence that civil servants are exerting over the Brexit process, this is truly concerning.

    Myth 3: the civil service does not engage in scaremongering. I had hoped that civil servants, even in times of crisis, would be able to remain calm and level-headed in pursuit of ensuring the best outcomes for our country. And yet it is not uncommon for me to receive emails from colleagues promoting Brexit scare stories that are nothing more than lies and speculation.

    Recently, things have become so panicked that various “Brexit contingency” plans have been set up throughout the organisation. This is to prepare for the “national public transport breakdown”, “surge in criminality” and “widespread public unrest” that is going to follow March 29.

    These plans also involve collecting the personal details of certain civil servants to put in place a 24-hour on-call rota for the “emergency” that is looming. This scaremongering, created and whipped up by civil servants, is having a marked impact on the confidence and wellbeing of ordinary citizens. For example, one acquaintance of mine is so terrified by the speculative threats put out by the civil service that they have already started to stockpile large quantities of their medication. This needs to stop.

    Myth 4: ministers are in charge. When I was outside the civil service looking in, I always believed that civil servants were there simply to advise their ministers, who, as elected representatives of the people, would make the ultimate decision. However, I have come to realise that ministers are often mere puppets with civil servants pulling ferociously at their strings. The level of bureaucracy is unimaginable. In my experience parliamentary briefings go through — at a minimum — five stages of internal clearance, with crucial information being amended or deleted at every stage on the whim of that individual civil servant.

    The power and competence of our ministers is, I’m afraid, a facade. They are nothing more than a megaphone for the views of biased civil servants who lurk behind them in the shadows.

    I am a long-standing believer in and supporter of the “leave” campaign. Not so long ago we celebrated the 800th anniversary of Magna Carta. The UK has been built on the pillars of democracy and we have the greatest legal system in the world. It is absolutely shameful that while we remain in the EU our parliament is no longer sovereign, our Supreme Court is no longer supreme and our nation is no longer self-governing.

    To go against the will of the people expressed in the 2016 referendum would be the ultimate act of betrayal.

    We are good enough and strong enough to stand on our own two feet. I am, therefore, calling firmly on the UK government to allow us to take back control by leaving the EU on World Trade Organisation terms. Anything other than this — be it an extension of article 50, a second referendum or Theresa May’s pitiful deal — and we will have been betrayed. And if the people are betrayed, I may have no choice but to resign from the civil service altogether.

    Honesty, integrity, impartiality and objectivity: we will soon discover, once and for all, whether our politicians embody these values.

    Unelected bureaucrats are huge fans of government by unelected bureaucrats. Colour me unsurprised.

    The new, heavily politicised civil service is, of course, largely a legacy of the Blair years. Another gift the country has to thank him for.

  32. We all know that if they get a referendum there will be 3 questions; remain, hang around, or stay?

  33. Chris Miller,

    I don’t know why anyone assumes the civil service are ever impartial. They’re human beings with mortgages,car loans and personal agendas. The last thing most civil servants want is a minarchist state with simple rules because that means they’d be out of a job.

  34. I was chatting to a civil servant (DWP) acquaintance at a soirée over the weekend. She voted leave. However she ‘gets’ the fact we had a supposedly once-in-a-lifetime referendum. She is now so pissed off with the attitude of the politicos, as well as he way the EU is conducting itself that she would now vote leave if it comes to another referendum (it had better not). There’s a bit of hope – although I suspect she is in the minority in the Civil Service though. Although you do wonder given that letter published in the Sunday Times…

    What was a bit concerning for me during this last week though, concerned another friend I saw who originally firmly voted leave, but said she would vote stay as she now thinks it was all a big mistake. She believes most people have changed their view because of the ongoing debacle. No!

    I told her about the Leavers of Britain groups that have got going on the UK – she’s going to come to the next one out our way. She said she felt like she was the only person who thought Brexit was right and was still thinking so – but didn’t like to say so! Just shows you what those bastards in the media are doing, insidiously. I also told her to keep the faith – matters are being engineered to make it feel like it is a big mistake.

    The big mistake was letting those cunts Blair and Brown in, to then expand, gerrymander and engineer the Civil Service into a lefty (Remainer) vote-machine.

  35. This is wrong .The only Com Res Poll did not set this question in a three way choice it just asked the question
    The ‘against’ and ‘don`t know’ were more than the “for’ combined but there was no remain option
    Had there been it would have won the”plurality” by a bloody mile in that No Deal is by far the east popular option and remain the most popular option according to countless polls you can see on tn You Gov site and elsewhere

    I can`t see you UKIP wank sheet report but unless there is soem other secret Coms Res Poll this Post is just wrong wrongedy wrong

  36. @ Mr Ecks
    One term of Corbyn and the Tories will be annihilated for ever – in the Gulags.
    Militant is already weeding out any moderate Labour Councillors and MPs

  37. @ Chris
    Thanks!
    The British Civil Servicd is assumed to be neutral because the Victorians protected it from being sacked on political grounds and it was selected on the basis of a non-political examination.
    Alastair Campbell spotted that if you could side-step the examination then members could be selected on poltical grounds and successor governments were stuck with them (unlike the USA where even post office workers are appointed on political grounds).

  38. No deal crash out catastrophism is a self fulfilling prophesy

    Even if it wasn’t going to happen the civil service, government, media, lobbyists and people like Soros are going to make damn sure that it does

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