Brexit – No, I Don’t Know Either

I am seeing, around here, considerable hatred of the Tory Party. And I could see that this grass roots might be leading to some rethink up the tree. There’s nothing a politician fears so much as being turfed out of office.

But, you know, is this going to happen soon enough? Really terrible councils would do it. But are they going to bodge something before that?

I simple don’t know. You?

67 thoughts on “Brexit – No, I Don’t Know Either”

  1. I don’t exactly see your thesis? Are you suggesting something akin to reversing the poll tax, like say, switching gov policy to no deal? I mean yes that would be significant. Its a risk too, to avoid electoral suicide they might consider it… but since no one knows whether it does or not and there’s no leader to take that through then fudgey fudgey with EU it’ll probably remain.

  2. In the past I have been reluctant to use Council elections to make political statements. I think that overall our Conservative local council does a reasonable job. This time, it being the first opportunity to express a view on the shambles in Westminster, things will be a little different.

  3. A deal with ZaNu to force an even worse version of her WA through IS possible. But since Jizz just lost 12% of his vote in a largely (nonGE apathy) Labour heartland seat with the worst Tory/Govt/PM EVER –he really should have a pause to try to think at least.

  4. The mst important section of the electorate in that by-election is the people who did not turn out at all. Levels of apathy/rebellion like that make everything unpredictable at GE level.

  5. As Macron shows –doing nothing is not an option because the Globo-elite are going to keep kicking us. Impoverish the little people so we can’t fight back is the name of the game. Jizza’s cockrot has profited from that–but socialism can’t improve on socialism-under-a-disguise. People are waking up. But not fast enough.

  6. As Max Planck said, “Science advances one funeral at a time”. As with Science, so with Liberty. Just needs to be the right funerals.

  7. If Tory voters are so pissed off with the current bunch of New Labour impersonators they stop caring about the horrors of a Jezza government then the Tories could be terminally damaged quite easily. That’s certainly where I am. I’ll happily tough out a term or 2 of Jezza in order to secure reform or destruction of the Tory party.

    Other than the Referendum – motivated by a fear of UKIP that might not have troubled Labour so much – what have the Cameron/May Tories done that Labour would not have? What have they not done that Labour would have done?

  8. Can’t help but notice Theo’s conspicuous absence in these parts. Could it be that even he’s given up on them? Things must be serious.

  9. Let’s be honest, if you were in London and some swivel-eyed mohammedan with suspicious wires poking from his back-pack stopped you and asked directions to the Houses of Parliament, you’d give him the taxi fare and send him on his way with a pat on the back.

  10. Talk now is of Jizz being made Deputy PM. If Theo can’t stomach that surely even he could vote UKIP one time in a GE to get Brexit. If UKIP does that it will do and they can be voted out and will go. Jizz fucking won’t –once he is in that’s it. 10 million more vigrants to try and ensure he can’t be voted out and if even that doesn’t work he simply won’t go.

  11. @Rhoda
    37% turnout is pretty normal for a predictable by-election between local worthies. And it was pissing down most of the day. (In S Wales? Surely not!)

  12. There is certainly something bubbling, but where can the pro-leave electorate go?

    – The Lib Dems are ultra-remain (for all the good its doing them). Same for the TIG.

    – UKIP has gone weird. It supports Brexit sure but is not mainstream enough to carry significant popular support.

    – The Brexit Party doesn’t really exist yet. And if you vote for them in a GE, it largely strengthens Labour.

    – Labour, apart from being a Marxist liability, appears to be remain after all that ambiguity, probably to keep the parliamentary party intact under Corbyn; the grassroots (outside of Islington) can go hang.

    – Probably the most sensible thing tactically would be to stay in or join the Conservative party, which is the only sensible party with leave as its stated policy and some actual level of real leave support in its parliamentary party. Try to move the policy from the inside like Momentum did with Labour. Votes for the Brexit party etc. to be used as external pressure in non-GE elections where FPTP is less of an obstacle to representation perhaps.

    Thoughts welcome 🙂

  13. Last night at a ‘Leavers of Britain’ meet in my home town (where the lovely founder of the group – Lucy – also attended and gave us a pep-talk), I got chatting to a Conservative candidate for the upcoming locals.

    She said that she has definitely noticed people being much more aggressive / rude than before while out and about. I also told her that I had (almost) always voted Conservative but I never would again.

    She seemed totally unphased by that (which surprised me a bit) other than saying that local elections ought to be viewed differently than national stuff. Which I know, and agree with, but even so, it’s gonna be really difficult to envision putting a tick into a Conservative box again, at any level. Also pointed out that (by her reckoning) 80% of the city councillors are socialists and they need a bit of something strong in the chamber to stand up to them.

    I guess at a local level it comes down to who the alternatives are and if they would get the job done, combined with trying to destroy the Tory Party (which I am happy to see – and watch what rises from the ashes).

    Decisions, decisions…

  14. @Oblong “…the Conservative party, which is the only sensible party with leave as its stated policy…”

    Words are words, promises are promises. The only thing that matters are actions.

    The Tories have totally ballsed this up. Not just this, but anything remotely resembling what I think of as a Conservative set of policies. Fuck ’em. I will be switching to a party that better represents what I want – whether it exists now, or in the future (and, it will). Might need to hold my nose a bit with some unsavoury policies or personnel but… that’s what I intend to do.

  15. MC

    ‘I’ll happily tough out a term or 2 of Jezza in order to secure reform or destruction of the Tory party.’

    My concern is once these clowns are in (And I think Ecks has said it) you’ll never get them out. The Kims have been in power for more than 7 decades. I have already heard plans to lower the voting age to 5 and introduce a maximum voting age to embed them firmly in power. redrawing constituency boundaries and implementing STV would also mean permanent left-wing hegemony. Rather than ‘drain the swamp’ they’re likely to expand it considerably. However, sadly there seems to be no alternative – as Steve has said the Corbinites look to have the energy and commitment as well as the belief. May has actually lifted the veil and revealed that the Conservative MPs have literally nothing in common with the grassroots. It’s a fitting end for them, and sadly for the UK.

  16. The Pedant-General

    “But since Jizz just lost 12% of his vote in a largely (nonGE apathy) Labour heartland seat with the worst Tory/Govt/PM EVER –he really should have a pause to try to think at least.”

    That assumes that he cares a jot for what the electorate actually thinks. This will become abundantly clear if he ever get anywhere near power.

  17. I’ll be spoiling my ballot paper thus: You are all traitorous, useless wankspangles and wouldn’t piss on any of you if you were on fire. As for Labour, you are Jew-hating cocktrumpets.

  18. I am never voting Conservative ever again. May has scuppered Btrexit. Her so called deal/withdrawal treaty is a remain treaty.

  19. It’s already too late. The people should have risen against the government. Y’all are too decadent to do it. You are all too comfortable to risk what you have. Your government is preposterous, but you won’t do anything.

    The Brexit vote, and the election of Trump, show that you, and the Americans, know it. Yet Remainers, fully anti-democracy, have succeeded in thwarting the will of the people.

    In the U.S., the Democrats are openly anti-democratic, rejecting Trump’s election. The U.S. is in a little better position than the UK, with Trump supporters holding off the Democrats. Mueller, Electoral College, Russia! are not the end of it.

    Elections – democracy – depend on each side accepting the outcome of votes. The UK and the US are losing that acceptance. Hence losing democracy.

  20. Firstly I think that much Conservative support comes from people looking for a party to oppose Labour. And vice versa.
    If Lab and Con are running neck and neck they will squeeze out other parties. If one or the other is comfortably ahead then its supporters might desert to another party if one is available. And the third party needs to be growing, as UKIP were up to the referendum.
    I note that at Newport UKIP doubled their vote from the GE, with both Lab and Con each losing about 10,000. Could be a revival for UKIP, could be a flash in the pan. We’ll have a better idea after the locals and Europeans which I assume will now take place.
    It’ll be interesting to see how the Brexit party does. My bet is that it will take more votes from Con than Lab, whereas UKIP will from now do the opposite. And we will find that support is not evenly spread any more, giving both parties a better chance of gaining MPs.
    Both parties will need policies to enact after independence.

  21. “It’s already too late. The people should have risen against the government. Y’all are too decadent to do it. You are all too comfortable to risk what you have. Your government is preposterous, but you won’t do anything.”

    And you’re any better in the US? You have the biggest spying operation on the planet monitoring every move of every US citizen and – crickets. You have corrupt politicians (cough Hilary cough) selling access to State decisions and secrets to foreign powers and – crickets. You have a police force that is now a virtual paramilitary occupying force that shoots anyone who so much as looks at them funny, and – crickets. You have police forces using civil forfeiture as a way of raising revenue on totally innocent people and – crickets.

    You all think you’re Clint Eastwood and John Wayne, when in fact you just as pussified as the population of every other Western so called democracy.

  22. @Lockers

    “Words are words, promises are promises. The only thing that matters are actions”

    Yes. But the question you have still avoided is where do you go otherwise that can *productively* change the situation?

    The merit of the conservatives is that a greater proportion of them have voted to support a proper Brexit than any other relevant party present in the commons (The DUP have a better record but they aren’t putting up candidates in Grimsby, unsurprisingly). That’s certainly damning them with faint praise, sure.

  23. I’ll be spoiling my ballot with a red pen at the locals. This year it’s only the District Council, and it’s usually a Con-Lab split with Con always getting in. Hard to tell whether the spoiled ballot count will rise significantly. Most people probably see it as ‘not really the thing to do’, and stay away instead if they don’t like either candidate/policies. If there is a large uptick in spoiled ballots then it might give them pause.

    As for a GE, our MP is a junior minister, definite remainer and has supported May throughout, as you might expect. Also the constituency has been Con forever with a large majority. However, unless there is a Brexit-supporting candidate I shall be spoiling my ballot paper again. As for the European elections, if we do get to vote I sincerely hope that Nigel’s people & UKIP agree not to stand against each other & come to an amicable agreement on candidates.

  24. “Probably the most sensible thing tactically would be to stay in or join the Conservative party, which is the only sensible party with leave as its stated policy and some actual level of real leave support in its parliamentary party. Try to move the policy from the inside like Momentum did with Labour. Votes for the Brexit party etc. to be used as external pressure in non-GE elections where FPTP is less of an obstacle to representation perhaps.

    Thoughts welcome ”

    Some things are so rotten that nothing good can be made of the parts and the whole has to be condemned to the flames and you make a new start. Next year we will have had a decade of ‘conservative’ government since 2010, and what do we have to show for it that is in fact at all conservative? We have more taxes, more public spending, more quangos, more waste, more pointless nanny state interference in the private lives of the public. We have less freedom, more control, we are well on our way to being a police state. We are about have a ‘conservative’ government about to attempt to control access to internet porn for f*cks sake! Michael Gove prattles on about Green boll*cks all the time and wants to ban wood burning stoves. Plastic bags are taxed or banned, sugar is taxed. None of the Labour nonsense of 1997-2010 has been repealed. Not one bit. The Equality Act, the Climate Change Act, not only left in place but actively promoted as well. Then there’s immigration which is running as fast as it ever has, despite 10 years opportunity to do something about it.

    Why the f*ck should anyone vote Tory, if they are opposed to all the above? Brexit is just the diarrhoea icing on the sh*tty cake, whereby the majority of the Tory party is going against its own manifesto, and the vote it took to enact A50, and is p*ssing in the faces of its own members, voters and the 17.4m who voted to leave the EU.

    Face it, the Tory party is done, it no longer represents a single thing that it used to, and is now a Left wing party of the Establishment elites.

  25. Oblong,

    “Probably the most sensible thing tactically would be to stay in or join the Conservative party, which is the only sensible party with leave as its stated policy and some actual level of real leave support in its parliamentary party. Try to move the policy from the inside like Momentum did with Labour. Votes for the Brexit party etc. to be used as external pressure in non-GE elections where FPTP is less of an obstacle to representation perhaps.”

    Absolutefuckinglutely not.

    Did you miss the part where the party in Beaconsfield voted to deselect Dominic Grieve and the government ministers all gave him their support, said they would override the decision and people like Osborne said that the local group there should be kicked out?

    At a local party management, MP or council level, there are not large numbers of people itching to go Full Thatcher and frustrated by May. They are mostly like May. They support big government and big spending. The only reason they reduced spending is because the country was broke, not because they are ideologically opposed to big government.

    And yes, there’s a few people like Hannan, Truss and Raab, but they’re the exceptions.

    Join the Conservatives and you get one single piece of real power: to choose between 2 leaders selected by the MPs in parliament at a leadership election. That’s it. If one drops out like last time, you don’t get it. If they pick two shitty One Nation MPs, that’s your lot.

    I’ve been a member for 2 years and my membership has a few more months to run, but there’s no way I’m going to rejoin. I’d rather work for a party that I’m enthusiastic about, even a bunch of no-hopers rather than feeding the One Nation fuckers in the hope of getting something one day in the future.

  26. Pat,

    “I note that at Newport UKIP doubled their vote from the GE, with both Lab and Con each losing about 10,000. Could be a revival for UKIP, could be a flash in the pan. We’ll have a better idea after the locals and Europeans which I assume will now take place.”

    Actually, they trebled their share of the vote (by-elections are always down compared to generals). And this is UKIP without Farage or Evans (and what moron thinks Neil Hamilton is a good idea?). That 8.6% would be 10+%. Which still wouldn’t win, but the task now isn’t winning elections, it’s scaring the bejesus out of the Conservatives and creating civil war in the ranks. They might be One Nation cowards to a man, but they don’t like losing.

  27. @wat dabney
    “Let’s be honest, if you were in London and some swivel-eyed mohammedan with suspicious wires poking from his back-pack stopped you and asked directions to the Houses of Parliament, you’d give him the taxi fare and send him on his way with a pat on the back.”

    Dunno. I’d be concerned about the fate of the pigeons on the roofs.

  28. “what do we have to show for it that is in fact at all conservative? ”

    Devil’s advcate here… we have a much lower deficit. That means that in fiscal terms we do have a much smaller government than before. We also got more sensible benefits caps.

    Does that balance the political ledger? Maybe not, but the deficit achievement speaks counter to a position of total nihilism.

    “Absolutefuckinglutely not.”

    Why don’t you say what you really think, don’t hold back 🙂

    Ok, I’m not going to argue with much of what you say. But if your only answer is to do nothing else instead, it’s not really that useful.

    You raise a good point about Grieve and responses like those of Osborne (who I’ve always despised). They can treat local associations like that if it’s only one or two of them. They couldn’t sustainbly hold it off if every association was flooded with leavers who were prepared to overhaul the command structures.

    Starting new parties rarely works, maybe once a century. We might be at such a moment, maybe not. But changing major parties from the inside seems to work about every decade or so.

  29. “Devil’s advcate here… we have a much lower deficit. That means that in fiscal terms we do have a much smaller government than before. We also got more sensible benefits caps.”

    They only addressed the deficit because they had to. Brown/Miliband would have done exactly the same thing, because they would have had no alternative either. They just wouldn’t have had the media on their backs calling it ‘austerity’ and going on about ‘Evil Labour killing the poor’ etc, thats something the media reserves for a Tory government, out of past animosity to the hated Thatcher.

    The benefits cap might be the only thing that the Tories have done in the last decade that Labour governments would not have done.

    Thats it.

  30. The main reason for killing the Tories is they’re in the f******g way! You’re not going to get a new party of the centre right while the rotting cadaver of the Conservative Party is a slumped pile of seething maggots pretending to occupy the ground.
    And I sincerely doubt it can be rebuilt from inside. The constituency associations have been content to support sitting MPs & candidates knowing what they were. Presumably because there’s some advantage to be gained by being a toe-the-line member. Those people are still going to be there with their influence & hands on the controls. Conservative with the small ‘c’. Times like these needs revolution not conservatism.

  31. @Tractor Gent.
    Look for the Brexit Party, UKIP or an independent, the latter seems to be the most likely option in a local election. Otherwise spoil your ballot as you suggest.
    @ Bloke on M4. UKIP received twice as many votes. The percentage increase was larger owing to the low turnout.Thing is if UKIP is perceived as growing that in itself will help it grow. I agree about Hamilton.
    And that growth is more likely to be demonstrated in a European election with nothing else at stake, or the locals where there is little at stake than in a General election where the national government is chosen.

  32. Jim, I think we are better off in the U.S. because the people have backed up the vote by supporting Trump.

    People in UK have watched Brexit slip away.

  33. I agree with Oblong.

    One important thing sthat distinguishes us on the right from the teenage marxists on the left is that we tend to be empiricists and deal with the world as it is and not with how we would like it to be.

    The fact that the Tory parliamentary party is so detached from the party as a whole simply means that the party as a whole requires root and branch reform.

    But there is more chance of that happening than of a greenfield new party gaining a majority in a GE. UKIP managed to influence policy after year and years, but only on one nevralgic issue.

    You are right about the disgusting, shocking reaction of the parliamentary party to the Grieve issue.

    But there is a simple reaction to that. Every other remoaner tory MP in a leaver seat needs to be deselected as well. Once there’s 40 or 50 of the cunts facing the job centre after the next GE that will concentrate minds.

    This is a fight the MPs cannot and must not win.

    Wars are won by the grunts on the ground not in fancy offices.

  34. Jim, I think we are better off in the U.S. because the people have backed up the vote by supporting Trump.

    Trump is still in office and deep state coup attempt has failed, at least for the time being. But he really hasn’t been able to deliver on his MAGA agenda, particularly with regard to immigration. The border situation is arguably worse than it was under Obama, since the left wing NGOs are now marshaling all their resources to gets migrants to the border to claim asylum. A wall is not going to stop the asylum scam, Congress needs to take action to fix that and I don’t think anyone expects them to.

    And you still have Jared Kushner pushing big increases in legal immigration, which is not what Trump voters thought they were signing up for.

    If we’re better off than the UK, it’s not by much.

  35. The priority is to keep Corbyn out. I agree with Ecks and Van-Patten, a Corbyn government may be impossible to remove if they imported 5m 3rd world immigrants, reduced the voting age, taxed the rich so they left, etc.

    That means supporting the Conservatives (post May) in a general election. It also means voting UKIP/Farage’s new party in any European elections.

  36. Bloke in North Dorset

    BoM4,

    “Join the Conservatives and you get one single piece of real power: to choose between 2 leaders selected by the MPs in parliament at a leadership election. That’s it. If one drops out like last time, you don’t get it. If they pick two shitty One Nation MPs, that’s your lot.”

    Jonny Mercer is proposing four candidates. He seems to be getting some traction but its probably too late. As he’s everywhere and starting to get some traction I suspect its self-serving but not a bad idea for all that. Still, they could do worse than him.

  37. Sam Jones said:
    “The priority is to keep Corbyn out”

    No, that’s tactics, not objective.

    What we want is less socialism – lower government spending, lower taxes, less State interference, less eco-crap, etc.

    Will we get that from the Conservatives? No; they’ll keep increasing it, just at a slightly lower rate than Labour,

    So the only way to get what we want is to break the Conservative Party – either replace them with a new party or scare them so badly that they seriously reform.

    At the moment I’m leaning towards replace, but I can see the arguments for both sides. But either way, the only way to do it is to vote against them now, even if that damages the short-term.

  38. Oblong said:
    “we have a much lower deficit”

    Lower than we had, but that was going to happen under any government – they just couldn’t keep going at the rate they were.

    Osborne spent even more of our money than Darling’s proposals. True, we don’t know whether Darling would have stuck to his plans, but Brown stuck to his 1997 spending commitments and regarded it as important that he did so, so I think there’s a good chance we’d have had lower spending, and a lower deficit, under Darling than Osborne – and certainly not significantly higher.

  39. The Remainer’s (inc May) schemes could still come to nought (talks with Labour cracking up, some EU nation says bollix) such that we leave the EU soon without compromise.

    Keep up the shouting and noose swinging, yes; but there’s not much point in planning for the future of conservative politics until we know that outcome.

  40. Sam Jones. The priority is to keep Corbyn out. I agree with Ecks and Van-Patten, a Corbyn government may be impossible to remove if they imported 5m 3rd world immigrants, reduced the voting age, taxed the rich so they left, etc.
    Absolutely. If Corby and his Commie mates get in they will cling to power like a superglued limpet. And the ‘Establishment’ and civil service will go along with them initially cos they all hate the Conservatives and imagine they’ll be the ones still in charge; once they realise their mistake it’ll be far too late.
    I think the prospect of Corbin, McDonnell, Milne et al gaining power is terrifying. Still, half of me wants to see end of the Tories cos that’s what must happen. But maybe not when Labour is infiltrated by Stalinists.

  41. @Jim April 5, 2019 at 1:53 pm

    Next year we will have had a decade of ‘conservative’ government since 2010, and what do we have to show for it that is in fact at all conservative? We have more taxes, more public spending, more quangos, more waste, more pointless nanny state interference in the private lives of the public. We have less freedom, more control, we are well on our way to being a police state. We are about have a ‘conservative’ government about to attempt to control access to internet porn for f*cks sake! Michael Gove prattles on about Green boll*cks all the time and wants to ban wood burning stoves. Plastic bags are taxed or banned, sugar is taxed. None of the Labour nonsense of 1997-2010 has been repealed. Not one bit. The Equality Act, the Climate Change Act, not only left in place but actively promoted as well. Then there’s immigration which is running as fast as it ever has, despite 10 years opportunity to do something about it.

    Why the f*ck should anyone vote Tory, if they are opposed to all the above?

    +1 , no +100

    Osborne had a golden opportunity to slash the state in 2010 where every time Left whined he could wave Byrnes’ “There’s no money left” note at them. He did the opposite: more tax, more spend, more borrow. Cnut.

  42. They might be One Nation cowards

    Actually they are No Nation cowards. I’d settle for a One Nation actually interested in and committed to Brexit. Instead we have…what? Non-entities terrified of the EU but who also instinctively despise their own side and have an unerring instinct for putting the ball in their own net, from any position on the field.

  43. I’ll be brief.
    I’m a Leave supporting conservative activist and former councillor. In the next few election I plan to do the following:
    – do zero on the street campaigning
    – support the part at the local elections – they are doing a good job locally
    – support The Brexit Party at the Euros – guess that about 5-10 million will do the same
    – support my strongly Leave MP at the general election

    This seems logical to me.

    Btw there’s no fundamental problem with the Conservative party. Actual members support hard brexit by about 50-75%. We just need to kick out the Remain candidates \ MPs and all is restored.

    Comments appreciated.

  44. Btw there’s no fundamental problem with the Conservative party

    I do not agree. As Jim points out above, there is only a fag paper between what the Tories have done since 2010 and what Labour would have done in their place. Getting rid of 40 remainers will not change that.

    Someone mentioned Corbyn opening the floodgates to 5m 3rd world immigrants – I wonder how many 3rd world immigrants there have been since 2010?

  45. I feel like a French peasant ca. 1788, confronted by a be-silked Bourbon telling me I’ve never had it so good and at least there’s cake.

    In short, I feel mutinous.

    Sack and burn the temple. Reset the board. To the fainthearts: yes, I know. I also have things to lose. But this is epochal, and it’s been decades coming. You won’t suppress it, so let’s get it over with.

    My only quibble is whether the civil service and the EU allow Corbyn to do his filthy cathartic work.

    I’m rather ashamed to find that I continue to care for this country. It scarcely deserves it.

    As you were.

  46. “It may be too close to call.”

    You’ve passed the tipping point already, like us. The State apparatus is already tooling up everywhere to combat ‘domestic terrorism’, which basically means putting down uppity natives. We don’t have guns, but while you do, your police have been kitted out better than many country’s armies, so you’ll have no luck taking them on either. We are all screwed in that respect. These Global Elites are not stupid, they know their behaviour is going to p*ss off the public sooner or later and they’ve made damn sure they will be ready to crush the inevitable (but ham-fisted) uprisings.

    If we are to win we’ll have to box far cleverer than thinking we are going to riot (in the UK) or shoot (in the US) our way to freedom. No, never fight a pitched battle with a superior enemy, you’ll be crushed. We need to fight (metaphorically speaking) asymmetrically.

  47. Btw there’s no fundamental problem with the Conservative party. Actual members support hard brexit by about 50-75%.

    If about 50% of “actual members” support something less than a hard Brexit, then there is a fundamental problem with the Conservative party. If you’d said 75% plus supported hard Brexit, your statement would have held water.

  48. I’ve considered smashing my local Labour and Tory assn. windows. I discounted it as 1-the local Tories are pro-no deal (MP is ZaNu trash) so what is the point of victimising the largely blameless 2-Smashing ZaNu windows–assuming I get away with it uncaught– isn’t going to fuck Marxist evil. It gives violent scum a chance to claim victimhood.

    I’m looking for active measures to be taken. Non-payment of council tax needs lots involved in it. Willing to go it alone if needs be. Boycott of Euro trash goods for sure. Already dropped Daily Mail and Walkers crisps cos of Linekar and they are “Lays” from Continent. BBC licence stopped. Going to become a large scale nuisance complainer–gum up the works. BBC esp. The more ideas the merrier.

  49. Jim–US gun owners are more than a match for bluebottle shite in a pitched war, military junk or not.Indeed the junk will be assets of the patriots very quickly. The problem is kick off as they will try to get guns a bit at a time.

    Indeed UK vs Cowardly cops is a non-starter for the cops. If everybody motivated turned out we outnumber them 20 to one easy. But we are no longer a tribe as has been pointed out on here. The clods–as seen on TV–could barely buckle a pair of RoP crook car dealers with CCJs agin ’em but 50 relative pukes who’d turn out to fight for them.

    Organising, command and control are the issue. Starting with 20 million acts of individual resistance x as many ideas as we can come up with. Speed cams and ANPRs are expensive and vulnerable. Abandoning old junk cars and rapidly immobilising them at vital traffic points–I won’t go on but we all could etc. Yesterdays HoC shitshower–literal as well as metaphoric gives ideas as does a total sending to Coventry of all traitorous MPs. Tory assn. defiance of CCHQ is another area for action.

  50. “You’ve passed the tipping point already, like us.”

    I think the Trump election is proof we haven’t.

    UK needs a LEADER to pull you back from the edge. Surely within your population you have a Disraeli or Churchill.

    If we have passed the tipping point, it was decades ago, when we accepted fascist control of the people. 615 federal agencies telling us how we must live. I cannot go to the store and buy something that does not have government content.

  51. I think the Trump election is proof we haven’t.

    Trump was effectively elected by past Americans (thank you Electoral College). The majority of current voters, being idiots, voted stupidly. The young voters joining the pool seem to be increasingly majority insane. This is a problem for the future.

    The armed forces, and to some extent the police, seem to be drawn from the sane. This is useful for now.

    The US is way behind the UK in terms of collapse. But you guys can apply yourselves well and could overtake at any moment.

    But I remain ever hopeful for that shiny, scruffy place across the ocean.

  52. “I think the Trump election is proof we haven’t”

    No thats just proof that ‘some’ people have begun to have a vague feeling that everything isn’t right and something needs to be done. But they wouldn’t be able to tell you what, and crucially they aren’t prepared to vote for candidates throughout the system of governance who are prepared to do something. Trump is one man, and as we see can do little to take on the massed ranks of the Deep State arrayed against him, even if he was entirely on board with the problem and wanted to solve it, which I doubt also. I think he, rather like the electorate has a vague notion of the problem, but I doubt he can conceive of the scale of the cleansing process that would be required to change the course of the US supertanker any time soon. And since 2016 the voters have voted in Democrats at the lower levels, thus showing they don’t really understand the problem either.

    I therefore conclude that the vote for Trump was a last chance Hail Mary shot by a frustrated electorate, for reasons they probably couldn’t articulate themselves, and sadly while his heart is in the right place he doesn’t have the broadness of view or desire to really change things, even to the extent he could without legislative support. And that after his term(s) the candidates you are allowed to vote for will revert to the usual suspects, and the powers the State has now are such that any action by the public outside the ‘democratic’ process will be quashed with speed and rapidity.

  53. “… there’s no fundamental problem with the Conservative party. Actual members support hard brexit by about 50-75%.”

    If it were a true grassroots organisation that might be ok, but it appears to be top-down,

  54. @PJF

    ‘Trump was effectively elected by past Americans (thank you Electoral College).’

    You lost me. What does this mean?

    @Jim

    Can’t refute what you say, Jim. But the war is still going on; I remain hopeful.

  55. Gamecock, most voters chose Hilary. Thankfully that was irrelevant because the founders (past Americans) set up the electoral college so that the president is elected by the states rather than the general US population.

    The Dems are keen to destroy that, of course. Isn’t Ohio the latest to hand over its college votes to the coastal population centers?

    As you say, an ongoing war.

  56. K. But I think you have an incorrect assumption. Trump campaigned to win the EC vote (it’s important to know the rules before you play the game).

    Trump did not campaign in California AT ALL. An obvious waste of time. Had the election been on popular vote, he would have campaigned in CA. And more in NY and Illinois. Hillary’s winning more of the popular vote is meaningless. BUT NOT TO DEMOCRATS !!! She got more of the popular vote by not running for the actual election. Democrats are S-T-U-P-I-D, and not too proud to hide it.

    BWTM: Have no doubt that if the EC were ended, and the Democrats eventually lose an election that they would have won with the EC, they will DEMAND the EC be restored. Being a Lefty is all about the present.

  57. @PJF

    3 million more voted for Hillary than the Donald, but 4 million voted Libertarian. If the US didn’t have an Electoral College (unlikely since over 40 smaller states have a strong vested interest in keeping it), you’d either need a transferable vote or a run-off between the top two candidates (like the Frogs) – otherwise elections get decided by which third party candidate(s) choose to run (which can and does still happen, even with the Electoral College). In either case, I reckon Trump would still be President.

  58. @Chris Miller

    3 million more voted for Hillary than the Donald

    and ~6 million were illegal aliens, multiple votes, dead

  59. ~6 million were illegal aliens, multiple votes, dead

    Unfortunately they all count. The margin of fraud is tough to beat.

    Election logistics is something the US desperately needs to sort out. Voter ID, returning to paper ballots, ending early voting and limiting postal votes would be a good start. Unlikely to get past the Democrats, of course, because racism.

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