Erm, yes?

The literature of Ancient Greece and Rome would seem to be unlikely territory for the latest battle in the culture wars.

But a US academic has warned that modern day misogynists and alt-right activists are looking to some of the most lauded classical texts as inspiration for their disturbing ideal of a patriarchy where women are kept firmly in check.

And while their source material may be thousands of years old, Donna Zuckerberg points out they are using 21st century social media to peddle age old notions of women as dominating, controlling and manipulative.

Ms Zuckerberg, whose brother Mark founded Facebook, one of the biggest social media platforms of all, says online misogynists and ‘incels’ (involuntarily celibate men) feel vindicated by writers such as Ovid, the Roman poet, and the satirist Juvenal.

The problem here being that of course we should consider the wisdom of the ancients. Whether we agree with it or not will depend upon our consideration, no?

25 thoughts on “Erm, yes?”

  1. The Meissen Bison

    And while their source material may be thousands of years old, Donna Zuckerberg points out they are using 21st century social media to peddle age old notions of women as dominating, controlling and manipulative.

    From which it follows that wax tablets should be used to express ideas rooted in the classics while the twatosphere is the unique preserve of the woke warrior.

  2. Warning signs the kids are “alt-right”:

    * Interested in history and culture
    * Into physical fitness and outdoor activities
    * Biased towards meaningful, monogamous relationships with the opposite sex
    * Sceptical of the entrenched power of large corporations
    * Spread patriotic and pro-democracy memes

    Terrifying, eh?

  3. I can see why it might be worrisome to an ideology whose intellectual greatest hits’ were written by people in the 1970s who liked avacado… the colour not the fruit.

  4. …says online misogynists and ‘incels’ (involuntarily celibate men) feel vindicated by…

    That’s the second time I’ve seen a leftie woman lump “incels” in with specific disapproved groups. “Involuntarily celibate men” covers a vast range; a range I suspect includes many nerdy, woke lefties who don’t happen to own social media companies.

    Or am I missing some subtle distinction only visible to those with purple hair streaks?

  5. Incels are the male equivalent of those 30-something women who endlessly moan about there being no good men around. Their problem, as with the incels, is that they refuse to accept their own sexual market value.

    Both groups could easily find someone if they had a more realistic appraisal of their own value to the opposite sex.

    Or they could go pro. There’s really no excuse for ‘involuntary’ celibacy.

    Still, good to see that the male pretend-incels are at least educating themselves.

  6. The literature of Ancient Greece and Rome would seem to be unlikely territory for the latest battle in the culture wars.

    No, it has been for years, the Left made it so. Being totalitarians, there are no ‘territories’ which are unlikely to be battlegrounds.

  7. Like those blindfold tests for Coke and other drinks, you could swap the URLs and look and feel of articles in the Telegraph and Guardian these days and you would struggle to tell which was which.

    The Guardian is loosing money at a colossal rate, what makes the Telegraph think there is a business opportunity here?

  8. PJF – The Incel Menace started when Elliot Rodger killed six people in 2014 as revenge on the world for his inability to get a girlfriend. The incel part of his manifesto went viral with the #woke elect – always eagerly looking for non-Islamic examples of terrorists to prove white men are the REAL baddies.

    Strangely, the Supreme Gentleman’s racial obsession (he was half-Oriental and blamed his parents’ race-mixing ways for his non-sex-having, three of his victims were young Chinese men) was quickly forgotten.

  9. Bloke in Germany

    “Being totalitarians, there are no ‘territories’ which are unlikely to be battlegrounds.”

    Yep. The Dar-al-harb of the Woke Jihad is everywhere they haven’t yet created a safe space.

  10. Bloke in Germany

    Calypso! Homer must fall!

    But isn’t Harry Potter also a PWHCM (privileged white heterosexual cis-male)? Rowling must fall!

  11. Never mind the classics, wait until the incels discover Islam. They’re made for each other.

  12. “the ‘Guardian’ was boasting just yesterday that it had broken even…”: ah yes, I saw it boasting about its “trust fund” .

    Two questions:

    (i) Is it trying to imply that The Scott Trust Ltd is a trust when it is, in fact, a limited company? (The clue is in the name.)

    (ii) If having a trust is a jolly good thing, why do Gruaniad journalists routinely sneer at ‘Trustafarians’?

  13. @ Steve 10:17 am, to add to your list:

    In favour of freedom of speech.
    In favour of allowing people to live and let live.
    In favour of not twisting the language so that it means the diametric opposite – i.e Antifa actually means the modern version of the British Union of Fascists and so on…
    Capable of disagreeing without resorting to violence or de-platforming opposing views.
    Not triggered by someone saying something they don’t agree with.

    We could go on and on here…

  14. Cultural ad hom.

    None of this CM sh|t refutes arguments; it is a personal attack on their opposition. The intent is to devalue – to dehumanize – their opposition. Not only does that allow them to ignore your argument, it allows them to kill you. Sawer’s article is violence.

  15. The Meissen Bison

    It’s surprising that Ovid’s Metamorphosis isn’t grist to the intersectional mill!

  16. Is it just me, or does “Incel” as a label sound more like “Intentionally Celibate” rather than “Involuntary”?

    I think it’s because of the sound of the “t” in “intentionally” rather than the “v” in “involuntary” – “Int-Cel” fits the sound, whereas the actual term needs a sharper cut-of to “In-Cel”, leaving the “In” part undefined.

    Nothing to do with the politics, just the sound, but whenever I hear it I tend to think of the wrong meaning first.

  17. to peddle age old notions of women as dominating, controlling and manipulative.

    Couldn’t be that women are these things… Oh no.

    A moment’s thought explains it. How is a creature that is smaller, slower and weaker going to control another that it depends on for food and protection? By manipulation and control rather than intimidation and compulsion.
    Idiots.

  18. TMB

    “It’s surprising that Ovid’s Metamorphosis isn’t grist to the intersectional mill!”

    Not sure Kafka’s relevant here. Or were you confusing ‘incest’ with ‘insect’?

  19. The Meissen Bison

    Theo – it wasn’t Josef K that I had in mind but the stuff I had to construe as a nipper! Brainwashed by the patriarchy, me.

  20. Just as they achieve the long march through the institutions, converting the humanities into political dogma, social media arrives and men start sharing good advice to men about how to get the best out of women.

  21. Ms Zuckerberg accuses people of being selective.

    The cites one unnamed author as proof of her ascertions.

    Hmmm

  22. @Longrider May 5, 2019 at 12:48 pm

    +1

    Live and Let Live

    “…Behind the demise of the popular pub, though, is another story; one that sits uncomfortably with the vision of multicultural Britain sold to us by New Labour and perpetuated by a chorus of liberal voices. That vision, encapsulated in the establishments’s name — Live And Let Live — died on the night of Saturday, May 26, 2001, when the pub was firebombed and drinkers attacked…”

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