We can hope, eh?May 22, 2019 Tim WorstallEuropean Union39 CommentsEU facing ‘existential risk’ from nationalists warns Emmanuel Macron as he wades into European election campaign previousLetter in The TimesnextHow unlike feminists to ignore facts 39 thoughts on “We can hope, eh?” MC May 22, 2019 at 7:37 am Ace. Bring it on. his rivals – chief among them Marine Le Pen, leader of the far-Right National Rally – had turned the election into a “referendum” for or against his presidency Oh. He’s proper fucked then. The Meissen Bison May 22, 2019 at 8:58 am EU facing ‘existential risk’ from nationalists Conservatives facing existential risk from EU. Diogenes May 22, 2019 at 9:05 am Isn’t it odd how little coverage of the gilets jaunes we get in the UK? Diogenes May 22, 2019 at 9:12 am https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-05-20/yellow-vests-france-six-months-struggle From personal experience, very few people voted for Macron because they thought he would be a good pres, it was out of distaste for Le Pen. A rerun now would be interesting Tony McRush May 22, 2019 at 9:22 am The Brexit Party is a contradictory fallacy. It is run like a tyranny by a Donald Trump supporting right wing fundamentalist who has right wing values on health, education, poverty, taxes, social justice, devolution, gay rights, feminism, housing, the welfare state, and the state and private sector. Yet then they claim that left wing working class people should vote for them because the European Union Parliament has no power over any of these issues to any great extent, so they do not have to worry about Farage taking politics to the right. Then when talking to right wing voters the Brexit Party claims that the European Union and European parliament ha a total control over Britain, that means we are no longer an independent country. These two arguments are fallacies, that are contradictory to each other. But no one in the Brexit Party can challenge the Brexit Party, as everyone is appointed by Farage. They are puppets of his control. Chris Miller May 22, 2019 at 9:23 am Exactly, Diogenes. I frequently have to point out, to those who claim Macron won with a huge majority, that: 1. He only got one in four votes in the first round, despite a vicious (and largely fake news) press campaign against his main, ‘conservative’ opponent (against whom, if he’d had to face him in a run-off, he’d almost certainly have lost). 2. On the second round, one in three French voters thought even Marine would make a better President. Neither of these two facts constitute a ringing endorsement, even before his stunning incompetence became obvious. Tim Worstall May 22, 2019 at 9:41 am Just to pick one of those out, gay rights. Back when I worked for Ukip and Nigel we all worked very hard indeed to get the first trans MEP – from the UK at least – elected. And we did it too. Next election at least one of the winning candidates was gay. That’s not a party nor party leader who could be described as a right wing fundamentalist in the meaning you’re using now, is it? Mr Ecks May 22, 2019 at 9:42 am McTurd–First let me greet you–fuck off remainiac troll. With the formalities out of the way it is likely Farage has the simple idea of creating an organisation that will be able to exist dispute free long enough to get us the fuck out of the EU on decent–pref WTO Rules. He has created the structure to avoid –for a long enough time to achieve the goal–in-fighting and ego/organisational agro. Might make it a one man show. Don’t care so long as the EU and remainiacs measure their length in the gutter. So nobody who cares about freedom or our country , which obviously is not you Troll Tony McPuke–should be focused on any other aspect of TBP other than getting Brexit back and punishing EU crawling scum whatever they are or wherever they are found. May you receive every possible defeat and reverse to whatever rotten and verminous leftist and EUsucking plans exist in your supposed brain Toni. wat dabney May 22, 2019 at 10:02 am Tony McRush, I’ve never understood why so many people take the time to spew out strawman arguments on the Internet. I mean, in the time it took you to type in that load of complete bollocks you could have done the washing up or cut your toe nails. Win-win. Tony McRush May 22, 2019 at 10:26 am Nigel Farage was against gay marriage, and made a big play on it in the elections. He took a lot of conservative party members by boasting of his campaign against gay marriage. I support gay rights. Mr Ecks – Wow. What a polite man. You really have made your point very well. LOL. It is great that someone as polite as you, would get involved in politics, and add to the political discourse with your polite, friendly and well mannered views. LOL. I am recommending my daughter marry you, as you are so polite and well mannered, LOL. LOL. I am being sarcastic. Wat. It is not a straw man argument to point out that the Brexit Party are being manipulative with the public and are askinf for the public to back them on the basis that the EU has no power over anything, while at the same time claiming to another group of voters that the EU runs the UK like some sort of tyranny./ Which one is it. Does the European Union parliament have total power over us or no power over us. Answer the question? Now do the eurosceptics think the EU, has total control over the UK or no control over the UK. Which one is it? Steve May 22, 2019 at 10:39 am The top Brexit Party candidate in Scotland is blacker and gayer than Stedman from Five Star. Second placed candidate is a mumsy Eastern European lady. Polls are suggesting they both have a great chance tomorrow. TBP is handily beating Labour and the Tories in Scotland, though they’re still some way behind the SNP. Nige really sucks at this “right wing fundamentalist who has right wing values on health, education, poverty, taxes, social justice, devolution, gay rights, feminism” lark, eh? Lurker May 22, 2019 at 10:41 am @Tony McRush “Now do the eurosceptics think the EU, has total control over the UK or no control over the UK. Which one is it?” Why the binary choice? What about too much control or too little? And if the EU has no power over anything then we can surely roll back laws and regulations applied here due to the EU? Also if the EU has no power over anything we can make our own trade deals! All things the leave group is for, so are you for leave? MyBurningEars May 22, 2019 at 10:47 am @Tony Isn’t that contradiction one of the strongest reasons to leave the EU? So long as the parliament has few powers compared to the commission or council, and such little independence eg to draft and bring forward its own laws like any other legislature I can think of, the whole thing is profoundly undemocratic. But any attempt to fix the lack of democracy requires a large shift in power to the centre, and a reduction in the role of the member states. Most Brits regard the EU as largely a trade deal, not some sort of federal post-nation-state destiny, with the bulk of the political stuff being seen as something we just have to put up with in order to get the trade benefits. But in the long run – and not so long that we’ll all be dead beforehand – the EU is either going to become increasingly federal or increasingly undemocratic, and could well do the dirty double, but there’s no way for it to reverse both of those trends. Swabby May 22, 2019 at 10:55 am Tony Rush There is no ‘left-wing working class’. All lefties are wealthy middle class morons who’ve got it into their heads that being poor is oh so cool and ‘earthy’ and think they’ll be classed as plebs if they spout about ‘Fatcha’ and ‘duh klass sisstum’ day in day out. These same bastards apparently so concerned with the ‘plight’ of the workers don’t mind putting said people out of a job by employing cheap foreign labour as cleaners and builders. Then, when the working class dare object, then we see it don’t we? The workers have objected to a group higher on the Victim Scale! Now suddenly it’s fine to bully and despise them as they’re so waythist and that aren’t they? Working-class people have what you would consider ‘right-wing’ views, i.e. ones based on common sense that would’ve been utterly normal for most of human history. They only vote Labour because their parents and grandparents did and the party reinforces the sinister myth that they’d be a ‘traitor’ not to, by acting as if class is the same as tribe or race, not entirely changeable. If Labour stood on a policy of gassing everyone who voted for them the worst result they’d have is coming second, because people are so browbeaten that they’re ‘the workers’ party’ even when stuffed with privately-educated cretins. By the way, why do you fall back on the old scare tactic that ‘right wing’ is evil whilst ‘left wing’ is kindly and decent? Left wing nonsense has only really existed since the late Victorian era and yet it’s already murdered more than 100 million and still causes mass suffering across the world. But it cares eh? Bloke no Longer in Austria May 22, 2019 at 10:55 am Tony McRush Nicky Campbell on Radio5Remain asked Farage during the bill’s progress whether he opposed gay marriage. He answered that he had no problem with it, but he was concerned by the inevitable lawsuits and persecution of churches or institutions that refused to marry gays. As it turns out they haven’t materialised, except for those civil servants who couldn’t bring themselves to officiate have been sacked. Mark May 22, 2019 at 11:01 am @Tony McRush I would posit that the fundamental sovereignty of this country is a somewhat higher priority than gay marriage. The European “parliament” probably has no power over the shithouses in their own building. This is superstrawman. The politburo makes the rules, the “parliament” rubber stamps them. Simples. It’s the treaties that gives said politburo power over us isn’t it? So why elect Nige and his homuncili to this pointless talking shop? To cause as much trouble as possible and to make the relation ship between the politburo and their homunculi crystal clear (not that it isn’t crystal clear to anybody with an atom of critical faculty but some people do need persuading it would seem) Pat May 22, 2019 at 11:13 am I’ve noticed across Europe that parties described as right wing have mostly working class support. What left wing working class? The left are middle class, with a few aristocrats for savor. Steve May 22, 2019 at 11:14 am As it turns out they haven’t materialised There’s been a few, eg: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-45789759 Also the odd malicious gay couple scouring the country for elderly Christian B&B owners to be oppressed by. But I reckon the reason we haven’t seen American-style barratry is there’s no financial incentive for it. Yanks routinely sue for millions of dollars, British courts might award you 20p and a packet of Rainbow Drops. Bloke no Longer in Austria May 22, 2019 at 11:29 am Oh yeah Steve, I know about the cakes and B&B stuff, it is largely Stonewall making trouble and the supine and craven authorities supporting them. And anyway, thanks to devolution there isn’t any such marriage in NI. What i mean is that (to my knowledge) no pair of gayers have trolled up to the Temple of the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch and demanded to be married and then sued when turned away. Mr Ecks May 22, 2019 at 11:42 am Tony=Meiac=Jesus. When under what was most likely the Chemical Cosh the loon was capable of cod-politeness. Not usually for such long paragraphs but they may have upped his meds. Rob May 22, 2019 at 12:09 pm EU facing ‘existential risk’ from nationalists warns Emmanuel Macron An unusual instance of an internationalist progressive type using the word ‘existential’ correctly. And let’s just pass over the French saying this, the most nationalistic country in the EU. They do absolutely nothing which doesn’t also advance their national interests. Our political class cringes, smiles nervously and says “well, they are French” as if that explains anything before moving onto their next lunatic project to dismantle the country. Lockers May 22, 2019 at 12:23 pm @Tony As a gay Brexit party member (ex-Tory) who has been aware of the things you say (as well as the context, of course – very importantly), I can say: I don’t give a shit. I really don’t. In case you were under any misapprehension, you don’t speak on my behalf. And your idiotic clutch of straw-men-in-a-post holds no water for me. You really, REALLY don’t get it do you? Good. Keep on not getting it, and you and your type can carry on recruiting into the Brexit camp, and hardening our stance. Keep it up. Do more of it – publicly. Seriously 😉 Stonyground May 22, 2019 at 12:27 pm Regarding the Labour party, isn’t it obvious that a party that claims to represent poor people has no choice but to keep them poor? Steve May 22, 2019 at 12:28 pm BnliA – Temple of the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch A++ Would look at the bones They do absolutely nothing which doesn’t also advance their national interests. I reckon this is overstated. If the Frogs followed their own interests, Paris wouldn’t be a depressing Afro-Arabian colony. The yellow vest protests, which are still ongoing, were provoked by a number of issues, but principally the French government’s decision to sabotage their own people’s living standards. So despite already being the lowest carbon major economy in the world, thanks to de Gaulle’s nuclear power plants, the boss frogs decided that was no excuse for not epatering la bourgeoisie. Therefore, they decided on a cunning plan to simultaneously shut down huge swathes of their power generation capacity, while hammering the little people with green taxes. None of this serves any sort of Froggy national interest, though it probably can be explained in cod-Marxian terms of a parasitic ruling class waging econo-demographic war on its own host population. Lockers May 22, 2019 at 12:40 pm I started to write a good fisking of ‘Tony’ but you know what – it is a waste of time. What is worth saying is this the following. I’m going to be a total right-wing bastard right now and say: I think Tony is a bit low IQ and low information. Like most Remainers I meet. Seriously. Remainers are a bit like Social Justice Warriors. Remainers project. They used to keep saying that leavers are low IQ, low information. You still here it (but less I think). However, in my conversations with Remainers (or, those that allow one) – without exception – where I have finished dismantling all their arguments and then ask them “honestly – what is your REAL reason for wanting to stay?” and they reply (genuinely, without exception) “my life is OK as it is and I don’t want to rock the boat”, it’s become clear to me that the IQ and information problem is on the other side. They know this and have to project it onto Leavers. As I say Tony: keep it up. Diogenes May 22, 2019 at 12:57 pm The problem with “Tony ” and most Remainers I talk to is that they are not very good at noticing things. A lot of them think that the EU is Europe and look puzzled when I ask which continent Russia, Norway, Serbia and Switzerland are on. “Tony” seems to think that the EU is the EU parliament. He is either one of these confused people or seriously thick. I know which one I would bet on. Dongguan John May 22, 2019 at 1:17 pm Remainers are managerial types. They like things ticking over and no big upsets where they might be required to use some initiative. Leavers are entrepreneurial types who see change as an oppertunity to do better. Problem is that since Thatcher we’ve had nothing but boring managerial types in government and the civil service, who appear to have taken over, naturally are. Personal annecdote: I work for a notified body who were terrifed about Brexit for obs reasons and to be fair we immediately brought in contingency plans to deal with it. My comments about how this could be a great oppertunity for us to help set UK standards and do really well in a market of 60m were ignored. MC May 22, 2019 at 2:27 pm It is not a straw man argument to point out that the Brexit Party are being manipulative with the public and are askinf for the public to back them on the basis that the EU has no power over anything, while at the same time claiming to another group of voters that the EU runs the UK like some sort of tyranny. That’s not even a straw man argument. It is just utter lackwitted bollocks. MC May 22, 2019 at 2:35 pm @Steve – re the French, their national interest and acting in it. It is tempting to think the French establishment is happy to leg over the untermensch for its own advantage plus shits and giggles, but it is not even that. The “liberal” European establishment ideology is essentially a death cult. We have childless leaders intimidated by even the ruins of the culture they inherited, so they want to burn it all down in a fit of self-hatred. They expect and want Europeans to die out and be replaced by the primitive cultures they fetishise. Now, I don’t mind that Macron wants to be botty-raped into oblivion by the Algerian Olympic weightlifting squad, but I wish his death wish wasn’t inflicted on the entire country. Andrew C May 22, 2019 at 2:38 pm It should also be remembered that Remainers have a strange body odour that attracts mice, rats and other vermin. Bloke on M4 May 22, 2019 at 2:46 pm Tony McRush, “It is run like a tyranny by a Donald Trump supporting right wing fundamentalist who has right wing values on health, education, poverty, taxes, social justice, devolution, gay rights, feminism, housing, the welfare state, and the state and private sector. Yet then they claim that left wing working class people should vote for them because the European Union Parliament has no power over any of these issues to any great extent, so they do not have to worry about Farage taking politics to the right.” There isn’t a “left wing working class”. The left wing are parasites. People who want more money. Either because they want to sit on their arse watching Trisha, or to have overpaid government jobs. I’ve worked in factories. Lot of UKIP/Farage supporters in factories because the working class, the people who put together cars, parking meters or go out and fix air conditioners absolutely hate the freeloading of the left. They come home to council estates where the guy upstairs is doing fuck all, and still getting by. Pcar May 22, 2019 at 7:06 pm @Tim Worstall May 22, 2019 at 9:41 am Didn’t know that, thanks Nikki Sinclaire looks like Widders https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2015/01/10/did-you-know-katie-hopkins-once-backed-the-uks-first-trans-mep/ Pcar May 22, 2019 at 7:42 pm Breaking News Andrea Leadsom has resigned https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/1131267572463226882 Pcar May 22, 2019 at 7:45 pm https://twitter.com/andrealeadsom RichardT May 23, 2019 at 12:36 am Tony McRush said: “Which one is it. Does the European Union parliament have total power over us or no power over us. Answer the question?” What a silly argument. The EU doesn’t have complete power, but it has a lot, and many of us have decided that it has too much. That power of course varies between different issues, so it is perfectly correct to say that, whilst it has too much power overall, there are various issues that aren’t really relevant in elections to the EU Parliament. (and that’s before we get onto the different powers of the EU Parliament, Commission and Council) Pcar May 23, 2019 at 2:12 am @RichardT @Tony McTroll EU Parliament / MEPs have no power, they”re an advisory body (being kind), not a legislature. MyBurningEars May 23, 2019 at 9:37 am @Pcar Right. But giving the “Parliament” powers that match its name would be a massive step forward to full political union, whereas letting the power reside with commissioners is undemocratic. Since a general rollback of EU powers is vanishingly unlikely – the ratchet effect applies and there’s one direction of travel only – the future is either more federal or more undemocratic or both. None of those sound like something most Brits would sign up for willingly if thinking about the future. But I think most Remainers are very much status quoists rather than seeing the picture as a dynamic one where membership signs you up to future changes not just the current structure. Jim May 23, 2019 at 5:43 pm Slightly OT, but I think it needs pointing out – the one reason we have not been already railroaded into the ‘Worse than being in the EU as a full member’ WA is that Jeremy Corbyn is leader of the Labour Party. Had any of the Labour leaders preceding him for the last 30 years been in charge they would have signed up with Treason May ages ago and we’d be twisting on the gibbet right now. Yet he has managed to use his Labour vote bloc (in conjunction with the Tory rebels) to prevent the UK suffering that fate (so far). What the overall outcome will be one cannot say, but one has to accept the fact that we’ve got this far without being sold down the river by the crowd of treasonous arseholes that infest the HoC is entirely down to JC. One doubts he’s doing it out of a sudden burst of patriotism, but I’ll take it regardless, like WSC in 1941 finding Stalin has suddenly become his ‘ally’. Pcar May 23, 2019 at 7:39 pm @Jim May 23, 2019 at 5:43 pm Good observation, very true Corbyn has many personal objections to WA as it would hamper his ability to make UK a North Venezuela Leave a Reply Cancel replyYour email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *Comment Name * Email * Website Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment.